schulz trade

[astro_toby]

Schulz has done way more than Wood and co.

Schulz has kicked 6 goals on the best FB in the league. That alone is more dominating than anything Wood has done.
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how long ago was that mate? danny was coach wasn't he?

i rate jay, i dont think he is crap - i just dont see much use in having he, jack, cleve and most probably troy all running around the same forward line. in 3-4 years we will HOPEFULLY be looking like a top 5 side - and if we can have simmo playing alongside cleve and jack - and a quality ruckman who is 25 taking his place with pattison playing as the back up and playing forward when we can take advantage of short defence's - that is our best situation

basically - i rate schulz behind cleve and jack \ and i think pattison can play forward and ruck to allow our number one ruckman to get a rest - Jay CANNOT play any other part of the ground & that is as simple as that

We basically have schulz, hughes, reiwoldt, simmonds, richo, polak, pattison - ALL capable of holding down a key forward position - yet only one player in Polak capable of holding down a key defensive postion - SURELY it isn't rocket science that we are top heavy in quality Big man forwards compared to the quality of our backline and midfield???

do we want to go forward or go no where? sydney has one key marking tall forward in hall, and then a roming marking forward in O'Loughlin - west coast have lynch, and then hunter - No successful side has 3-4 key marking forwards! simmo (who WILL be a forward by 2011 he wont be able to ruck that long) jay, cleve, Jack all playing as pure forwards with both patto & polak capable of playing there when matchs up work our way?

This seems straight forward to me

if we dont trade jay from those three - then which one???

 

[astro_toby]

yep he kicked 6 goals in a game in his first season and hes still dining out on it.you make all the excuses you want for him benny but living on the old potential tag doesnt sit with me. oh just on wood in 2 yrs you will be wishing he was at richmond.
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completely agree with both comments - i think jay will definitely be a great forward - but i also think that cleve and jack will too, and they have better character and mental strength than jay. jay also gets injured alot more, and can look very awkward.

woods will be a great player - if he was playing for us now - we will be milking him more than a heavy tited cow - tom williams from the doggies is gonna be no slouch either - we need better balance in our side

 

[lids2004roar]

A month ago you would have said "trade Hughes".

I can see all 3 working together in the forwardline.

If Richo can work with Schulz and Hughes then surely Jack Riewoldt can replace Richo's spot (or maybe Hughes can and Jack takes Cleve's role).

Essentially it is IN - Riewoldt, OUT - Richo

And stop using Simmo as a reason why Jay shouldn't be there. Simmo is no power forward, Freo ruined his career by playing him that way. Plus Simmo would only spend a year or two down there tops. Schulz has another 10 years in him.

 

[Rainsy]

No, No and No

 

[Rodgerramjet]

This is exactly why we should trade shultz now he has PERCIEVED CURRENCY.

We will and nor will any other side ever get a full season out of Shultz, the player is accident prone.

Trade him and a first rounder to the Saints for Nick Reiwoldt.

 

[lids2004roar]

This is exactly why we should trade shultz now he has PERCIEVED CURRENCY.

We will and nor will any other side ever get a full season out of Shultz, the player is accident prone.

Trade him and a first rounder to the Saints for Nick Reiwoldt.

I thought Nick Riewoldt was injury prone too

 

[Roger Dodger]

Consistent two goal games!

The guy is paid to kick goals. Has he noticed that Nathan Brown hasn't run out with the side recently? That means the onus is on Schultz to kick more goals.

That may come eventually. Our forward line will have to learn how to create space first. Given the fast learners we have in there like Andy Krak, Kayne Pettifer and Richo that could take years in itself.

 

[astro_toby]

Don't make blind assumptions then tell people they are wrong.

Again, you make a blind guess claiming he was thrown back "maybe once", well you simply don't know enough about these players to argue with everybody else.

QUOTE]

um dickelberry, i started this thread - so perhaps you are argueing with me??

if Cleve is our long term replacement for gaspar, then someone should have told terry that on the weekend, because we had no Gaspar or no full back at all - and he played cleve at full forward while mooney, hawkings and friends fiested themselves on our side

making a claim that perhaps i dont know enough about these players is rubbish - i am not their stalkers like some others may be - but i know enough to get by cleve is a forward - and therefore he should be played forward - i couldn't care less what the richmond website says - i have seehim play, and he looks like a natural forward - by the way, is this the same website which also said Royce Vardy is our future fullback, and jay schulz is being groomed as our CHB??? if that is a yes - then the proof is in the pudding there to your claims that maybe I am just believing everything i read on the net, and not seeing these blokes play footy enough

Jack Reiwoldt is not "fast" - he does not move like a richo, he isnt as slow as a knobel - but he is not quick enough to be considered average speed. he will be better suited in a CHF , FP or FF. you just over-rate our players too much, perhaps its because you want them to be what you believe them to be - and i respect that- it shows your passion - but these guys aren't everything the richmond website says they are.

 

[astro_toby]

A month ago you would have said "trade Hughes".

I can see all 3 working together in the forwardline.

If Richo can work with Schulz and Hughes then surely Jack Riewoldt can replace Richo's spot (or maybe Hughes can and Jack takes Cleve's role).

Essentially it is IN - Riewoldt, OUT - Richo

And stop using Simmo as a reason why Jay shouldn't be there. Simmo is no power forward, Freo ruined his career by playing him that way. Plus Simmo would only spend a year or two down there tops. Schulz has another 10 years in him.

then simmo will be retired if he cant learn to be a forward, then ruckman - cos ruckman don't have the longest shelf life -

i never have said i would trade hughes - i have always rated him above jay - so stop assuming i would

and it isnt richo out and jack in - because a) our forward line DOES NOT work, so it needs to be reshaped & b) riewoldt is not richo, and never will be. he will be a consistent marking forward, who consistenly will kick goals
richo was a freak, who could run all day - up the ground, unbeatable one and one - and is a flawed superstar

 

[santa claws]

A month ago you would have said "trade Hughes".

I can see all 3 working together in the forwardline.

If Richo can work with Schulz and Hughes then surely Jack Riewoldt can replace Richo's spot (or maybe Hughes can and Jack takes Cleve's role).

Essentially it is IN - Riewoldt, OUT - Richo

And stop using Simmo as a reason why Jay shouldn't be there. Simmo is no power forward, Freo ruined his career by playing him that way. Plus Simmo would only spend a year or two down there tops. Schulz has another 10 years in him.

ive given schulz 5 yrs and theres been little improvement please show me the improvement. kpp need at least 4 yrs to develop.so hughes has another 2 or 3 yrs yet the only thing i expect from hughes is slow and steady improvement.oh and going by your reasoning hughes has gone past schulz already 2 lots of 3 goals in a row.
and just on simmonds wallace played him as a forward and he failed miserably he is only ever going to be a ruckman. key forwards on the list or talls.some will not become kpp players. pattison grave doubts about him making it.kingsley what 29 next yrmcguane yes he is a forward.polak chf only.richo close to retirement.riewoldt shouldnt expect much from him for 2 or 3 yrs. and schulz well hes tradeable not good enough. thats 7 we have. 1 is close to retirement 2 are needed down back and 2 maybe not good enough.
long term we still need to be drafting tall kpp both forward and back other wise every time we cop an injury we will be undemanned.

 

[gold man]

This is exactly why we should trade shultz now he has PERCIEVED CURRENCY.

We will and nor will any other side ever get a full season out of Shultz, the player is accident prone.

he is clumsy, and not very intelligent as a person in general - i have met him and EWWW! he is arrogant, and a slimeball.

I think if we could get one of either a good, young ruckman , good, young Full back, or a tiger tuff in and under midfielder for Jay-Bird - i would take it.

I just don't think we need him all that much! and we certainly need all of those other things!

 

[IDGAF]

ah benny let me say i have never rated schulz. what has he done in 5yrs to convince you haes going to be a champion.the way i see it hes played a handful of half decent games since being drafted in 2002. imo he is slow poor below his knees lacks a brain cant find enough of the footy totally disappears in most games for huge chunks of them, and has had little or no improvement since he first came to the club.
its also my opinion we would be lucky to get a second round pick for him yet alone clubs handing over promising players like wood roe and even minson. they have all achieved more than schulz to date.
wallace once said he was a dud the only thing that has kept him at the club has been the odd glimpse and his age.there comes a time when the odd glimpse is not enough and his age wont save him.but im willing to bet we hang onto him until he has no trade value what so ever. its what we usually do at this club.

That is absolutely spot on .

Cleve Hughes > Jay schulz

Only need one "power forward" in the modern game and Cleve is easily strolling past Jay .

Not that he has any great value but i would defineately ut him on the table and see if we got a nibble .

Problem with players of the experience and talent of Jay is that when it comes to the crunch , clubs put thier poker faces on and wait for them to be delisted , then scavenge the PSD ... i doubt very much that you get anything of note for him .

But as Santa said .... still does not mean he shouldn`t be moved on instead of him clogging up our list for the next 5-7 years

 

[astro_toby]

That is absolutely spot on .

Cleve Hughes > Jay schulz

Only need one "power forward" in the modern game and Cleve is easily strolling past Jay .

Not that he has any great value but i would defineately ut him on the table and see if we got a nibble .

Problem with players of the experience and talent of Jay is that when it comes to the crunch , clubs put thier poker faces on and wait for them to be delisted , then scavenge the PSD ... i doubt very much that you get anything of note for him .

But as Santa said .... still does not mean he shouldn`t be moved on instead of him clogging up our list for the next 5-7 years

i'd prefer to keep him than delist him, heis a quality player - certainly worthwhile - but if we could trade him for a ruckman who was taken with a good pick and has show a little bit, but not come on leaps and bounds - i would take it

I think you actually agreed with my post IDGAF - do you feel dirty?

 

[IDGAF]

i'm sorry, but last night didnt happen because the kids didn't have one stronger bodied backman - or because the kids were taking it easy - something is not right down there - this match was disturbing

between that absoloute NO effort performance - on the back of gaspar pretty much walking out - hall being suspended - and polo being droped to the coburg 2nds - there is something seriously going on in the playing group - what exactly? who knows - but maybe its time to trade away our senior group at seasons end - i have been a big believer in not dumping our boys - but their is some serious mental issues with this group, which seems to be past down from the senior group to the youth every era since 83

i will agree on that

Maybe there has been something wrong ... not maybe , we all know there has .... for over twenty years ... and Plough has finally drawn a line in the sand with the playing group like no-one else ever has .

Me and a mate of mine have always said that ST. Kilda have inherent problems that lie culturally with them that have always seen them snatch mediocrity from the jaws of success ... magnified by the talent that they have had on thier list at times .

Problems that have stemmed from the Tail wagging the dog .

Players like Gaspar have been great ... there is no doubting that guys ability up until the last two/three years of his tenure at the club . But look at his career as a whole entity .

Jumped ship from Sydney in pretty ordinary circumstances , if people cast thier minds back we were investigated for draft tampering . Not sure what that says about his character ... played himself into a position where he had us over a barrell and could demand a kings ransom and he knew it ...so we had to fess up dollars , on more than one occasion .

Now .... when you are paying a bloke of his apparent "ilk" that sort of coin ... you would be entitled to think you would get the whole package .... leadership/captain etc . .... but did we ?

What we got was a quiet introverted character who on face value offered very little in the way of on field leadership ...IMHO ... he was a selfish player who did not bring other players into the game or inspire those around him . He worried about his job in shutting his opponent down and very little else .. and when you are only worrying about your job alone and forgetting about team/leadership things , it makes your job a lot easier .. and lets not forget to mention some of those many "efforts"(non) Gas has put in over the recent years .... that is the direction and leadership we have seen our youth get from a bloke who has earned 6-700k a year for the best part of his career

This is but one example ... i suspect that this has had a fair bit to do with Ploughs decision to wave him on .

Once Dale Weightman retired , our on field leadership in that period since , has been close to zero . We had a little bloke called Tony Free who had all the ingredients , but we all know what happened to him , Chris Bond was great , IMHO and i don`t think that it was any coincidence that we had our best 18 - 24 months on field in 20 years when those two were playing , Knighta and Cambo tried , but due to a lack of support and options , were consistently monstered out of games when the blow torch was applied and just did not ever have any real physical presence (see Libba episode )

So i don`t know ... posted a thread last night .."What is inherently wrong with our club" ... trying to find an answer ? "F..k knows ... i`m sure plough is currently trying to dredge through all his reserves of football experience and knowledge to find that answer .... but one thing i truelly believe is that our leadership issues are pretty close to the core of it ... and i reckon Terry has decided it has to bred out ... going to lead to a bit more pain but what choice do we have ... ?

i'd prefer to keep him than delist him, heis a quality player - certainly worthwhile - but if we could trade him for a ruckman who was taken with a good pick and has show a little bit, but not come on leaps and bounds - i would take it

I think you actually agreed with my post IDGAF - do you feel dirty?

Not the first time this week Astro

Agreed also that we are not in a position to delist a player like Schulz realistically ... but in the context of the above quoted posts , he may well be a part of it

Now i`m off to have a shower

 

[Bojangles17]

No.
If you're hurting over Rodan doing well for the Powerpuffs then you'll slash an artery if Schulz goes anywhere.

precisely, sarge has the ability to be a 60+ FF I wouldnt imagine we'd get sufficient compensation to warrant a trade for him...Last i noted we didnt have KPP spilling out of the list

 

[IDGAF]

precisely, sarge has the ability to be a 60+ FF

FFS Pal ... i`ve known you a lot of years , when the f... are we going to stop sitting here and repeating the catch cry of a generation lain waste ...."He`s got ability .... he`s GUNNA be"

Can`t tell you how over it i am .

Look at the runs on the board over the last 5 years and draw a line i say ... his peripheral vision/decision ,making skills are poor , injury prone .

I understand we are not in a position to de-list him but surely , heavens to goodness , if there was interest out there you would not have a look at it .

I look at players like Ray Hall , and think about the amount of time and resources we have put into that bloke ... 7 years or something we have put into him ... and he is as useless as **** on a bull .

 

[IDGAF]

An interesting aside

Someone has stuck a thread up on the Adelaide board discussing the virtues of Schulz and a possible trade , and a few of them are more than open to look at Jay and would trade around pick 15 - 20 ....

SOLD !!!! i say if that were on offer

I know this is merely BF BS , but it`s interesting

 

[Bojangles17]

FFS Pal ... i`ve known you a lot of years , when the f... are we going to stop sitting here and repeating the catch cry of a generation lain waste ...."He`s got ability .... he`s GUNNA be"

Can`t tell you how over it i am .

Look at the runs on the board over the last 5 years and draw a line i say ... his peripheral vision/decision ,making skills are poor , injury prone .

I understand we are not in a position to de-list him but surely , heavens to goodness , if there was interest out there you would not have a look at it .

I look at players like Ray Hall , and think about the amount of time and resources we have put into that bloke ... 7 years or something we have put into him ... and he is as useless as **** on a bull .

No i wouldn't cause facts are that KPP take at least 4 years before they are capable of kicking 60 goals....refer to fevola, barry hall and co...why would we lose patience now....

 

[Bojangles17]

An interesting aside

Someone has stuck a thread up on the Adelaide board discussing the virtues of Schulz and a possible trade , and a few of them are more than open to look at Jay and would trade around pick 15 - 20 ....

SOLD !!!! i say if that were on offer

I know this is merely BF BS , but it`s interesting

hmmm that equate to someone of patto's or meyers standard, No thanks

 

[IDGAF]

...why would we lose patience now....

Well , i will take the Pepsi challenge and go on record now and say that i think Jay Schulz is no good ... time will be our judge

One dimensional in a hard running rebounding game ... lacks footy smarts , and throw in the other reasons above ... will watch with interest

 

[IDGAF]

hmmm that equate to someone of patto's or meyers standard, No thanks

Del Santo`s standards ? ... YES !!!!

 

[CoggaRules]

Well , i will take the Pepsi challenge and go on record now and say that i think Jay Schulz is no good ... time will be our judge

One dimensional in a hard running rebounding game ... lacks footy smarts , and throw in the other reasons above ... will watch with interest

to fragile...would have to grow another leg in a year to become a sevicable battler...right now we are in despeate need for a KPP to hit the groung running...i.e. youngster that makes waves from day one...and develops into a tidal wave in game 100 and becomes a franchise player...until that happens...which right now looks lke not being in our lifetime..unless some old boy has a son we are toast...we are looking for a player...when the requirement is for a star...thats how far we have to go. Apart from Polo and maybe Lids....the rest are battlers at this stage...

 

[IDGAF]

to fragile...would have to grow another leg in a year to become a sevicable battler...right now we are in despeate need for a KPP to hit the groung running...i.e. youngster that makes waves from day one...and develops into a tidal wave in game 100 and becomes a franchise player...

Franklin

 

[CoggaRules]

Franklin

its really puzzling...we somehow never go for the obvious. Here we are with Richo at the end of his career a kid like that is available and what do we do? We dont...and keep on talking about how we need to get KPPs in next years draft..lol..we are becoming comical.
The dude is second fav for the coleman FFS and we are still talkng about how many years a KPP needs to develop at tigerland. LOL

 

[Ando_4]

NO WAY.

This thread is horrorfying!!!!!!

You can't rip out players like Schulz - his heart is with the yellow and black. How many times have you heard him say "I really want to repay the fans for their persistence with me, I just love Tigerland and I'm dying to get out there to show what I can do and repay the loyal fans"

Jay Schulz will be a superstar and trading him is like trading Deledio.

We can not trade our own, especially those who care about the club and have been through a lot with us.

You say you want a RELIABLE foward well Schulz is more reliable than Matthew Lloyd!!! Last year he kicked 16.3 in 10 matches and he has a career accuracy higher than Lloyd, Fevola, Williams and every other "reliable" forward.

Jay Schulz - verge of becoming a superstar. A home-grown RICHMOND star. Plus he is one of the few capable of showing aggression on the field, can split packs, rough 'em up and eat 'em alive!!

Totally agree benny.
Schulz is finally starting to really show something and with Richardson on the verge of retirement, talk of trading him is crazy.

Fix the ****ing midfield and Schulz will be a star!