Scary stuff for Whitecross

[Ned Ryerson]

A white male crime shouldn't be an opportunity to deny the prevalence of crimes by certain minorities or gangs.

You mean like bikie gangs, who aren't exactly known for their diversity for the main part.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Did you miss my post that the current government have increased sentences and are increasing police numbers? If you venture away from the Herald Sun you might find out that while Danny ain't perfect that he's at least trying something.

Yeah - great reactive politics by him.

What's the Herald Sun got to do with anything?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yeah - great reactive politics by him.

What's the Herald Sun got to do with anything?

Oh just every time I walk past a Herald Sun masthead they seem to blame him for pretty much everything from crime to their toast being burnt. Bloke has only been in power 2 years - pretty much anything he does is going to be reactive. At least he is doing something.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Also Gun Killings of civilians by police in The USA account for a considerable amount every year. My dad has a few relatives in the US and they say in some states the police can fire at you without warning.....without any justification only on suspicion. They shoot first and ask questions later.

They only shoot first because they are too afraid of being shot themselves
The most sudden movement and they shoot, because they believe the people they're stopping have a gun

I work in town and would be lucky to see any on foot patrol throughout the working week.

There's no point having visable police, as they aren't allowed to do anything. In the USA, they have "move along" laws that mean if people look suspicious, the cops tell them to move, or they get arrested

Here in Australia, someone can be physically assaulting someone, and if the cops don't warn them, let them know if they don't stop they might be arrested, the perps can sue for having their "civil liberties" removed (thankfully it's slowly being eradicated, it was horrible a few years ago though)

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Here in Australia, someone can be physically assaulting someone, and if the cops don't warn them, let them know if they don't stop they might be arrested, the perps can sue for having their "civil liberties" removed (thankfully it's slowly being eradicated, it was horrible a few years ago though)

Really? Wow, someone mustn't have told that to the three uniformed police I saw on Swan Street a couple of years back who intervened when two steroid abusing douchebags got offended when some bloke accidentally cut them off and they proceeded to get out of their car in heavy traffic and start trying to get his door open, and when that failed were trying to smash his windows in. I can assure you those blokes were very quickly subdued.

 

[Lethality]

You mean like bikie gangs, who aren't exactly known for their diversity for the main part.

I didn't really want another example of deflecting towards white males in defence of minorities. There are better and more grown-up ways of discussing the rate of violence by certain groups in Melbourne other than pointing to examples of where white people can be just as bad.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I didn't really want another example of deflecting towards white males in defence of minorities. There are better and more grown-up ways of discussing the rate of violence by certain groups in Melbourne other than pointing to examples of where white people can be just as bad.

I haven't been shy in saying in previous posts where the current problems are coming from in terms of particular communities. To pretend that youth crime is isolated in those communities is just moronic though. As it stands - the only gang I have had the pleasure of living near was a 1% MC and their members were so kind to welcome me to the street by threatening to kill my dogs. I guess their barking was drawing a bit too much attention to the pill press they had running 24/7.

 

[flinchfree]

Also Gun Killings of civilians by police in The USA account for a considerable amount every year. My dad has a few relatives in the US and they say in some states the police can fire at you without warning.....without any justification only on suspicion. They shoot first and ask questions later.

It's hard to believe after many thought there was real hope for improved race relations with the appointment of Obama, who it should be noted also received many conservatives votes wanting to give a chance to something new, for a vision they wanted to believe in too......that things are really really crap right now between peoples of different color.

Not that there hasn't been huge upward mobility for black people, better jobs, better education, greater self belief....they've seen what is possible and many truly are striving for the American dream and succeeding big time.
But less educated white people, or very conservative white people living in very 'white' communities and states through the middle of the country, feel disenfranchised.
So they found a xenophobe to rally behind and now we see an explosion of racist graffiti, violent actions towards people of different ethnicities, and the dumbing down of what should be aspired to.

Reading between the lines of some posters, I know in Australia it's always been tempting to look at the most recent arrivals to the country as the source of our troubles......
I think it's important to make a call to Australians to pull together to solve problems, including intervention in the family homes of those who know their children are out of control, to find solutions that are meaningful.
I remember as a kid growing up in Carnegie, how painful the use of wog was to the kids of Greek and Italian immigrants. When we started celebrating their foods, their colorful cultures, it gave everyone a reason to see more in common with another than what was different.

Keep doing that, and you give new immigrant communities a way to connect and become integrated into the best of Aussie society, segregate them by neighbourhood or attitude and you foster the feelings of rejection, disenfranchisement, and ultimately acting out against the rest of us in frustration and anger and hurt.

 

[threesixpio]

A white male crime shouldn't be an opportunity to deny the prevalence of crimes by certain minorities or gangs.

I agree. And crimes committed by non-Europeans shouldn't stop me from my god-given right to suggest that all the bad whities should go home.

 

[threesixpio]

Was in youth crime for a number of years until around 2010 and in a number of courts when doing it - there are plenty of "bad white kids" and some of them are in gangs too!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

It's hard to believe after many thought there was real hope for improved race relations with the appointment of Obama, who it should be noted also received many conservatives votes wanting to give a chance to something new, for a vision they wanted to believe in too......that things are really really crap right now between peoples of different color.

Not that there hasn't been huge upward mobility for black people, better jobs, better education, greater self belief....they've seen what is possible and many truly are striving for the American dream and succeeding big time.
But less educated white people, or very conservative white people living in very 'white' communities and states through the middle of the country, feel disenfranchised.
So they found a xenophobe to rally behind and now we see an explosion of racist graffiti, violent actions towards people of different ethnicities, and the dumbing down of what should be aspired to.

Reading between the lines of some posters, I know in Australia it's always been tempting to look at the most recent arrivals to the country as the source of our troubles......
I think it's important to make a call to Australians to pull together to solve problems, including intervention in the family homes of those who know their children are out of control, to find solutions that are meaningful.
I remember as a kid growing up in Carnegie, how painful the use of wog was to the kids of Greek and Italian immigrants. When we started celebrating their foods, their colorful cultures, it gave everyone a reason to see more in common with another than what was different.

Keep doing that, and you give new immigrant communities a way to connect and become integrated into the best of Aussie society, segregate them by neighbourhood or attitude and you foster the feelings of rejection, disenfranchisement, and ultimately acting out against the rest of us in frustration and anger and hurt.

My Mum, who was a Scottish immigrant herself, would often talk about the Aussie people she would work with back in the 70s who would bitch and moan constantly about how the Italian and Greek migrants were 'stealing' their jobs - and that she knew numerous Mediterranean migrants who had been happily taking jobs, but not just one but two or three because they were desperate to get ahead and make the most of the opportunities that had been granted to them here. She'd go on to tell me that the whingers were often the laziest co-workers she had and were just annoyed that recent arrivals were working harder and getting ahead. Granted that is just one anecdote - but I always felt it was a funny observation. It's funny that a few people I have worked with or know through association who are fairly dead against immigration are second/third generation Italian, Greek and Eastern European people whose parents or grandparents either immigrated here or came as refugees. Things go full circle sometimes.

As it stands - I've got too many Muslim mates, too many Asian mates, too many black mates who are all good, hard working people that I will always get on the defensive when people want to pigeonhole everyone of a certain background because there is an element amongst them that are being sh*tty human beings. All humans have the capability of being good or bad humans - and numerous people of all persuasions take the path of being sh*t people. Not choosing to tar everyone with the same brush I don't think makes me a bleeding heart or SJW or whatever pejorative the angry-right like to lambast people as. I don't like dickheads - colour doesn't come into it.

I don't hesitate to admit that Apex is predominantly made up of kids from African backgrounds. The reason I bring bikies into the equation is that for every member of the Apex gain there is Deng Adut and for every member of a 1% motorcycle gang there is the non-criminal bikies who donate toys to kids in hospital at Christmas. There is good and bad in every bunch. That is the gamble you take with humanity.

If you want to address the current issues with the Apex gang and talk better rehabilitation programs, better sentencing, more police in those areas - I am all for it. If you just want to use a current issue to lambast an entire community of people - a lot of whom are probably just as angry about the crime - then I could give less than a * about what you have to say.

 

[OzJohnnie]

I seem to remember a discussion recently about keeping politics off the footy boards. Perhaps I misremember.

 

[threesixpio]

There were some great gang break up programs set up in the South East during the 2000s. They worked too. The government cut all of the programs. Too expensive.

......oh wells

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Was in youth crime for a number of years until around 2010 and in a number of courts when doing it - there are plenty of "bad white kids" and some of them are in gangs too!

Nobody denies that
It seems, however, that the penalties are more lenient for "non-white."
That's from news reports, in which minorities might get 6 months probation, whilst the majority gets 6 months juvenile detention. Whether that matches up to actual statistics, I don't know

It's a bit like how aboriginal people have a higher rate of encarceration, but a lower penalty (again, news reports)

 

[threesixpio]

I seem to remember a discussion recently about keeping politics off the footy boards. Perhaps I misremember.

Fair enough. I'll stop. (That said my comments about Youth Crime came from experience in the field but yeah I can get too caught up in debates like this)

 

[threesixpio]

Nobody denies that
It seems, however, that the penalties are more lenient for "non-white."
That's from news reports, in which minorities might get 6 months probation, whilst the majority gets 6 months juvenile detention. Whether that matches up to actual statistics, I don't know

It's a bit like how aboriginal people have a higher rate of encarceration, but a lower penalty (again, news reports)

I'm not sure whether sentencing would alter significantly based on race. But I have no stats to back it up. I cannot recall thinking any Magistrate would sentence differently based on race - other than ones who didn't like minorities but that was also rare.

 

[TazHawk15]

The crims have us all over a barrel.

Lawyers,parole boards and judges seem to pander to them.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I'm not sure whether sentencing would alter significantly based on race. But I have no stats to back it up. I cannot recall thinking any Magistrate would sentence differently based on race - other than ones who didn't like minorities but that was also rare.

It isn't to be harder on a particular race, but to appear to be more understanding
It's the PC agenda, rather than any racist agenda

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Nobody denies that
It seems, however, that the penalties are more lenient for "non-white."
That's from news reports, in which minorities might get 6 months probation, whilst the majority gets 6 months juvenile detention. Whether that matches up to actual statistics, I don't know

It's a bit like how aboriginal people have a higher rate of encarceration, but a lower penalty (again, news reports)

And then you get stories like that young privileged white kid who brutally murdered a homeless bloke who ended up getting no jail time because he was deemed mentally diminished due to his drug usage. It happens across the board.

 

[threesixpio]

Im actually interested in where the stats came from by the way. It would be pretty hard to get these data as names are kept confidential at least in the kid's court.

 

[Davo23]

The crims have us all over a barrel.

Lawyers, parole boards and judges seem to pander to them.

It's a lot more than that, unless you get all your information from the Herald Sun!

One of the problems with the Apex gang is that they nearly all under 18, and quite a few are 14 and 15 years old. This means their cases are in the Children's' Court, where the emphasis is on rehabilitation rather than on punishment. This means that they are always given chances to better themselves, and jail is seen as a last resort.

Many have used up all there chances and are in prison right now.

But please don't read rubbish in the tabloids!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

It's a lot more than that, unless you get all your information from the Herald Sun!

One of the problems with the Apex gang is that they nearly all under 18, and quite a few are 14 and 15 years old. This means their cases are in the Children's' Court, where the emphasis is on rehabilitation rather than on punishment. This means that they are always given chances to better themselves, and jail is seen as a last resort.

Many have used up all there chances and are in prison right now.

But please don't read rubbish in the tabloids!

This is the problem - it's a busy life for most people and you can only grab snippets of the news here and there. If all you watched was the news segments during the breakfast 'news' shows and saw a few headlines on the Hun website then of course you're going to think there are only problems and no solutions or relevant reasons behind the problems.

Decent, informative news outlets with no agenda to push need to be out there putting out good information in a really easy to digest format. Instead of whinging about the raft of fake news out there online - maybe some good folk out there could band together and come up with an idea.

 

[JoeHawk]

If you can afford a hundred grand car then you surely can afford to park it in an area at home that is fully secure and pretty bloody hard to get in to.
Also not stashing your keys is a complete amateur move....you do not hang the keys somewhere in the kitchen.
Good on him for confronting them....yet they still got the car

Are you serious? So should we go hiding our car keys whilst at home just in case someone decides to break in? Touch paranoid?

I'm just relieved Whitecross and the family are safe as these things can often end badly especially if confronted. Trouble is, unless these ratbags have any priors, they'll just end up with a wrap around the knuckles and let go.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hey guys, this isn't the Apex gang thread.

P.s If you weren't paying attention the Porsche was actually stolen by 3 Caucasian deadshits.


Now, can we discuss the actual incident without lots of war and peace novels on the state of immigration and crime in Australia.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I'm genuinely intrigued by what Whitey's lady friend does for a crust - as I know footy players earn decently but I didn't think Whitey would be on 'buy your lady a Porsche' money.