Scott Welsh leaving

[mb2326]

Re: Welsh gone

Did you hear John Reid on 5AA?!

The bullshit artist was choking on his own bullshit! I mean seriously, he was covering up left right and center.

OK, so the club was concerned with Scott's behaviour this year and they said that if he could keep in line by june, the club would start negotiating for a new contract with him. So when Welshy said, OK I am happy to meet that criteria but I would like some assurance. I would like to include a clause in my contract that says if I meet the criteria you set out, I will be given a new contract after this season.

That seemed a fair enough for me but apparently it would have been "too hard" to write those into the contract and club didn't want to go down that path because of Welsh's behavioural issues.

Reidy spare me the crap and PLEASE do not insult my or anyone else's intelligence here. Just because you are a Football Operations Manager at one of the best clubs in the AFL, it doesn't mean that you are smarter than anyone else out there. I have been around the joint enough to realise that your speak for "too hard" is you covering your ass in this because you and I both know very well that Scott Welsh, had he agreed to your proposed 1 year deal would NOT be getting a new contract next year regardless of whether or not he met the criteria you set out for him. The reason for you to find it "too hard" to include that clause into a contract is because you don't want to be legally liable when the october comes around and you have to delist Welsh. He will be 30 in december next year so that automatically rings alarm bells for anyone thats not a 1st tier player.

So why hide behind the little crappy "too hard" line and come out and say that you are not interested in giving him 2 years because of the profile of our list. I am sick and tired of the bullshit that JR tries to paddle and treat us as dumb dicksplashes. I think the supporters deserve a bit more credit than that.

I have no major issues with Welsh's departure. It has its positives and negatives and while I prefered for him to stay, I am not gutted that he is gone but I am disappointed with the party line that the club is paddling out and the press release smacked of bitterness and lack of class from JR's part

John Reid has been in the job for too long and we need a fresh person in his role. I personally think he (along with NC's boring game plan and not making football enjoyable) is one of the major reasons that so many players have left on their own accord this year.

Lets face it, we are screwed for the next couple of years we have no goal kickers whatsoever and the midfield is slow. 2008 and 2009 will be "development years". Lets just hope the recruiters do the right think and actaully pick up some talent in the draft.

 

[Asty]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Great post and I can see where the club is coming from but my word it’s a dangerous scheme.

I agree that the scheme is dangerous.
If adelaide wont sign non-1st tier after they are 30 what would be going through your head as a 24-26yo player. Mine would be telling me I only have 4-6 years at this club left so I am going to have to go to another club eventually if I want to play 6-8 more years (make the money while you can etc). The desirability of a 24-26 yo is a lot higher than a 27-30yo so I should look for a new team now.

 

[Asty]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

So hearing the news today that he will or wants to come to the dogs, what are the problems that we face having him on our list besides being injury prone.. Is he a worth while pick up?

P.s But i don't think he will last in the draft to us...

depending on what he wants his pay packet to look like as a free pick up he is a pretty good pick up. In a mobile forward line with murphy and johnson teams would have trouble matching on their mobility. Good shot on goal as well so just need to get him on the park each week.

 

[WCgirl]

Re: Welsh gone

The only off-field issue I've ever heard about with Scotty Welsh is the "abuse" debacle And if they were coming down hard on him for that thats a little soft! He threw a jumper at her... But I wouldn't worry too much about it, crows being my second (possibly third, not entirely sure) favourite team I watch a lot of your matches and from what I see, he aint that great.

 

[earlsta]

Re: Welsh gone

Geez, No Perrie, No Welsh ..

What are we going to do?

 

[FlyingCrow]

Re: Welsh gone

"the sky is falling, the sky is falling"

 

[crowsarethebest]

Re: Welsh gone

John Reid has been in the job for too long and we need a fresh person in his role. I personally think he (along with NC's boring game plan and not making football enjoyable) is one of the major reasons that so many players have left on their own accord this year.

Lets face it, we are screwed for the next couple of years we have no goal kickers whatsoever and the midfield is slow. 2008 and 2009 will be "development years". Lets just hope the recruiters do the right think and actaully pick up some talent in the draft.

Agreed. There has been many reports that the players aren't exactly "happy" down at our club... they think the coaches take things way too seriously and they need a bit more freedom. It shows on the field as well... we are like robots.. no flair, no imagination. We are disciplined but you can't win a football match by being so robotic..

 

[flackjack]

Re: Welsh gone

It's a good thing we kept Kenny, then again we may have offered Scotty the 2 year contract if Kenny left.

 

[- PC -]

Re: Welsh gone

It's a good thing we kept Kenny, then again we may have offered Scotty the 2 year contract if Kenny left.

''omg they kept Kenny''

 

[relapse]

Re: Welsh gone

Agreed. There has been many reports that the players aren't exactly "happy" down at our club... they think the coaches take things way too seriously and they need a bit more freedom. It shows on the field as well... we are like robots.. no flair, no imagination. We are disciplined but you can't win a football match by being so robotic..

I tend to agree, everything is so precise, autocratic and robotic. Player management rules with no variance or flexibility and no flexibility on the field with match day coaching. At the moment all it has achieved is cost a flag in 06 and is now costing us on field talent. I hope Craigy masterplan is worth it.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Welsh gone

I tend to agree, everything is so precise, autocratic and robotic. Player management rules with no variance or flexibility and no flexibility on the field with match day coaching. At the moment all it has achieved is cost a flag in 06 and is now costing us on field talent. I hope Craigy masterplan is worth it.

cRap ......stop regurgitating stuff from other posts and then claiming it as fact.

Nothing to do with Welsh's, Hudsons or Mattners departure.

Oh and yes Bode and Tourney asked to be delisted because they were unhappy with the environment.

Cmon think about your posts

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Welsh gone

Certainly the wolves (AFC supporters) have been after Scotty's blood for overa season .......yet when he decides to leave we are upset???

I agree with Macca contradictory thoughts on the matter and Stiffy's thoughts on the clubs spin-doctoring garbage.

Here's my thoughts:

1. Meh ....about him leaving ....he wasn't part of the future but he was going to help with a winning environment as we did blood the future kids.

2. He had every right to take another offer as it was as plain as it comes this would have been his last year.

3. We are now very light on for forward line experience .......we do however have time to review our drafting strategy to short term cover the situation (another Gill scenario)

4. I do not mind a full rebuilding year coming into a strong 2008 draft ......2009 IMO will BE EXCITING

But I will Love 2007 .......seeing kids ....future stars being groomed ......and watch out those posters who try and tear them down because I'll attack

 

[IslingtonCrow]

Re: Welsh gone

Welsh was never going to win us a flag. Whilst we will suffer some short term pain by losing our leading goal kicker, it will speed up the development of our younger players, and ultimately bring us to our next premiership sooner (which is the only reason for playing IMO).

The following guys will all be pretty excited about 2008 at AFC:

1) Jericho - for mine the logical replacement for Welsh provided he plays as a running half forward. He played more good games than bad in 2007 at AFL level. I think he has matured as a player and can make it. Not everyone is ready to go at age 20. Furthermore, not every player has to be a hard as nails enforcer. Adelaide needs quick, skilled players with clean hands just as much as it needs a tough gritty midfielders. So for mine, provided Jericho does everything right in the pre-season, he should get first dibs on a half forward flank.

2) Gill - I would like to see Gill at centre half forward. He will play a similar role to Perrie - he will just do it better. However, my primary reason for wanting to play Gill at centre half forward is so we can leave Bock at centre half back. Bock is a brilliant centre half back and an okay forward. Play him in his best position for f$%k sake.

3) With Gill and Jericho across the half forward line we need some class. I would say Edwards (he is winding down in what is a very good chance to be his last year) as he has class and is pretty handy around goals or Burton - a classy player with heaps of aerial ability and goal sense.

4) Porplyzia - the easiest forward to pick for mine. Of all the blokes on out list he is primed along with one or two others to make the next step. He sholuld be aiming for 40 plus goals next year and if he plays a full season I reckon he can do it.

5) Hentschel - massive question mark on this one. If he continues where he left off in 2006 then he is our first pick full forward. If he struggles then he may need to play in defence or regain SANFL form. Too hard to tell at this stage.

6) McGregor - with Welsh gone and with Hentschel likely to struggle early McGregor is a decent option for us. However, he is unlikely to be a game breaker and is never likely to kick more than 3 or 4 goals in a game.

So we have a forward line of:

McGregor Hentschel Porplyzia

Edwards / Burton Gill Jericho

In terms of other options

7) Stevens. Looks good up forward. I would rather see Bock at centre half back and Stevens up forward if Hentschel doesnt make it. Bassett will be back next year so there will be less need for Stevens to play in defence - especially if Moran can fill a role down there as well (although I am not sure he can)

8) Sellar / Tippett. Yes they are likely to be key forwards. How likely are they to be any good in 2008 though? Probably a few games here and there but I would expect more in 2009. Also with the AFL set to establish a gold coast based team, AFC will need to start managing the retention of KT now. If he is out of contract when the Gold Coast team starts up we will no doubt be screwed again. At least Sellar and Walker barrack for AFC.

9) Vince. Could cover for Edwards or Porplyzia.

10) Walker. Let him crack skulls and breathe fire at SANFL level for one or two years.

11) Draft Kepler Bradley. There could be worse things to do with a low draft pick.

Thoughts people?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

Vader I was about to post the same thoughts almost word for word .....obviously you stole my notes ........well done WW

 

[Rex - Crow]

Re: Welsh gone

**** off Welsh. You are weak as piss on and off the field. I'm ****ing really happy about this to be honest. Might mean we suffer a bit of pain in 2008, but I'm ****ing pumped to see Tippett, Walker & Sellar dominate our forward lines in the years to come. If the Dogs are really that keen on having two injury-prone ****wits from our club, let them have them.

Settle!!!

I agree with you the positive flip is that we should get to see some young talent for a change instead of the " injury proned **** wits " lol.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: Welsh gone

...
2. He had every right to take another offer as it was as plain as it comes this would have been his last year....

And this is the reason that Reidy's comments on the issue really gave me the shits!

Its clear as daylight that no matter what Welsh did next year, he wasn't going to get another contract and for Reid to come out with the excuses of it being "too difficult" to put those criteria into the contract is rather insulting to the members, supporters and Scott himself.

Reid played a card of one year and a verbal commitment that the new contract would be forthcoming if Welsh met the criteria. Then he goes all mighty and angry when Welsh and his management are not dumb enough to fall for that bullshit!

Welsh was never going to get a contract for 2009 season no matter what he did and Reid knows it but it doesn't stop him from insulting our intelligence by paddling the crap that he did on 5AA!

As I said, I am not here nor there on Welsh leaving. Its a good thing in one way but I am not going to accept the crap that JR is paddling. Its better to remain quiet and be thought of as a fool than speak and remove all doubt! Does he seriously expect anyone to buy that garbage?!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Welsh gone

Welsh was never going to win us a flag. Whilst we will suffer some short term pain by losing our leading goal kicker, it will speed up the development of our younger players, and ultimately bring us to our next premiership sooner (which is the only reason for playing IMO).

The following guys will all be pretty excited about 2008 at AFC:

1) Jericho - for mine the logical replacement for Welsh provided he plays as a running half forward. He played more good games than bad in 2007 at AFL level. I think he has matured as a player and can make it. Not everyone is ready to go at age 20. Furthermore, not every player has to be a hard as nails enforcer. Adelaide needs quick, skilled players with clean hands just as much as it needs a tough gritty midfielders. So for mine, provided Jericho does everything right in the pre-season, he should get first dibs on a half forward flank.

4) Porplyzia - the easiest forward to pick for mine. Of all the blokes on out list he is primed along with one or two others to make the next step. He sholuld be aiming for 40 plus goals next year and if he plays a full season I reckon he can do it.

5) Hentschel - massive question mark on this one. If he continues where he left off in 2006 then he is our first pick full forward. If he struggles then he may need to play in defence or regain SANFL form. Too hard to tell at this stage.

6) McGregor - with Welsh gone and with Hentschel likely to struggle early McGregor is a decent option for us. However, he is unlikely to be a game breaker and is never likely to kick more than 3 or 4 goals in a game.

7) Stevens. Looks good up forward. I would rather see Bock at centre half back and Stevens up forward if Hentschel doesnt make it. Bassett will be back next year so there will be less need for Stevens to play in defence - especially if Moran can fill a role down there as well (although I am not sure he can)

8) Sellar / Tippett. Yes they are likely to be key forwards. How likely are they to be any good in 2008 though? Probably a few games here and there but I would expect more in 2009. Also with the AFL set to establish a gold coast based team, AFC will need to start managing the retention of KT now. If he is out of contract when the Gold Coast team starts up we will no doubt be screwed again. At least Sellar and Walker barrack for AFC.

11) Draft Kepler Bradley. There could be worse things to do with a low draft pick.
QUOTE]

You would not be able to wipe the smile off Jericho's face tonight .....but it won't be as a HFF ..........it'll be as Welshes replacement at FF .....and yeah he can make a fist of it as long as he runs fast enough to avoid the hits in the back of the head.

Porplyzia must go into the midfield .......it's a talent wasted in the forward line .....his ability to eaxtract and distribute the ball in traffic is exactly what we need .....just needs to get his fitness levels up and stop damaging that knee

Hentschell .....why does everyone expect him to take up where he left off .........will be a defender IF he plays AFL next year.

Mcgregor would also have a smile that would be almost permanent one would think.

Stevens is a part time forwrd ....but a very handy third tall backman .....my preference is to take the longterm view and play him as a defender

Tippett WILL BE a class forward ......end of story

Yeah and now that Welsh has gone if there was any doubt about recruiting Bradley IMO we should chase him.

 

[Rex - Crow]

Re: Welsh gone

And this is the reason that Reidy's comments on the issue really gave me the shits!

Its clear as daylight that no matter what Welsh did next year, he wasn't going to get another contract and for Reid to come out with the excuses of it being "too difficult" to put those criteria into the contract is rather insulting to the members, supporters and Scott himself.

Reid played a card of one year and a verbal commitment that the new contract would be forthcoming if Welsh met the criteria. Then he goes all mighty and angry when Welsh and his management are not dumb enough to fall for that bullshit!

Welsh was never going to get a contract for 2009 season no matter what he did and Reid knows it but it doesn't stop him from insulting our intelligence by paddling the crap that he did on 5AA!

As I said, I am not here nor there on Welsh leaving. Its a good thing in one way but I am not going to accept the crap that JR is paddling. Its better to remain quiet and be thought of as a fool than speak and remove all doubt! Does he seriously accept anyone to buy that garbage?!

Mate I agree with you but these monitors on this forum will hang for this post. They took 3 points off me for usint the word COW!!! Thats right COW!!!! Please I never new I was stuck in pre school.


Pffffft What a pack of you know wahts.

 

[Crow-mo]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

actually I am going to disagree with Vader.

I think there are 2 things wrong here.

1st the idea that non-tier 1 players can't lead you anywhere, and retainign will lead to mediocrity. that could be right, but it ignores the reality that there is a very finite number of tier 1 players any club can have. this theory suggests that we can have 18 of them, when really we might have 4 or 5 at best. so I don't see this the same way, getting rid of tier 2 players prematurely, will in all likelihood not lead to his replacement being tier 1.

secondly, as fsar as welsh's games played targets - hasn't it been reported, that he wants a players 'option' on a second year if he meets certain targets? which kinda makes his games played totals redundant - he only gets year 2, if he plays year 1.

I did like the thinking though, just don't see the same conclusions

 

[Rex - Crow]

Re: Welsh gone

Welsh was never going to win us a flag. Whilst we will suffer some short term pain by losing our leading goal kicker, it will speed up the development of our younger players, and ultimately bring us to our next premiership sooner (which is the only reason for playing IMO).

The following guys will all be pretty excited about 2008 at AFC:

1) Jericho - for mine the logical replacement for Welsh provided he plays as a running half forward. He played more good games than bad in 2007 at AFL level. I think he has matured as a player and can make it. Not everyone is ready to go at age 20. Furthermore, not every player has to be a hard as nails enforcer. Adelaide needs quick, skilled players with clean hands just as much as it needs a tough gritty midfielders. So for mine, provided Jericho does everything right in the pre-season, he should get first dibs on a half forward flank.

4) Porplyzia - the easiest forward to pick for mine. Of all the blokes on out list he is primed along with one or two others to make the next step. He sholuld be aiming for 40 plus goals next year and if he plays a full season I reckon he can do it.

5) Hentschel - massive question mark on this one. If he continues where he left off in 2006 then he is our first pick full forward. If he struggles then he may need to play in defence or regain SANFL form. Too hard to tell at this stage.

6) McGregor - with Welsh gone and with Hentschel likely to struggle early McGregor is a decent option for us. However, he is unlikely to be a game breaker and is never likely to kick more than 3 or 4 goals in a game.

7) Stevens. Looks good up forward. I would rather see Bock at centre half back and Stevens up forward if Hentschel doesnt make it. Bassett will be back next year so there will be less need for Stevens to play in defence - especially if Moran can fill a role down there as well (although I am not sure he can)

8) Sellar / Tippett. Yes they are likely to be key forwards. How likely are they to be any good in 2008 though? Probably a few games here and there but I would expect more in 2009. Also with the AFL set to establish a gold coast based team, AFC will need to start managing the retention of KT now. If he is out of contract when the Gold Coast team starts up we will no doubt be screwed again. At least Sellar and Walker barrack for AFC.

11) Draft Kepler Bradley. There could be worse things to do with a low draft pick.
QUOTE]

You would not be able to wipe the smile off Jericho's face tonight .....but it won't be as a HFF ..........it'll be as Welshes replacement at FF .....and yeah he can make a fist of it as long as he runs fast enough to avoid the hits in the back of the head.

Porplyzia must go into the midfield .......it's a talent wasted in the forward line .....his ability to eaxtract and distribute the ball in traffic is exactly what we need .....just needs to get his fitness levels up and stop damaging that knee

Hentschell .....why does everyone expect him to take up where he left off .........will be a defender IF he plays AFL next year.

Mcgregor would also have a smile that would be almost permanent one would think.

Stevens is a part time forwrd ....but a very handy third tall backman .....my preference is to take the longterm view and play him as a defender

Tippett WILL BE a class forward ......end of story

Yeah and now that Welsh has gone if there was any doubt about recruiting Bradley IMO we should chase him.

I like your info and to the most i agree with you. But Bradly is rubbish and we should get some more youth to the table!!! I know we need a balance of experience and youth but youth will pay off in the long run on a percetage basis.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I think there are 2 things wrong here.

1st the idea that non-tier 1 players can't lead you anywhere, and retainign will lead to mediocrity. that could be right, but it ignores the reality that there is a very finite number of tier 1 players any club can have. this theory suggests that we can have 18 of them, when really we might have 4 or 5 at best. so I don't see this the same way, getting rid of tier 2 players prematurely, will in all likelihood not lead to his replacement being tier 1.

Both POV's are right ....it's just in the timing of the clubs evolution IMO.

AS we went for flags your right salary cap and recruiting limitations restrict the number of tier one players so you have to have a good group of tier 2 players to support the tier one.

I agree with most who say that it's the most evenly talented sides that win flags and that's where a good backbone group is important.

However where we're at presently is that we have to bring a high number of young players into the side to prepare them for when the tier one players depart ......unfortunately unless your going to delist tier one players the greater number of openings in the side is occupied by backboners.

I'd suggest Tippett, Sellar, Vince and Douglas have potential to be tier one .....to get them into the side do we let go an Edwards or a Perrie?

 

[AndrewJo]

Re: Welsh gone

The only off-field issue I've ever heard about with Scotty Welsh is the "abuse" debacle And if they were coming down hard on him for that thats a little soft! He threw a jumper at her... But I wouldn't worry too much about it, crows being my second (possibly third, not entirely sure) favourite team I watch a lot of your matches and from what I see, he aint that great.

Maybe the Crows have been able to keep some problems in-house a bit better than some clubs. I heard of a problem that has been a worry some weeks back. You can't expect JR to come out and tell everyone what the undisclosed problems were.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

being tier 1.

secondly, as fsar as welsh's games played targets - hasn't it been reported, that he wants a players 'option' on a second year if he meets certain targets? which kinda makes his games played totals redundant - he only gets year 2, if he plays year 1.

I did like the thinking though, just don't see the same conclusions

Has that been credibly reported anywhere? I thought it was just another baseless bigfooty rumour?

 

[Crow Envy]

Re: Welsh gone

cRap ......stop regurgitating stuff from other posts and then claiming it as fact.

Nothing to do with Welsh's, Hudsons or Mattners departure.

Oh and yes Bode and Tourney asked to be delisted because they were unhappy with the environment.

Cmon think about your posts

You cant dismiss the notion so easily there arent issues at the club. Hudson, Welsh, Mattner, Meesen and for awhile McGregor all wanted to leave. Roo mentioned fun needs to be reintroduced to the club, Roo is no fool and would have known exactly what he was saying. Torney gets cut and others approaching the twighligt arent given standard contracts. What message does that send to the remainder of the playing group? Basically as you are getting on, watch your back.

Reported issues in the coaches box, Jonas wanting out.

A coach that doesnt want to change and wont concede even when he is wrong.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[AndrewJo]

Re: Scott Welsh leaving?

I agree with your comments you have made however if I may add....


On the Pfeiffer issue which is still simmering away at some supporters, let me quote of all people John Cahill. He said that as he became more experienced as a coach he realized the importance of getting rid of players that had a poor attitude and rocked the boat regardless of talent. It was one of the most damaging things in football to have at your club in his opinion.

Supporters want premierships and if Adelaide thinks this is the best way to achieve that goal then I believe them.

I think the comments here are spot on. If off field behaviour rocks the boat get rid of them. Libel laws prevent lots being said on Big Footy about players that have been seen behaving badly in public. Trust your administration.