ScoMo's 2018 Federal Budget

[Power Raid]

Working weekends involves personal cost why should some jobs be discriminated against because they are at the bottom of the power and influence.

Why does business always want something for nothing,

agree

I'm just not sure whether massive penalty rates are the solution. I think we need penalty rates but why should we deny employment opportunities for people who want to work weekends but can't because an employer can't afford double or triple time.

Take a university/ high school student who studies during the week and wants to supplement their Austudy income. They can study on the weekend or study for 1 hour if they choose. but they can't choose to work for 1 hour at bunnings after school and face restricted employment opportunities due to being priced out of the market.

I'm pro fair penalty rates and pro better family and community time. At the same time I want to see proper community businesses thrive rather than seeing coles/ woolworths/ online shopping. airbnb, ride share etc undermine what really makes a good community and society good.

 

[Power Raid]

one could argue why we even need a physical place for parliament given technology and video conferencing.

Shutting parliament would save money and reduce mental health issues and family break downs if politicians stayed at home. It might also help politicians serve their community better, if they were abusing or fking each other in Canberra.

 

[Kram]

Double time on a Sunday is simply ludicrous, 1.5 is very adequate compensation. Anyone with half a brain should realise this.

CBH casual for example only pay 1.5 on Sunday, granted the standard pay is far better than retail but then again it's work out in the heat and the dust in the middle of nowhere, not standing around in air conditioned comfort saying "Can I help you?".

 

[owen87]

I'm pro fair penalty rates and pro better family and community time. At the same time I want to see proper community businesses thrive rather than seeing coles/ woolworths/ online shopping. airbnb, ride share etc undermine what really makes a good community and society good.

This is something that's often missed; many of the minimum rate changes disproportionately affect small business who don't run such massive profits, have EBA's, or any of the myriad of other ways large enterprise can leverage their size.

If the staff wage goes up, then a small business has to find the extra cash to fund it; either by a loss in profit (which is unsustainable long-term) or by increasing costs to customers.

Wage increases can't occur in a vacuum.

 

[Carn The Berries]

You have already admitted they was no proposal to cut executive pay, while there was for the workers. Simple open and shut hypocrisy. If you cannot be honest enough to admit that just don;t bother posting. A basic level of honesty is needed for debate. You appear not to have it.

And you're conveniently choosing to recognise that one side actually gave something up and the other didn't. You talk about actually debating a topic but won't even concede that something that ACTUALLY happened did in fact happen.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Wrokers don't chose when work is offered, in general it's the decision of businesses, which if the costs are higher wit will lead to less work on Sundays. So you argument is just arse about. Sundays being higher pay leads to more workers to work on more voluntary basis.


I made the arguments if you can be honest enough to at least address them just don;t bnother posting the same line of crud

That is a complete load of bulls***. Do you think Woolies or Coles would run less staff on a Sunday if there is an equal amount of demand to a Saturday? You seem to think that businesses just pick and choose their hours... They actually respond to market demand... A pretty simple concept really.

 

[Carn The Berries]

agree

I'm just not sure whether massive penalty rates are the solution. I think we need penalty rates but why should we deny employment opportunities for people who want to work weekends but can't because an employer can't afford double or triple time.

Take a university/ high school student who studies during the week and wants to supplement their Austudy income. They can study on the weekend or study for 1 hour if they choose. but they can't choose to work for 1 hour at bunnings after school and face restricted employment opportunities due to being priced out of the market.

I'm pro fair penalty rates and pro better family and community time. At the same time I want to see proper community businesses thrive rather than seeing coles/ woolworths/ online shopping. airbnb, ride share etc undermine what really makes a good community and society good.

Couldn't agree more with this. You can't just say "we need to have double time to limit the supply of labour on Sunday" because the reality is there are big corporates that will operate even if it was 2.5 or 3 times because they can wear the cost. All it does is hurt small businesses who are struggling to keep up as it it. Simply turning the dial up on penalty rates (or failing to reduce them) does precisely nothing to address this apparent social injustice of people working on Sunday and missing out on social activities... It's just making it harder for the little guy to compete. Whether the market should have been deregulated or not is an entirely different discussion but it is essentially moot, the genie can't go back in the bottle. As a result we need to be pragmatic about how we can make things as even as possible.

Penalty rates that price small businesses out of the market aren't the answer.

 

[TimmeT]

Couldn't agree more with this. You can't just say "we need to have double time to limit the supply of labour on Sunday" because the reality is there are big corporates that will operate even if it was 2.5 or 3 times because they can wear the cost. All it does is hurt small businesses who are struggling to keep up as it it. Simply turning the dial up on penalty rates (or failing to reduce them) does precisely nothing to address this apparent social injustice of people working on Sunday and missing out on social activities... It's just making it harder for the little guy to compete. Whether the market should have been deregulated or not is an entirely different discussion but it is essentially moot, the genie can't go back in the bottle. As a result we need to be pragmatic about how we can make things as even as possible.

Penalty rates that price small businesses out of the market aren't the answer.

Which goes back to the incredible irony of the Unions campaign. They whinge that penalty rates are being cut while complaining that big business makes too much overall profit. They then ignore the fact that they turned out enterprise deals with big business to reduce penalty rates in exchange for getting their fee paid which allowed them to reduce wage expense and now they want less profitable small business to pay additional money to employees at certain times. This will subsequently result in less work opportunity for some workers.

The various unions directly contributed to this issue and are totally washing their hands of any responsibility for it. They then also in step with their chosen political party ALP have the nerve to whinge when politician like Pauline vote against the penalty rate cut and call them anti-workers cause she jknow first hand what it was like paying the extra rates when big business wasn't being made to.

The unions are a substantial contributor to this issue and are conveniently doing all they can to pretend like they are not responsible for any of it.

 

[pugsville]

And you're conveniently choosing to recognise that one side actually gave something up and the other didn't. You talk about actually debating a topic but won't even concede that something that ACTUALLY happened did in fact happen.

No one side gave up NOTHING while demanding gthe other side give up SOMETHING. that's FACTS.

It;'s the definition of HYPOCRISY which you will not admit because you just have fixed point of view which is immune to FACTS.

 

[pugsville]

Which goes back to the incredible irony of the Unions campaign. They whinge that penalty rates are being cut while complaining that big business makes too much overall profit. They then ignore the fact that they turned out enterprise deals with big business to reduce penalty rates in exchange for getting their fee paid which allowed them to reduce wage expense and now they want less profitable small business to pay additional money to employees at certain times. This will subsequently result in less work opportunity for some workers.

SO Unions were being bashed earlier for not trading in conditions and now they are being bashed for trading on conditions.

 

[Taylor]

The simple solution is to make things cost more on Saturday and even more again on Sunday, then they can pay extra to those people working on Saturday and Sunday.

Nobody suffers. Except the customer choosing to do their shopping when everyone is supposed to not be working.

 

[Taylor]

SO Unions were being bashed earlier for not trading in conditions and now they are being bashed for trading on conditions.

If the trading conditions agreed to sell out their members for a payment to the union, irrespective of the rest of the discussion that sounds like something that needs to be explored.

 

[Power Raid]

Which goes back to the incredible irony of the Unions campaign. They whinge that penalty rates are being cut while complaining that big business makes too much overall profit. They then ignore the fact that they turned out enterprise deals with big business to reduce penalty rates in exchange for getting their fee paid which allowed them to reduce wage expense and now they want less profitable small business to pay additional money to employees at certain times. This will subsequently result in less work opportunity for some workers.

The various unions directly contributed to this issue and are totally washing their hands of any responsibility for it. They then also in step with their chosen political party ALP have the nerve to whinge when politician like Pauline vote against the penalty rate cut and call them anti-workers cause she jknow first hand what it was like paying the extra rates when big business wasn't being made to.

The unions are a substantial contributor to this issue and are conveniently doing all they can to pretend like they are not responsible for any of it.

the unions can't survive without the centralisation of labour into large corporations. They pretend to hate big business but in reality they hate small business and the individual.

 

[Taylor]

the unions can't survive without the centralisation of labour into large corporations. They pretend to hate big business but in reality they hate small business and the individual.

It's in their interest to present themselves as the little guy up against the big business, it is a selling point to their members. If they were negotiating from what is objectively a total position of power then their image takes a whack.

 

[TimmeT]

It's in their interest to present themselves as the little guy up against the big business, it is a selling point to their members. If they were negotiating from what is objectively a total position of power then their image takes a whack.

COrrect coming from the perspective that they can do something for all against the big company. Reality is that they won't be able to or they will not be of help to certain people but they won't find this out until after.

 

[Power Raid]

anyone old enough to remember when you couldn't buy petrol on a sunday within city limits?

it's interesting to remember when having the trading and wages debate

 

[pugsville]

the unions can't survive without the centralisation of labour into large corporations. They pretend to hate big business but in reality they hate small business and the individual.

Ah They hate they individual and small business. Yes Unions are evil they stay all night planning how to destroy people.
Really says a lot more about you than unions, like you don;t live in the real world.

 

[Kram]

Ah They hate they individual and small business. Yes Unions are evil they stay all night planning how to destroy people.
Really says a lot more about you than unions, like you don;t live in the real world.

The ETU does 2 fifths of **** all for any of the little guys in the housing industry. All about the big end of town in the large construction projects.

 

[TimmeT]

Ah They hate they individual and small business. Yes Unions are evil they stay all night planning how to destroy people.
Really says a lot more about you than unions, like you don;t live in the real world.

Why would the unions then engage in deals with big business to restrict penalty rates but not with small business?

 

[JackOutback]

Employees arguing the case for big business is evidence that things in this country are arse about.

 

[TimmeT]

Employees arguing the case for big business is evidence that things in this country are arse about.

No it's not when those who claim to be for the worker and for negotiating workers rights want to * them.

 

[pugsville]

No it's not when those who claim to be for the worker and for negotiating workers rights want to **** them.

Say the people who want to reduce workers wages. Really? Get a mirror have good hard look at what a total hypocrite looks like,

 

[TimmeT]

Say the people who want to reduce workers wages. Really? Get a mirror have good hard look at what a total hypocrite looks like,

ROFL the unions including the current opposition leader have had many success at doing this. Bill Shorten waived penalty rates in exchange for the payment of union memebership, then implemented the system whereby they are reviewed each 4 years. These same organisations are then complaining when small business want a fair playing field thanks to the clear differences implemented by the unions.

 

[pugsville]

ROFL the unions including the current opposition leader have had many success at doing this. Bill Shorten waived penalty rates in exchange for the payment of union memebership, then implemented the system whereby they are reviewed each 4 years. These same organisations are then complaining when small business want a fair playing field thanks to the clear differences implemented by the unions.

Whats are you advocating the Abolition of the enterprise bargaining system and a return to universal awards?

Enterprise bargaining favors large organizations.the clear differences are not done in isolation it's enabled by government legislation and agreed to by lareg businesses.

In Capitalism under a level playing field small business is slaughtered. Large business can tilt the playing severely and it's profitable to do so,

 

[Carn The Berries]

Ah They hate they individual and small business. Yes Unions are evil they stay all night planning how to destroy people.
Really says a lot more about you than unions, like you don;t live in the real world.

If you could articulate to us all how double time penalty rates on Sundays help small businesses I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.