ScHneider, Dempster out Playfair in

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Posts
14,182
Likes
15,166
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
You lost me completely.

There's a lot of other players that underperform more than Dempster had, are much older, on much higher salary and yet they are staying. I'm not going to name names here (though I've done so elsewhere), but if Roos/Ireland really want to solve the problem they claim that they want to solve, then the trades doesn't make much sense.

There are 4 x 28 midfielders in our side that has underperformed in our side this year. Two have a bit of trade value, two doesn't. It would have made much more sense if at least one of the two that has trade value would be traded and one of the two that doesn't to 'retire' and have his salary spread out over say 5 years to ease our salary cap.

If we do that, then our side would have actually gone younger and not older, which is the case we have now. Not only did we trade away two of our 23 year olds, we traded away two of the quicker ones - to 'make our team quicker'.

There's lot of ways to ease our younger players into the team rather than trading away the younger talent, but he's way too protective of the 'older brigade' even when it's clear that they are underperforming or had been over-taken by the youngsters.

Then why have they been traded?

You guys explain to me how on earth you know more then the bloke that delivered us our first p'ship in 72 years.
How?
What is that you have seen in them that the coach that has a record second to none since he has been a coach hasn't been prepared to see for another year?

The group is stale & if you guys don't know how the team works & selects players yet, then you will never get it.
Roos lets the leadership group contribute to decisions. Hell, they are the ones out there busting a gut alongside these blokes & they would pull no punches when it comes to isolating the weak links in the team. You can bet your bottom dollar that the leadership group helped in making the hard call to move Schneids on. The guy WILL be a very good player at the Saints, not sure about Dempster because he just had no awareness in crunch games. Schmidt has more then likely been picked as the one to take the next step.

It was so obvious that we had salary cap issues when Roos came out & said that some p'ship players would be traded. So obvious! I in fact suggested it in a post earlier on. Get to know how the system works guys. This doesn't mean that in a perfect world we wouldn't have kept Schneids or Dempster, but the fact is that Roos & the leaders had to make a hard call, yet at the same time give the two fellas a chance at playing AFL for more then the year or two years they would have played for us. It has obviously been identified that Schneids wasn't going to get any better at the Swans whilst in the current environment & the change will help his career & if anything, bring him & Dempster more money then if he stayed at the Swans.
The way this has been done by Roos is actually ingenious. He has shown them off as p'ship players in order to give them great value, which in turn gets them more money then at the Swans. Many on BF believe that Schneider is a star. I personally have never thought a whole heap of him. He lacks defensive pressure but is one hell of a goal sneak. But there is only one problem. He hasn't kicked enough goals when it's mattered.
You NEED to kick goals as a goal sneek, but at the Swans, when we haven't got the ball, you need to work damn hard to defend.

You guys need to think back at the two times Roos has sent Schneids back to the twos to hone his defensive skills. He can't keep doing for the rest of Schneids career. If Schneids doesn't get it, then he never will. The guy is a good naturally attacking player but we can't carry any more of these style of players. We have two already....................MOL & Nick Davis. MOL can take a freakish mark & kick straight & Davis...............well he is just Nick Davis & actually keeps us in some games with his highly accurate kicking & in fact, wins us games. Important ones. He can't be left out. Watch the games carefully & you will see that their direct opponents (& the Pies were particularly good at it) run off them creating many attacks that punished us.

The day we started getting flogged by a team like Collingwood missing 5 key players & with a first gamer who was foreign to the rules only 6 months prior, was when the alarm bells started to ring for me. And I'm just a bloke who watches anything Swans.

For christs sake, Paul Roos is the gifted coach of this wonderful team. Do you think for one minute he didn't hear those bells ringing loud & clear way, way before someone like me did.

So come on guys! Open your eyes! We've had five wonderful years in finals under this guy. I'm for whatever decision Roos makes, however unpopular it may look to the hoardes!!

Cheers!:)
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

J-swan

Team Captain
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Posts
550
Likes
0
Location
Hills district, Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Then why have they been traded?

You guys explain to me how on earth you know more then the bloke that delivered us our first p'ship in 72 years.
How?
What is that you have seen in them that the coach that has a record second to none since he has been a coach hasn't been prepared to see for another year?

The group is stale & if you guys don't know how the team works & selects players yet, then you will never get it.
Roos lets the leadership group contribute to decisions. Hell, they are the ones out there busting a gut alongside these blokes & they would pull no punches when it comes to isolating the weak links in the team. You can bet your bottom dollar that the leadership group helped in making the hard call to move Schneids on. The guy WILL be a very good player at the Saints, not sure about Dempster because he just had no awareness in crunch games. Schmidt has more then likely been picked as the one to take the next step.

It was so obvious that we had salary cap issues when Roos came out & said that some p'ship players would be traded. So obvious! I in fact suggested it in a post earlier on. Get to know how the system works guys. This doesn't mean that in a perfect world we wouldn't have kept Schneids or Dempster, but the fact is that Roos & the leaders had to make a hard call, yet at the same time give the two fellas a chance at playing AFL for more then the year or two years they would have played for us. It has obviously been identified that Schneids wasn't going to get any better at the Swans whilst in the current environment & the change will help his career & if anything, bring him & Dempster more money then if he stayed at the Swans.
The way this has been done by Roos is actually ingenious. He has shown them off as p'ship players in order to give them great value, which in turn gets them more money then at the Swans. Many on BF believe that Schneider is a star. I personally have never thought a whole heap of him. He lacks defensive pressure but is one hell of a goal sneak. But there is only one problem. He hasn't kicked enough goals when it's mattered.
You NEED to kick goals as a goal sneek, but at the Swans, when we haven't got the ball, you need to work damn hard to defend.

You guys need to think back at the two times Roos has sent Schneids back to the twos to hone his defensive skills. He can't keep doing for the rest of Schneids career. If Schneids doesn't get it, then he never will. The guy is a good naturally attacking player but we can't carry any more of these style of players. We have two already....................MOL & Nick Davis. MOL can take a freakish mark & kick straight & Davis...............well he is just Nick Davis & actually keeps us in some games with his highly accurate kicking & in fact, wins us games. Important ones. He can't be left out. Watch the games carefully & you will see that their direct opponents (& the Pies were particularly good at it) run off them creating many attacks that punished us.

The day we started getting flogged by a team like Collingwood missing 5 key players & with a first gamer who was foreign to the rules only 6 months prior, was when the alarm bells started to ring for me. And I'm just a bloke who watches anything Swans.

For christs sake, Paul Roos is the gifted coach of this wonderful team. Do you think for one minute he didn't hear those bells ringing loud & clear way, way before someone like me did.

So come on guys! Open your eyes! We've had five wonderful years in finals under this guy. I'm for whatever decision Roos makes, however unpopular it may look to the hoardes!!

Cheers!:)

Spot on! :thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:
 

scottwade

Premiership Player
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Posts
4,686
Likes
1,456
Location
around
AFL Club
Sydney
Thread starter #103
Roos lets the leadership group contribute to decisions. Hell, they are the ones out there busting a gut alongside these blokes & they would pull no punches when it comes to isolating the weak links in the team.
And yet the one week that we know the leadership group picked the team the player dropped was Crouch.
A player Roos insists on picking when clearly underdone & underperforming.

It was so obvious that we had salary cap issues when Roos came out & said that some p'ship players would be traded.
If we have salary cap issues how can we afford to trade 2 players in?
Schneider & Dempster certainly would not be in our higher earners and there would, I suggest, be little difference between the overall payments between the 2 players in/out.
If we actually wanted to make savings then players like Crouch & J. Bolton would provide far greater relief.
And retaining quicker players like Schneider & Dempster would make far more sense in Roos 'revised' game plan.


For christs sake, Paul Roos is the gifted coach of this wonderful team. Do you think for one minute he didn't hear those bells ringing loud & clear way, way before someone like me did.

So come on guys! Open your eyes! We've had five wonderful years in finals under this guy. I'm for whatever decision Roos makes, however unpopular it may look to the hoardes!!

Cheers!:)
Roos has helped instil a great culture at the club and his game plan, based around stoppages, contested ball and restricting the opponent's use of the ball, has been successful.

Unfortunately my fear is that he is going the way of Malthouse at WCE in the 1990s. His game plan was not dissimilar, but eventually opposition teams were able to counteract his defensive tactics and a general decline took place and in the 2 years after he left WCE plummeted to 13th & 14th.

Roos claims he will bring more speed to the team to this year and that is why he traded for Mattner. Yet Dempster was probably our second quickest player and Schneider was no slouch in the speed stakes either.

Similarly the 2 trades he has made have made out team older and that is a real worry given the age of our leading players.

Our young hopefuls, such as Barlow, Currie, Laidlaw, D. O'Keefe, White, Bird etc have played a total of 5 games. And as I've said above our best 22 has lost Schneider, but gained Mattner & Playfair, which means one less place for youngsters.

Roos has been a very fine coach for the Swans, but that doesn't make him infallible and there is a big difference between coaching and list management.

So all in all Tedeski I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. :)
 

bigswan

Senior List
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Posts
265
Likes
1
Location
Lower Templestowe
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney
Let's not let the facts spoil a good argument but Currie was in Victoria finishing his VCE, Laidlaw was injured late in the season, O'Keefe played about 4 games in the magoos and was injured, White showed little in the middle of the season and Bird isn't on the list.
 

snappy

All Australian
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Posts
763
Likes
0
Location
London
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
ManchesterCity Napoli SSC
After the initial shock of feeling riped off, im starting to think its not all that bad.. IF and its a big IF, Playfair 198cms, 100kg, can go down back and do the job, were laughing.. I dont know to much about him, but i hope he doesnt go as a KPF, id rather see Grundy given a real chance..
I agree that giving away young players is not the go, but as long as our recent draft pick players get on the park then thats the best out come really..
Who knows why we couldnt off load Jude, Fosie, or retire Crouch, mathews etc.. But at the end of the day if Playfair can play well as a KPD we got what we wanted..
 

FM0226

Team Captain
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Posts
434
Likes
0
Location
in the middle of nowhere
AFL Club
Sydney
And yet the one week that we know the leadership group picked the team the player dropped was Crouch.
A player Roos insists on picking when clearly underdone & underperforming.

If we have salary cap issues how can we afford to trade 2 players in?
Schneider & Dempster certainly would not be in our higher earners and there would, I suggest, be little difference between the overall payments between the 2 players in/out.
If we actually wanted to make savings then players like Crouch & J. Bolton would provide far greater relief.
And retaining quicker players like Schneider & Dempster would make far more sense in Roos 'revised' game plan.




Roos has helped instil a great culture at the club and his game plan, based around stoppages, contested ball and restricting the opponent's use of the ball, has been successful.

Unfortunately my fear is that he is going the way of Malthouse at WCE in the 1990s. His game plan was not dissimilar, but eventually opposition teams were able to counteract his defensive tactics and a general decline took place and in the 2 years after he left WCE plummeted to 13th & 14th.

Roos claims he will bring more speed to the team to this year and that is why he traded for Mattner. Yet Dempster was probably our second quickest player and Schneider was no slouch in the speed stakes either.

Similarly the 2 trades he has made have made out team older and that is a real worry given the age of our leading players.

Our young hopefuls, such as Barlow, Currie, Laidlaw, D. O'Keefe, White, Bird etc have played a total of 5 games. And as I've said above our best 22 has lost Schneider, but gained Mattner & Playfair, which means one less place for youngsters.

Roos has been a very fine coach for the Swans, but that doesn't make him infallible and there is a big difference between coaching and list management.

So all in all Tedeski I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. :)

Great post! Can't find one thing to disagree on at all, have exactly the same thoughts regarding this whole issue. :cool:
 

SOPH_CROSS

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Posts
8,476
Likes
732
Location
FORWARD POCKET
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
THE BIG SOUND WEST OF THE TOWN!
Me 3

still in shock that we lost the both of then its going to take me while to cope
and its probs gonna be more shocking when i see them playing for another team next year
 

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Posts
14,182
Likes
15,166
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Me 3

still in shock that we lost the both of then its going to take me while to cope
and its probs gonna be more shocking when i see them playing for another team next year
So Soph!
Would it make you a happier person to see them play in the twos for the rest of their Swans careers & then nominate for the draft in a few years after they are delisted, leaving us with REALLY sweet F A!

Unfortunately we can't remain stagnant & we have done so in the last few years in order to have another crack at a flag. There's no doubt now that Roos has identified this & if we haven't produced anything in the first 5 rounds in 2008, then you can bet your bottom dollar that Roos will start swinging the axe with the vets. In fact, I reckon you'll see players like Jude Bolton, Crouch, Matthews etc, etc.............having the odd game in the twos, which I'm sure you'll be happier with then trading them to another club for more opportunities.

One thing people forget is that Roos & his staff have set such a high standard at the Swans in what is expected from his players. Even players that are attacking players are required to be just as strong defensively when we haven't got the ball. Elsewhere they might not be required to be as defensive if they are recruited as forwards. This is the category that Schneider fits into. At the Saints he will be a good player I'm sure & then fellow Swans like yourself will keep jumping up & down because he's not playing for us. But everyone has been crying to give the young players a go. Well............this is about to happen. Schneider is gone & Schmidt can now take over. Yes Schneider is young but for the money he would have been on, he wasn't taking the next step as Malceski did rapidly after missing a whole season with a knee injury.

How do you feel about a player like Malceski earning 200K whilst Schneider was on 350K. Explain to Malceski that he can't have a pay rise when it's time to renew, knowing full well that he would get 350K minimum anywhere else at the drop of a hat.
In my opinion, if schneider stayed at the Swans & was worth 350K, then Malceski would have to be given 500K for things to be fair.

Now that is just one aspect of player management & keeping everyone on the list happy. When I have to listen to people like Scott Wade implying that Roos hasn't got any idea about list management. He has alright, but the minute he finally starts to 'manage' the list, some just jump up & down because they're a little uncomfortable with it.
Here's another fact for some of you guys. Once players get to the latter parts of their careers, many are put on performance based contracts, some accept a salary reduction to prolong their careers & many are signed on as a year to year proposition. Crouch, Matthews, Barry, MOL, etc could fall into this category. A few would fall into the next bracket of being paid the fair amount that they deserve, & then there are the ones that are paid a little more in order to not lose them, perhaps like a Jolly!

When you have a player that once we were not prepared to lose, but now, they are not giving value for money, then we have a big problem. Someone has got to go. Throw in the fact that as their coach, you want them to be given every opportunity & at the best salary they can get, then you have a lot more work to do. Roos is only guilty of trying to go that extra step to create the best case scenario for both parties & as I understand things, both players are now very happy with the outcome!

If anyone comes out of this with a bitter taste in their mouths, it would have to be Roosy as he has taught these guys for the last few years & is being forced to move someone on because of the system.

Read his complaints in todays paper regarding the way Carlton has 'abused' the system. He's not a happy chappy. Here he is just trying to deliver success, with consecutive years in the finals & GFs, & he is being abuse by his own supporters because the system has forced him to 'manage' the list.

So basically, the reason he hasn't moved on the older players is because they are reasonably cheap & playing on an oily rag! Great value for money in other words.
It's the 22 - 27 year olds that hurt the team if they haven't taken the next step because many are on their 2nd or 3rd contracts & are costing the club money unless they improve.
Schneider & Dempster unfortunately fall into this category.

Until we can all get our head around the harsh reality of what list management is REALLY about......................Scottwade..................then we'll always be ungrateful to Roos & his fellow staff.
 

SOPH_CROSS

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Posts
8,476
Likes
732
Location
FORWARD POCKET
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
THE BIG SOUND WEST OF THE TOWN!
Look im upset about losing Snides it really sucks and im sure it took alot of thinking for him to leave his 1st club and his brothers behind
but if u want me to pick yes i would want Schneider to stay
but that wasnt the case...
I dont know much about drafting and trading but i know enough to say we let go two very good players and its a shame

the last thing i have to say
with or without Snides and Dempster

next year is make or break for the swans and ill be very interested to see how it pans out

so get back to me next year on this one ok

im still very hurt by Snides being gone
 

scottwade

Premiership Player
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Posts
4,686
Likes
1,456
Location
around
AFL Club
Sydney
Thread starter #110
How do you feel about a player like Malceski earning 200K whilst Schneider was on 350K.

So basically, the reason he hasn't moved on the older players is because they are reasonably cheap & playing on an oily rag! .
Would you like to provide a link, somewhere, anywhere, where you have gleaned this information from?
 

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Posts
14,182
Likes
15,166
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Look im upset about losing Snides it really sucks and im sure it took alot of thinking for him to leave his 1st club and his brothers behind
but if u want me to pick yes i would want Schneider to stay
but that wasnt the case...
I dont know much about drafting and trading but i know enough to say we let go two very good players and its a shame

the last thing i have to say
with or without Snides and Dempster

next year is make or break for the swans and ill be very interested to see how it pans out

so get back to me next year on this one ok

im still very hurt by Snides being gone
I like supporters like you Soph because you bleed red & white & love your players no matter what! Just enjoy watching Schneids & Dempster should they play well at the saints & if they are successfull, we can at least be happy that there was a connection with the Swans from Roos Lyon & the two new recruits. Personally, I think they are both going to have to pull their fingers out in the pre season if Rossy is to give them regular games.
As for the Swans...........well..........we may have to take a few steps back as Brisbane did in order to go forward. That's life! But at least we've tasted the ultimate..........hey Soph!!:)
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Posts
14,182
Likes
15,166
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Would you like to provide a link, somewhere, anywhere, where you have gleaned this information from?
No links mate but rest assured........................................that is how it works!

That is a fact I know!

The actual figures are just an example I used. I'm sorry if you took THOSE for fact.
Would you like to have a guess what the two players may have been on, taking into account that Schneider is into his 3rd contract & Malceski into his second?

And.........................add to that................what you think Malceski would be worth for every $1 Schneider is worth!!
 

SOPH_CROSS

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Posts
8,476
Likes
732
Location
FORWARD POCKET
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
THE BIG SOUND WEST OF THE TOWN!
I like supporters like you Soph because you bleed red & white & love your players no matter what! Just enjoy watching Schneids & Dempster should they play well at the saints & if they are successfull, we can at least be happy that there was a connection with the Swans from Roos Lyon & the two new recruits. Personally, I think they are both going to have to pull their fingers out in the pre season if Rossy is to give them regular games.
As for the Swans...........well..........we may have to take a few steps back as Brisbane did in order to go forward. That's life! But at least we've tasted the ultimate..........hey Soph!!:)
I agree
but still get back to me next year and ill give a better view then
 

liz

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Posts
5,361
Likes
1,719
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Making up ludicrously out of whack numbers for what players are possibly getting paid as a means to "defend" a particular trade doesn't really help the discussion move forward.

Malceski signed a new contract a couple of months ago. I have absolutely no idea what kind of money he is on but I'd be very surprised if it was barely more than 50% of Schneider's current contract.

Putting aside the fact that Schneider is a favourite of many Swans fans - and is probably cherished by some far beyond his rational on field value - the reason some of us are still struggling to come to terms with this particular trade is that Roos came out a week or so ago and said the team needed more run and carry and more speed. The fact that he then traded a player who appeared capable of providing some of that run and carry for the next 7 or 8 years is just a tad perplexing. I think Mattner is a very good get, and had he needed to trade Schneider to get hold of Mattner, it would have been a little more understandable (if no more palatable). But he didn't need to trade Schneider to get hold of Mattner. We could have had them both.

There nothing fundamentally wrong, individually, with Kirk, Bolton, Mathews, Ablett, Schmidt, Bird, Moore, McVeigh. All have something to offer as part of a midfield brigade, even though most are workmanlike. The problem comes with their sameness, specifically in terms of pace. Schneider was never truly part of the onball brigade but he worked effectively around its fringes and provided some of that zip that we want more of - not less of.

And while I think comments that Schneider has stalled a bit have some validity, I think suggestions he had a poor 2007 are overstating things a bit. As someone (Sanecow) posted elsewhere, he contributed over 25 goals and was top 10 at the club for disposals, marks and tackles. He did play a couple of very ordinary games, but he also was BOG - or close to it - in several others.
 

FM0226

Team Captain
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Posts
434
Likes
0
Location
in the middle of nowhere
AFL Club
Sydney
Making up ludicrously out of whack numbers for what players are possibly getting paid as a means to "defend" a particular trade doesn't really help the discussion move forward.

Malceski signed a new contract a couple of months ago. I have absolutely no idea what kind of money he is on but I'd be very surprised if it was barely more than 50% of Schneider's current contract.

Putting aside the fact that Schneider is a favourite of many Swans fans - and is probably cherished by some far beyond his rational on field value - the reason some of us are still struggling to come to terms with this particular trade is that Roos came out a week or so ago and said the team needed more run and carry and more speed. The fact that he then traded a player who appeared capable of providing some of that run and carry for the next 7 or 8 years is just a tad perplexing. I think Mattner is a very good get, and had he needed to trade Schneider to get hold of Mattner, it would have been a little more understandable (if no more palatable). But he didn't need to trade Schneider to get hold of Mattner. We could have had them both.

There nothing fundamentally wrong, individually, with Kirk, Bolton, Mathews, Ablett, Schmidt, Bird, Moore, McVeigh. All have something to offer as part of a midfield brigade, even though most are workmanlike. The problem comes with their sameness, specifically in terms of pace. Schneider was never truly part of the onball brigade but he worked effectively around its fringes and provided some of that zip that we want more of - not less of.

And while I think comments that Schneider has stalled a bit have some validity, I think suggestions he had a poor 2007 are overstating things a bit. As someone (Sanecow) posted elsewhere, he contributed over 25 goals and was top 10 at the club for disposals, marks and tackles. He did play a couple of very ordinary games, but he also was BOG - or close to it - in several others.
:thumbsu: Great analysis/opinion as always. There's really no reason why we can't have both Mattner and Schneider - the only thing I can think of in making such a trade is that Dempster wants a change in scenery while Roos/Ireland rates Moore higher than Schneider and thinks that only one of them can make the side.

The whole salary thing is probably just a 'front' just like Judd turning down Melbourne 'because of its training facilities'.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Posts
30
Likes
0
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
Sydney
It's interesting to note that early in the week, when Schneider was first listed as trade possible, most were okay with that, provided we got value. The likes of Brad Miller, Travis Johnstone, Justin Sherman, Richard hadley etc. The thing that I disagree most with, is the low value placed on the heads of 2 premiership players. As a life long Swannies man, back to the Old South Melbourne days, the team that represented us in 05, from the Coach down, mean the world to me. I know sentiment counts for nothing in real terms, but I think we could have traded a lot better.

Truth be told if we traded Schneider for Sherman and a low draft pick - I would of been ok.

But 2 players for pick 26 - I don't believe we truly strived to get the best deal available.

In an old sort of way, I think it devalues their role in winning a flag just 2 years ago.
 

Liesha

Team Captain
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Posts
419
Likes
0
Location
Penruff
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
South Sydney Rabbitohs
It's interesting to note that early in the week, when Schneider was first listed as trade possible, most were okay with that, provided we got value. The likes of Brad Miller, Travis Johnstone, Justin Sherman, Richard hadley etc. The thing that I disagree most with, is the low value placed on the heads of 2 premiership players. As a life long Swannies man, back to the Old South Melbourne days, the team that represented us in 05, from the Coach down, mean the world to me. I know sentiment counts for nothing in real terms, but I think we could have traded a lot better.

Truth be told if we traded Schneider for Sherman and a low draft pick - I would of been ok.

But 2 players for pick 26 - I don't believe we truly strived to get the best deal available.

In an old sort of way, I think it devalues their role in winning a flag just 2 years ago.
Well said :thumbsu: I would like to think that most Swans fans value our premiership players as much as you have stated. This of course doesnt mean that we cant trade, but the fact is that in the end Schneider and Dempster were basically given away. From talking to other Swans fans this is what has upset people the most.
 

liz

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Posts
5,361
Likes
1,719
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
From talking to other Swans fans this is what has upset people the most.

Not me. Trading Dempster for nothing was clearly Roos trying to do the best thing by Dempster. I have no problem with that, because at 23-24 he would be wasting his football career playing in the ACTAFL for any longer. So if Roos thinks he'd struggle to make the senior team regularly, it is fair enough.

As for Schneider, he has been sent somewhere where Roos knows the coach values him. If he was going to be traded, I'm glad that he's gone somewhere he was genuinely wanted. He wasn't worth St Kilda's pick 9 and they didn't have anything else in between. I'm nonplussed about getting a player instead or as well as pick 26 because I don't think there is anyone on the Saints list they'd have been willing to throw into the deal that would have significantly improved our list. Would rather see the likes of Laidlaw or Thornton get chances than be further behind Leigh Fisher or someone similar.
 

DST

Club Legend
Joined
May 1, 2003
Posts
2,205
Likes
760
Location
In enemy territory
AFL Club
Sydney
Fair dinkum people, pick 26 for Scheinder is just about spot on where he sit's at present considering his form over the last 2 years and the legacy he takes with him that he has to date not been able to get himself fit enough to play in the midfield.

As for Demspter, he had absoultely no trade value above pick 60 and we are not going to be using anything above pick 60 so why bother.

As liz has pointed out Roos has at least done the decent thing with Dempster and given him a chance to play senior football somewhere else by tacking him onto the Scheinder deal.

We wanted a ready made outside midfielder and KP Defender and we got those all while being able to hang to 11 and improve a couple of spots to 26.

Most students of the game here in Melbourne beleive we traded well over the last week and that the club has now shown it is fair dinkum that it is going to play some of it's younger talent early next year, something all on this board has asked us to do at various points in the last 6 months.

DST
:D
 

Tuco

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Posts
12,003
Likes
14,274
Location
Between ANZ & the SCG
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Bloods
The Schneider and Dempster package to St Kilda seems extremely generous taken in isolation. And any Saints fans disappointed with Rossy Lyon's first year, should take a long hard look at what he has achieved in this trade week and give him a big hand. But Ross probably had a good insider knowledge of how the Swans rated their list, and so knew that Roos would be partial to a trade if a third club could guarrantee us a suitable player.

But I also believe that the trade week as a whole was very good for us. There is a very good chance that Playfair will change the mix a bit for us - and for the better. And the Mattner trade was superb. And Mattner for Dempster - if we look at it that way - is not a loss. Mattner is a very good player who is still young, so he is a long term proposition, offsetting the upside of Dempster's relative youth. Although it is always sad when Father-son selections get moved on.

Take the Mattner trade out of the week and I'd be less impressed though.
 

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Posts
14,182
Likes
15,166
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Not me. Trading Dempster for nothing was clearly Roos trying to do the best thing by Dempster. I have no problem with that, because at 23-24 he would be wasting his football career playing in the ACTAFL for any longer. So if Roos thinks he'd struggle to make the senior team regularly, it is fair enough.

As for Schneider, he has been sent somewhere where Roos knows the coach values him. If he was going to be traded, I'm glad that he's gone somewhere he was genuinely wanted. He wasn't worth St Kilda's pick 9 and they didn't have anything else in between. I'm nonplussed about getting a player instead or as well as pick 26 because I don't think there is anyone on the Saints list they'd have been willing to throw into the deal that would have significantly improved our list. Would rather see the likes of Laidlaw or Thornton get chances than be further behind Leigh Fisher or someone similar.

Liz! That is absolutely spot on!:thumbsu:

One does get the feeling here that a lot of people think that pick 26 is not a very valuable pick. Don't underestimate it's value people. Swans supporters need to realise that Dempster moreso then Schneider was going to struggle for regular game time. Remember Scott Stevens who has become a solid defender for the Crows. Roos gave him a chance elsewhere! He could have just left him to die a slow death in the twos.

Now back to Schneids. The way we have to look at this trade is to ignore Dempster. We made a straight swap, Schneider for Mattner & improved two places in the pecking order of draft picks, 28 down to 26!!
End of story.

OK.I can hear some still saying that he is worth way more then pick 26. Well...........stiff cheddar! Judd is certainly worth way, way more then pick 3,4,5 & Kennedy if that trade could have happened. In fact, as a West Coast supporter, Judd is worth more then pick 1 & 2!

They got shafted badly WC. Remember this. The reason they picked him up was because they finished near bottom a few years in a row & that was his 'reward'. Some reward hey! The guy just CANNOT be replaced. No matter how good an offer the club think they are giving you in return.
At least we picked Schneids up much later in the draft. I can't exactly remember which pick but it would have been no higher then pick 26.

So basically what I'm trying to say, to those that think 26 is not a high enough pick in return for Schneider, is that we'll pick up a real good player for our future. Remember that word? "Future"! It's the argument that many have put forwar as to why they think we are stuffed!

Cheers!
 

Liesha

Team Captain
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Posts
419
Likes
0
Location
Penruff
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
South Sydney Rabbitohs
Not me. Trading Dempster for nothing was clearly Roos trying to do the best thing by Dempster. I have no problem with that, because at 23-24 he would be wasting his football career playing in the ACTAFL for any longer. So if Roos thinks he'd struggle to make the senior team regularly, it is fair enough.

As for Schneider, he has been sent somewhere where Roos knows the coach values him. If he was going to be traded, I'm glad that he's gone somewhere he was genuinely wanted. He wasn't worth St Kilda's pick 9 and they didn't have anything else in between. I'm nonplussed about getting a player instead or as well as pick 26 because I don't think there is anyone on the Saints list they'd have been willing to throw into the deal that would have significantly improved our list. Would rather see the likes of Laidlaw or Thornton get chances than be further behind Leigh Fisher or someone similar.
Thats cool, but I havent spoken to you about the Swans so I wasnt really referring to you :). People that I have spoken to seem to be unhappy about the deal for Schneider & Dempster.
 

Liesha

Team Captain
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Posts
419
Likes
0
Location
Penruff
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
South Sydney Rabbitohs
Liz! That is absolutely spot on!:thumbsu:

One does get the feeling here that a lot of people think that pick 26 is not a very valuable pick. Don't underestimate it's value people. Swans supporters need to realise that Dempster moreso then Schneider was going to struggle for regular game time. Remember Scott Stevens who has become a solid defender for the Crows. Roos gave him a chance elsewhere! He could have just left him to die a slow death in the twos.

Now back to Schneids. The way we have to look at this trade is to ignore Dempster. We made a straight swap, Schneider for Mattner & improved two places in the pecking order of draft picks, 28 down to 26!!
End of story.

OK.I can hear some still saying that he is worth way more then pick 26. Well...........stiff cheddar! Judd is certainly worth way, way more then pick 3,4,5 & Kennedy if that trade could have happened. In fact, as a West Coast supporter, Judd is worth more then pick 1 & 2!

They got shafted badly WC. Remember this. The reason they picked him up was because they finished near bottom a few years in a row & that was his 'reward'. Some reward hey! The guy just CANNOT be replaced. No matter how good an offer the club think they are giving you in return.
At least we picked Schneids up much later in the draft. I can't exactly remember which pick but it would have been no higher then pick 26.

So basically what I'm trying to say, to those that think 26 is not a high enough pick in return for Schneider, is that we'll pick up a real good player for our future. Remember that word? "Future"! It's the argument that many have put forwar as to why they think we are stuffed!

Cheers!
We'll see.
 
Top Bottom