Scientists can now diagnose CTE while players are still alive - How will this affect the AFL?

RUNVS

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Thread starter #51
from an insurance and OH&S point of view, there will be massive ramifications
I was reading an American site and they were talking about the possibility of insurance for school football going through the roof, and for most schools, even the areas where high school football is everything, it could simply become too expensive for schools to have a football program.
 

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Power Raid

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#52
I was reading an American site and they were talking about the possibility of insurance for school football going through the roof, and for most schools, even the areas where high school football is everything, it could simply become too expensive for schools to have a football program.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. We certainly don't want people (especially youth) having permanent injuries, especially brain injuries. At the same time we don't want to wrap our kids in cotton wool and make them soft. Especially soft in the sense of big, fat and lazy.

Either way the health care system will be rubbing there hands in the US. The US already spends the most on health care but has lower health outcomes like life expectancy than their OECD peers. Nothing quite like selling health to 300m wealthy fat and lazy people.

Perhaps the game has to evolved and perhaps that starts with banning protective equipment (other than a soft leather helmet). As players would simply not tackle as hard if they felt every tackle.
 

RUNVS

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Thread starter #53
From "Back One Out" who can't post on the main forum but I think makes an interesting point

I just wanted to say that AFL fans are wrong to compare apples with oranges when it comes to degenerative brain injuries occurring to NFL players and concussions to our own footballers here in Australia.

American footballers practise with constant scrimmaging. Basically, they line up opposite each other and when the coach blows his whistle they crash into each other as hard as they can, helmet to helmet. They do this over and over and over and over... Like a military drill.

The American game (on the line of scrimmage, in the trenches) is all about getting off the line ASAP; hitting your opponent as hard & quickly as possible and knocking him backwards to give your quarterback or running back a few yards of time & space (Or the opposite if you're on the defensive line.) Every split second matters. Like 100m sprinters getting out of the blocks.

I read Colin Scott's autobiography - he was a Rugby Union player from Sydney who was spotted by football scouts from the University of Hawaii while he was on a Wallabies Schoolboys tour - he was given a scholarship and became the first Australian to become a starter in the NFL: Defensive End for the St Louis Cardinals.

In his book, he detailed the mind-numbingly repetitive and brutal nature of footy training in American football where players literally bash their heads together thousands of times before they've even made it to the big league. And Scotts never played high school football. He was a late starter.

The concussive effects of their helmet to helmet scrimmaging dwarfs the handful of concussions an AFL player will experience throughout his career. American footballers think their helmets prevent injuries, but they actually use them as a weapon - they lead with their helmets and lose brain cells on every hit.
I would be very interested to know exactly the types of movements that are required for CTE and which contact sports are going to be more affected by it. By the sounds of it at the very least the NFL is going to have to make some rule changes and the AFL is going to have to keep working on protecting the head. If they do not, it could seriously harm the sport in the long term in regards to participation and also potential lawsuits.
 

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#55
Who the hell cares? Seriously i am sick of this, jockeys die race car drivers die motorbike racers die during their sport but they know the risk when they get into it and now we have scientists trying to kill contact sports because of brain injuries. It's an absolute joke
The joke is that you'd prefer athletes to unwittingly jeopardise both their short and long term mental health for your own personal gratification.
 

loki04

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#56
In 20 years the physical contact part of the afl will be next to nothing

It cant survive this imho - every year they will water it down a little bit more - liability will force their hand
People should just sign waivers, not only that but the comparison with AFL and NFL players is laughable. There has not been a single case of CTE found in AFL despite years of research and testing of it. They are preparing for the what if or one off cases.

The amount of head hits from an AFL player compared to NFL would not be even remotely comparable.

******* disgraceful that people openly and want to neuter a sport for something that is very rarely going to be seen.

It's like banning the high mark because every once in a blue moon a player lands wrong and breaks their neck like years back and the guy from wa league.
 

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#57
People should just sign waivers, not only that but the comparison with AFL and NFL players is laughable. There has not been a single case of CTE found in AFL despite years of research and testing of it. They are preparing for the what if or one off cases.

The amount of head hits from an AFL player compared to NFL would not be even remotely comparable.

******* disgraceful that people openly and want to neuter a sport for something that is very rarely going to be seen.

It's like banning the high mark because every once in a blue moon a player lands wrong and breaks their neck like years back and the guy from wa league.
You arent thinking this through.

Dont think about the players - think about soccer mums not letting their kids play....
 

loki04

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#58
Except jockeys, car drivers and motorbike racers know the risk. It's pretty obvious.

Whereas we're still defining the risk, likelihood, consequences etc of CTE.

Plus half the reason it's become a concern in America is because of some relatively famous athletes who have been diagnosed with CTE on post-mortem after they've gone nuts and shot others, such as family etc. And because it's very likely having a big effect in high school kids.

Obvious why people and scientists care.
Jockeys have the highest rate of CTE from any sport...AFL have not had a single case diagnosed...

It's a concern in the NFL along with rampart drug use (both narcotics and roids) in nearly all the players tested who died from it.

We do not want to watch touch footy part of what makes footy great is its contact side of the game, we have netuered the bump to almost laughable levels and now they are neutering the tackle.

Soon this will be tag footy. Make players sign waivers and give them the risks if the play AFL.


I bet not one player would be lost keeping the game the way it should be played.
 

loki04

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#59
The joke is that you'd prefer athletes to unwittingly jeopardise both their short and long term mental health for your own personal gratification.
They don't have to play it! Just like boxers don't have to box, MMA fighters don't have to fight but guess what they do knowing the risks in fact it is partly another driver to want to succeed with those risks.
The game is already a bastardised version of its self, watered down bump and now tackle how much further do we take it? when does it stop? do we need a 3 foot rule like netball?

I am assuming most people on here had at the least a junior career? did you feel like your life is under threat from playing AR?
As the leading nueroroligists in aus says, many people who think they have CTE don't and ageing plus other factors are what are causing memory liss deppression etc.

NFL players who got it also all had other factors along with it drugs, roids and known mental disorders.

Who's to say that a cocktail of steroid, narcotics and concussions isn't what causes that "insanity" that the real bad cases suffered from...

Known fact cocain (or meth amphetamines) and roids cause depression anxiety and "rage" problems.

A lot of AFL players who have "depression" funnily enough have also been "rumoured" to be known cocain partakers...funny that.
 

loki04

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#60
Personally, I think he'd be better off consulting a neurologist.
He likely did considering the Floreat institute and southern hemisheres leading doctor has been testing ex afl players for years partly funded by the afl, he was also a consulting dr on the NFL cases.
 

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#61
They don't have to play it! Just like boxers don't have to box, MMA fighters don't have to fight but guess what they do knowing the risks in fact it is partly another driver to want to succeed with those risks.
I have no issue with people doing anything that have inherently associated risks as long as they're informed of those risks.

The game is already a bastardised version of its self, watered down bump and now tackle how much further do we take it? when does it stop?
The AFL have a duty of care to Australian Rules to ensure it survives into the future.
As has been pointed out by other posters; the (potential) next generation of AR playing kids are far more important than those like us who are already entrenched in the game. The AFL will be adjusting whatever rules they need to in an effort to make sure kids are playing AR and not soccer, basketball etc

I am assuming most people on here had at the least a junior career? did you feel like your life is under threat from playing AR?
Just because they/I didn't feel like our lives were under threat doesn't necessarily mean the threat doesn't exist,
I don't feel under threat every time I jump in my car to drive somewhere, swim in the ocean etc but there is certainly an element of risk in every behaviour

As the leading nueroroligists in aus says, many people who think they have CTE don't and ageing plus other factors are what are causing memory liss deppression etc.
.
Do you have a source/name?
I'd tend to agree with him that a lot of people don't actually have CTE but I'm still interested as to whether there's actually any statistic evidence that this is the case.

NFL players who got it also all had other factors along with it drugs, roids and known mental disorders.

Who's to say that a cocktail of steroid, narcotics and concussions isn't what causes that "insanity" that the real bad cases suffered from...
.
Of course.
Often times these things go hand in hand but currently no one knows for certain which of these factors comes first, or if any have a causative effect on the others.
Current theories suggest that genetic markers are associated with a high risk factor for things like mental illness and addiction. Who's to say there's not a genetic marker that predisposes someone to CTE? Or that the genetic markers associated with mental illness and addiction also predispose people to CTE?

A lot of AFL players who have "depression" funnily enough have also been "rumoured" to be known cocain partakers...funny that.
There'd be a lot of a lot more cocaine users that AREN'T suffering from depression than are.
By the same token there's a lot more depression sufferers who AREN'T using cocaine than are.
Either way, that's completely irrelevant to the discussion.
 

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loki04

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#62
There'd be a lot of a lot more cocaine users that AREN'T suffering from depression than are.
By the same token there's a lot more depression sufferers who AREN'T using cocaine than are.
Either way, that's completely irrelevant to the discussion.
You would be wrong there, it kills dopamine receptors, so while 1 off users may not see massive sides the people who get "hooked" most certainly do. Even the ones who semi partake have depressive rebounds. Its fact.

Oh and i have posted all the info previously in other cte threads.

You say it will stop next gen of players taking footy over soccer nrl or other, i call bs. If this was the case AR would of died off along time ago but it didn't it actually went strength to strength.

Old foosils of which im only in my 30s also have a say in which sports our kids play not just "soccer" mums who btw have nbeen putting their kids into soccer for decades.

You water down the dads who follow the game then you lose a generation of kids who follow dad sport of choice! A lot of people are already switching to league because of whats happened to the game over the last decade.
 

RUNVS

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Thread starter #63
You would be wrong there, it kills dopamine receptors, so while 1 off users may not see massive sides the people who get "hooked" most certainly do. Even the ones who semi partake have depressive rebounds. Its fact.

Oh and i have posted all the info previously in other cte threads.

You say it will stop next gen of players taking footy over soccer nrl or other, i call bs. If this was the case AR would of died off along time ago but it didn't it actually went strength to strength.

Old foosils of which im only in my 30s also have a say in which sports our kids play not just "soccer" mums who btw have nbeen putting their kids into soccer for decades.

You water down the dads who follow the game then you lose a generation of kids who follow dad sport of choice! A lot of people are already switching to league because of whats happened to the game over the last decade.
You make it sound like dads don't care about their sons or daughters getting brain injuries.
 

loki04

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#64
You make it sound like dads don't care about their sons or daughters getting brain injuries.
No I make it sound like dads have been playing and putting their kids in rough sports for a millennia, because they have.

Most dads also hopefully have a sense of common sense and not buy into the fear mongering that is a follow through from NFL, a completely separate sport and completely different in terms of head hits, type, number, impact etc.

I'd also expect these dads to use a bit of life knowledge in the fact that CTE is a very very low percentage chance in Aussie rules as a sport through generations of people playing in a code older the NFL.

I'd also hope that dads would be aware that little billy may or may not get injuries along the way and while we all want our kids to go through life in fit healthy state we can not stop them living life or look to change every thing they want to do in life to bubble wrap them against it.


Not all mums think like pussies either plenty of mums while not wanting to see harm to their child realise that playing a contact sport sometimes accidents/incidents comes with the territory.
Obviously we don't want deliberate off the ball or malicious incidents in the game but a certain level of physicality is needed to keep the game in the spirit it was designed.
 

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#65
People should just sign waivers, not only that but the comparison with AFL and NFL players is laughable. There has not been a single case of CTE found in AFL despite years of research and testing of it. They are preparing for the what if or one off cases.

The amount of head hits from an AFL player compared to NFL would not be even remotely comparable.

******* disgraceful that people openly and want to neuter a sport for something that is very rarely going to be seen.

It's like banning the high mark because every once in a blue moon a player lands wrong and breaks their neck like years back and the guy from wa league.
Exactly jockeys die yet we don't stop horse racing but there is a chance that a player may develop a CTE and we have to radically change the game.
 
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