SC Rucks Discussion Thread

[Big Sledge #32]

People are avoiding Jamar this year because his byes clash with Sandi, Cox & Mumford. I have always been of the belief of starting to premium rucks in a set & forget fashion. Although there are always viable options at the other end of the spectrum but I doubt many will be able to pick it.

 

[Super Gusto]

And SDR223, just to be clear, I don't give a toss what you do either, but I'm sure you'll forgive me for presenting a few different logical arguments/options rather than simply telling someone their team is shite and they should just start again.
(But thanks for your input.)

Never said that anyones team was shite, just gave some advise which has been useful to me in past seasons.

McEvoy and Petrie may well have great years but it's a high risk, medium reward scenario having them as your second ruckman IMO.

You opinion obviously differs.

As I said - we'll find out at the end of the season.

 

[MrChristo]

I think you missed dlanod's point. If you cash in a cash cow to upgrade a mid price ruck, you're likely to not be getting as much value as upgrading in another area because the ruck you're upgrading won't have risen as much.

For example, you have a $250k ruckman vs a $250k forward. Your mid price ruck say goes up $80k to be $330k and your forward goes up $150k to be $400k. To upgrade your ruck to a premium you're going to need say $200k. To upgrade your forward you're only going to need $100k. That's the difference dlanod is talking about. So not the cash cow used to upgrade, but the actual player you are upgrading.

Mid priced rucks generally don't move up as much as players in other positions which is why picking premium rucks is a safer option.

I do see that part...and I do understand that in general mid-pricers aren't the way to go...
...but I do think that people get a bit wrapped up in thinking they need to have the best player from each postition.

One last example from last year, if you had have picked Ben Hudson for around 300k, instead of Cox (530ish), you would be 'down' a whole 12 ppg in that particular position...
...but would allow you (this year's numbers) to have N. Riewoldt instead of Trent Dennis-Lane.

I'm just throwing it out there that spending a million bucks on 2 ruckmen isn't as automatic as most seem to think.


(SDR223, I didn't mean to imply you had shit-canned other people's teams.)

 

[Ed D]

Yeah true, it's all about team balance and what's going to score you the most points and not burn all your trades. Either way you're going to be wanting to upgrade as little as possible.

 

[dlanod]

There are two exceptions to my theory:
- If you're planning on holding your second ruck for the whole year, e.g. Ben Hudson, as you mentioned. However you're banking on picking which ruck will have a stellar year, which seems to be luck of the draw outside the usual premium suspects.
- This year Petrie and Fraser are almost rookie priced while probably capable of hitting a rolling average of 90+, enough to let them make the magic $150-200k.

 

[MightyMark]

Wow, gone for day and this thread gets interesting. Alot of different opinions. I would have to side with the 2 premium ruck option, myself. As Sledge said, set and forget. Rucks can become a colossal hassle if you have to keep changing them, many good ruckman are notoriously injury prone, so finding a ruckman that can play in at least 19 games at a high level is important for both security and consistency (and let’s not forget sanity). Petrie and Fraser both present fairly good options as second rucks if you are looking to save money. But the risk you are taking doesn't always weigh up against the money you are saving. Both have a history of injuries, Fraser especially, which could present an unwanted problem early on in the season.

To put things in perspective, Jolly is only 366K which is a little over 100K more than Fraser. With no injury concerns he is a proven super coach scorer over the years, against Fraser who has not played a full season since 2006, and wasn’t overly impressive at VFL level let alone AFL.

I have Sandi and Jolly, i’m treating Petrie like a rookie and have him on the bench. Instead of saving money in the rucks and playing Petrie or Fraser on field, I have saved money elsewhere. There are plenty of players around the ground that you could save money on, that provide equal risk, but more reward. For instance Jack Ziebell, Chris Tarrant, Kosi, Stuart Crameri, Chris Masten, Kyle Hardingham, Chris Knights, Ryan Gamble, Robbie Tarrant, are all very cheap, and all capable of increasing both in price and average to the same if not more (probably more) extent. My point is, save money else where, because there is more to be gained.

 

[Impromptu]

Wow some good discussions here.....For me:

(Sandilands, Cox) or (Jolly, Cox)....

Therefore, it's Sandilands v Jolly+$180K

I know Sandilands is a monster (in a good way), but that $180K difference, plus Jolly has the potential to be in the vicinity of Sandilands' score is also attractive...

 

[CatFan79]

I know Sandilands is a monster (in a good way), but that $180K difference, plus Jolly has the potential to be in the vicinity of Sandilands' score is also attractive...

I disagree re:Jolly. Sandilands and Cox are in a league all by themselves.. Set and forget.

 

[ThePezDispenser]

I disagree re:Jolly. Sandilands and Cox are in a league all by themselves.. Set and forget.

I disagree. Sandilands is in a league by himself. Then followed by Cox and Jolly.

 

[MightyMark]

I disagree. Sandilands is in a league by himself. Then followed by Cox and Jolly.

If you have the cash go with Cox, but at 388K Jolly presents great value. I wouldn't expect either to threaten Sandilands no.1 spot but if you had to choose between the 2, a fit Cox should score better than Jolly, and Cox is looking fit.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Whilst Cox is looking fit, you need to ask yourself how will NN have an effect on Cox's SC output. If you say none IMO your kidding yourself.

1 ruckman from a team in premiership contention

1 ruckman from a team in wooden spoon contention

 

[MightyMark]

Whilst Cox is looking fit, you need to ask yourself how will NN have an effect on Cox's SC output. If you say none IMO your kidding yourself.

1 ruckman from a team in premiership contention

1 ruckman from a team in wooden spoon contention

Cox showed enough last year to prove that even with NN he can still score. Not like he used to of course, but if fit he still has to be a highly rated ruckman. I think if he can improve on his output from last year (which given he is fully fit, even with NN there, isn't out of the question) he will still be SC's second best ruckman. He will never score like he used to, but a 90 plus average should be easy for him to acheive, even if his role in the ruck is limited. Like I said IF you have the cash Cox is a better option, but I woulnd't be moving your team around to find the extra coin.

 

[syl]

So Hamish McIntosh is out with an achilles injury. Do you all think that will improve Petrie stocks or be worse for him?

He will need to be the primary ruckman now right?

 

[MightyMark]

So Hamish McIntosh is out with an achilles injury. Do you all think that will improve Petrie stocks or be worse for him?

He will need to be the primary ruckman now right?

Bring on Majak!

Hopefully his body will hold up and North play him predominately in the ruck whilst McIntosh is gone. He will score alot better in the ruck, but there will be question marks over his body.

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Haven't heard of Goldstein?

 

[syl]

I hardly ever see NMFC.

 

[Big Sledge #32]

I disagree. Sandilands is in a league by himself. Then followed by Cox and Jolly.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but I have Cox as a clear number two who can at his best threaten Sandilands hold on the number one spot. Cox is as fit as he has been in years which is a huge deal, as his key weapon is his mobility combined with the fitness to bring out the most in his game since 2008/9. Sandilands hasn't had a great end to the year, breaking down with injury and Fremantle have learnt their lesson. They can't afford to burn out their most important player on their list. So it will probably see a reduction in TOG which will see a small drop in PPG. Although byes may keep him fresh he may also be rested later on in the lead up to finals.

I can see Cox getting within 5 PPG with him on average and could best him overall if Sandilands isn't managed properly and misses games late like in 2010.

 

[sparkyblue]

Some sound logic there Big Sledge. Just can't see Sandi having the monster year he did last year. Seeing him limp around being ineffectual at the end of the season with that knee knack can't have been lost on Freo either. Interesting times ahead.

Taking a big punt and don't think I'll be starting with the big man this year. More than likely going the Cox and Jolly route unless I bottle it over the next four weeks....eek!

 

[chriso1088]

Im going for league win ($$$ involved) so I went with Sandy and Mummy. Both freo and syd have their byes in triple bye rounds when you dont play anoyone in your league so wont have to worry about not having back up. Shouldnt have to burn a trade here either unless injured.

 

[Clunk]

Not that there was much doubt but Zac Smith is confirmed as a lock.

"YOUNG Gold Coast ruckman Zac Smith is over a heel injury and coach Guy McKenna expects him to play every game this season."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/suns-set-to-unveil-young-ruck-star-zac-smith/story-e6frf9jf-1226015213831

 

[Leezorr]

Re: 2011 SC Rucks Discussion Thread

Eade said in the media a couple of weeks back that Cordy will make an ideal sub because of his mobility, so he's a chance of getting games. Fair enough, his TOG will reduce his scoring potential, but getting games, a 35-50 point average and being dirt cheap is all I'm looking for in a 4th ruck - he's looking like a decent option.

The problem is he hasnt played a preseason game yet, which says to me he isnt in line for a round one spot, even as a sub. So unless something changes in the next two weeks i cant really see him being picked.

 

[buttox]

I disagree. Sandilands is in a league by himself. Then followed by Cox and Jolly.

I disagree again. I'd throw Ryder in there as well.

 

[marky53]

I disagree again. I'd throw Ryder in there as well.

Yes most have Sandi as a lock, but its closer competition for R2 this year.

Who is best out of Jolly, Ryder, Cox? ( I have Petri R3 and Z.Smith R4)

 

[ThePezDispenser]

I disagree again. I'd throw Ryder in there as well.

And you're doing that at your own peril.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Re: 2011 SC Rucks Discussion Thread

The problem is he hasnt played a preseason game yet, which says to me he isnt in line for a round one spot, even as a sub. So unless something changes in the next two weeks i cant really see him being picked.

Wasn't suggesting he was in line for rd.1 selection, just that he's one of only a few cheap 4th ruck options likely to get *some* games.

Maybe Rory Thompson will get some games, Maybe Derickx will pick up a few, maybe some other spots in sides will open up like with the current injuries going around, but nobody had mentioned Cordy at all on the thread and most seemed to have missed that Eade said he will play a bit this year, so I thought it was worth mentioning him.