Search for Aussie Rules Oldest Footballs

[fabulousphil]

The true burley ball was similar inshape to the faulkner. The Chesson was the better ball.

Got any info on the Chesson or Rover footballs, a Chesson or Chessons played football in Perth around the 1920's according to Trove.

The more footballs the better IMO

Very interesting topic.

 

[Pie eyed]

The first Australian rules football was invented by T.W. Sherrin in 1880, when he was given a misshapen rugby ball to fix. He designed the Sherrin with indented rather than pointy ends to give the ball a better bounce. Sherrin began production in 1897 in a workshop in Collingwood, which had produced sporting goods since the 1880s. The sport known as football, or "footy", was rapidly increasing in popularity, and Sherrin footballs soon became the icon for being the first ball made for Australian rules football.

The Burley Football Company was started in 1906 by carpenter and former tanner's apprentice, Joe Burley, who was requested to make a ball that "kept its shape" for the Western Australian Football Association (WAFA). Previously, rugby balls had been used for the sport, but these were easily worn and prone to changing shape from a prolate spheroid to a sphere by the completion of matches.[1] Burley's ball was first tried in a WAFA game between East Fremantle and West Perth in June 1906, and gained popularity amongst players, leading to it being exclusively used by the WAFL from 1921, a practice which continues to this day. The ball was introduced to the South Australian National Football League (SANFL) in the 1920s, and is the official ball.[2] Along with the Sherrin, the Burley football was declared the official football of the Australian National Football Council (ANFC). The Burley was also used in interstate and carnival matches featuring Western Australia.

In 1927, Ross Faulkner started manufacturing high quality products for the increasing numbers of people playing sporting games. The first range included Australian Footballs, Cricket Balls and Rugby Balls.

 

[Dalphonso]

The SANFL used Kookaburra footballs with flat ends in the late 70's early 80's

 

[Michael Riley]

OK...I question the 'invention' of the ball by Sherrin in 1880.

The 1880 date is when Sherrin started his Cricket Ball making company. It is clear that Sherrin was making footballs by the late 1880s, but how 'distinctive' they were, or widespread their use is not clear.

The other interesting point is that the laws of the time were that a 'match 2 Rugby ball' was the standard Aussie rules ball. Rugby balls at the time were is no way pointy . I am not clear on what was invented.

I can find no advertisements for Sherrin balls pre 1890, nor can I find any article which says that Sherrin produced anything truely distinctive from other rugby balls in this early period, finally, I can find no advertisements which sell 'Australian Rules' balls and 'rugby' balls as different categories which would show that people saw that Aussie Rules required a distinctive ball.

If someone can find an advert before the 1930's where there is a distinction between rugby and Australian Rules balls I would be interested. I looked hard in NSW and Queensland without much luck.

The Aussie Rules ball has changed over time. My earlier post notes that the ball shape was still being debated in the late 1930's. In fact the 1920's/30's appears to be the period when the existance of an Australian Rules Ball really takes shape.

 

[JackFlash]

I always liked the Ross Faulkner footballs, had one for about 20 years, it was a beauty. "don't bounce it on the road" my brother used to say. A good ball. You could really get onto a torpedo with them.

 

[omit]

This photo is from the Melbourne Grammar archive.

the 1873 Buckley cup winning team. on the right you can see a man holding an old football. had a cursory glance and couldn't find any older football photo's on the archive

http://dbtw.mgs.vic.edu.au/dbtw-wpd/textbase/Lodge_Archives.htm

Have you tried getting in contact with Melbourne Grammar or Scotch College? (or any of the other old grammar schools). They probably have some information you'd find useful

 

[fabulousphil]

OK...I question the 'invention' of the ball by Sherrin in 1880.

The 1880 date is when Sherrin started his Cricket Ball making company. It is clear that Sherrin was making footballs by the late 1880s, but how 'distinctive' they were, or widespread their use is not clear.

The other interesting point is that the laws of the time were that a match 2 Rugby ball was the standard Aussie rules ball. Rugby balls at the time were is no way pointy anyway. I am not therefore clear on what was actually invented.

I can find no advertisements for Sherrin balls pre 1890, nor can I find any article which says that Sherrin produced anything distinctive from other rugby balls in this early period, finally, I can find no advertisements which sell 'Australian Rules' balls and 'rugby' balls as different categories.

If someone can find an advert before the 1930's where there is a distinction between rugby and Australian Rules balls I would be interested. I looked hard in NSW and Queensland without much luck.

The Aussie Rules ball has changed over time. My earlier post notes that the ball shape was still being debated in the late 1930's. In fact the 1920's/30's appears to be the period when the existance of an Australian Rules Ball really takes shape.

"At the 1888 Melbourne centennial exhibition Sherrin was awarded a diploma of merit for fine craftmanship.

The list was as follows

Australian rules footballs
rugby balls
cricket balls
boxing equipment
basket and soccer balls"



This would lead me to believe there was a fundamental difference between AF and rugby balls, in size and appearance.

 

[Michael Riley]

I have not contacted Grammer or Scotch. You are right. They may have an old ball in their collections!!! I will contact them.

In terms of 1870's balls, there is a good image from the SLV Collection.

http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/149925
unidentified footballer - Source: State Library of Victoria H2012_81 - studio of Timothy Noble c1874-78

 

[fabulousphil]

In 1927, Ross Faulkner started manufacturing high quality products for the increasing numbers of people playing sporting games. The first range included Australian Footballs, Cricket Balls and Rugby Balls.​

Ross Faulkner was apprenticed to the Sherrin company in 1908.

 

[Michael Riley]

"At the 1888 Melbourne centennial exhibition Sherrin was awarded a diploma of merit for fine craftmanship.

The list was as follows

Australian rules footballs
rugby balls
cricket balls
boxing equipment
basket and soccer balls"


This would lead me to believe there was a fundamental difference between AF and rugby balls, in size and appearance.

I assume your list is from Syd Sherrins book.

Syd Sherrin's book has a photo of that 1888 stand which includes footballs. The book does not specify the list you have given. It reads "T.W. Sherrin was awarded a Diploma of Merit for fine craftsmanship. The list of products manufactured by T.W. Sherrin Pty Ltd at the turn of the last century was as follows:....".

The other awards Sherrin won in the 1880's, which are widely cited as examples of his early work, were specifically for cricket balls when I checked the original newspaper references.

If there was a reference from the 1880's that specifically mentioned Australian Rules balls then that would be interesting, especially as the laws of the game just said that a rugby ball was used.

 

[Pie eyed]

Ross Faulkner was apprenticed to the Sherrin company in 1908.

According to my info Faulkner, Ross worked for his father William Faulkner before starting his own business. Can't find any mention of his apprenticeship, although I am sure I read it somewhere, possibly this thread.
From Ross Faulkner website
QUOTE]We can trace our origins back to 1898 when William Faulkner established a Saddlery & Leather Goods business to cater for the transport needs of the times. His son later joined the business. With the skills acquired in Leather Goods, he subsequently recognised the growing interest in Sporting Activities created an opportunity for expansion.
In 1927, Ross Faulkner started manufacturing high quality products for the increasing numbers of people playing sporting games. The first range included Australian Footballs, Cricket Balls and Rugby Balls.[/QUOTE]

 

[fabulousphil]

According to my info Faulkner, Ross worked for his father William Faulkner before starting his own business. Can't find any mention of his apprenticeship, although I am sure I read it somewhere, possibly this thread.
From Ross Faulkner website
QUOTE]We can trace our origins back to 1898 when William Faulkner established a Saddlery & Leather Goods business to cater for the transport needs of the times. His son later joined the business. With the skills acquired in Leather Goods, he subsequently recognised the growing interest in Sporting Activities created an opportunity for expansion.
In 1927, Ross Faulkner started manufacturing high quality products for the increasing numbers of people playing sporting games. The first range included Australian Footballs, Cricket Balls and Rugby Balls.

[/quote]

Fair enough, although in the book ..... Sherrin the family behind the football ...... it is specifically mentioned he was apprenticed at Sherrins, does not mean he did not work for his father.

Wonder where the Faulkner business was, and why he did his apprenticeship at Sherrins ??.

 

[fabulousphil]

I assume your list is from Syd Sherrins book.

Syd Sherrin's book has a photo of that 1888 stand which includes footballs. The book does not specify the list you have given. It reads "T.W. Sherrin was awarded a Diploma of Merit for fine craftsmanship. The list of products manufactured by T.W. Sherrin Pty Ltd at the turn of the last century was as follows:....".

The other awards Sherrin won in the 1880's, which are widely cited as examples of his early work, were specifically for cricket balls when I checked the original newspaper references.

If there was a reference from the 1880's that specifically mentioned Australian Rules balls then that would be interesting, especially as the laws of the game just said that a rugby ball was used.

On page 25 it does specify, maybe i am not following, but i agree in 1888 it was probably not called a Australian football.

 

[Michael Riley]

On page 25 it does specify, maybe i am not following, but i agree in 1888 it was probably not called a Australian football.

The book is very careful not to say that any of the 1880's awards were for footballs.

It is clear that TW Sherrin did make footballs in the late 1880's (they are in the 1888 photo), but whether they were a 'name brand' or that they revolutionised the ball in the 1880's are claims without much evidence.

If anyone can find an advert or a price for a Sherrin football in the 1880's then please post it. All the 1880's price lists I have found mention other brands, but not Sherrin. You would expect the ball that revolutionised the game to appear on stocklists and be loudly spruiked. But not so.

That said, Sherrin had a massive rise to fame in the 1890's and it is unclear why. His Sherrin branded footballs were barely cheaper that the imported balls from England. So he did not compete on price. He did have strong links with Collingwood and this was probably crucial to his ultimate success.

....I should publish my article which has all this in it.....

 

[fabulousphil]

The book is very careful not to say that any of the 1880's awards were for footballs.

It is clear that TW Sherrin did make footballs in the late 1880's (they are in the 1888 photo), but whether they were a 'name brand' or that they revolutionised the ball in the 1880's are claims without much evidence.

If anyone can find an advert or a price for a Sherrin football in the 1880's then please post it. All the 1880's price lists I have found mention other brands, but not Sherrin. You would expect the ball that revolutionised the game to appear on stocklists and be loudly spruiked. But not so.

That said, Sherrin had a massive rise to fame in the 1890's and it is unclear why. His Sherrin branded footballs were barely cheaper that the imported balls from England. So he did not compete on price. He did have strong links with Collingwood and this was probably crucial to his ultimate success.

....I should publish my article which has all this in it.....

Love to read it,

I do note that a ad in Bendigo from 1893 states that the Sherrin ball is used by all metro clubs, and it is superior in shape, quality etc to imported balls.

Odd there is adds in Bendigo, but none in Melbourne earlier that i could find.

You would think that advertising would be happening in Melbourne, maybe it was word of mouth in those days, and a salesman or Sherrin himself etc turning up directly to the clubs.

He was obviously a good businessman, belived in his product and the public liked it, i know i like kicking a Sherrin.

I think what we will find is Sherrin fixed a few English footballs (gilberts), made some adjustments, saw a oppurtunity to both make some money and involve himself in his favourite sport and had some luck together with good management, and hard work.

 

[basashi]

I always liked the Ross Faulkner footballs, had one for about 20 years, it was a beauty. "don't bounce it on the road" my brother used to say. A good ball. You could really get onto a torpedo with them.

You wonder what the fate of the torpedo would have been if the AFL used a different ball.

(Before anyone jumps down my throat.... I give up: I already agree that *whichever* ball you are defending or promoting is vastly superior to all other balls in all areas, even the mutually exclusive ones.)

 

[JackFlash]

You wonder what the fate of the torpedo would have been if the AFL used a different ball.

(Before anyone jumps down my throat.... I give up: I already agree that *whichever* ball you are defending or promoting is vastly superior to all other balls in all areas, even the mutually exclusive ones.)

I am pretty sure up until the mid 70's the umpires would carry two footballs with them and they used to give teams a choice of ball to use and Ross Faulkner was one of them, some people say it was too pointy? I say it was perfect for the torpedo and drop kick, not quite sure the Faulkner is as good for the drop punt which has been the preferred kick for the past 30-40 years?
I remember the old World Of Sport 'Long Kick' (which should return via the Footy Show by the way) and i am certain they used Faulkner balls?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I always feel used when somebody comes on and posts this stuff. Only jarkin. This may be a worthwhile cause, unless you're a spiv for some sort of a memorabilia conglomerate. On this score, your posting history (or lack thereof) is a worry. Boylesfootballphotos - would that be a business contact? Are you a crook who preys upon the gullible?

How ungracious of you. A 185 poster bagging out a 55 poster? What a hypocrite

Why cant you just treat the thread on its merits instead of attacking like you did? If you dont like the thread, dont post on it , or report it if you feel so angered by it.

 

[Michael Riley]

Love to read it,

I do note that a ad in Bendigo from 1893 states that the Sherrin ball is used by all metro clubs, and it is superior in shape, quality etc to imported balls.

Odd there is adds in Bendigo, but none in Melbourne earlier that i could find.

You would think that advertising would be happening in Melbourne, maybe it was word of mouth in those days, and a salesman or Sherrin himself etc turning up directly to the clubs.

He was obviously a good businessman, belived in his product and the public liked it, i know i like kicking a Sherrin.

I think what we will find is Sherrin fixed a few English footballs (gilberts), made some adjustments, saw a oppurtunity to both make some money and involve himself in his favourite sport and had some luck together with good management, and hard work.

It is odd that there is nothing in Trove prior to the 1890's. (nor can I find anything that says that the Sherrin ball is a different shape/size from any other ball). I am guessing that prior to 1893(ish) his balls were used as generic practice balls. Which would mean the Bendigo advert could be true, the Sherrin ball could well have been used by all metro clubs.... but not as their main game ball.

There are many options:

• Maybe the 1890's change was a new marketing strategy, or even a new level of quality
• Maybe his early links with Collingwood meant that Collingwood used Sherrins ball as their main ball and this influenced other clubs.
• The 1890s also saw English Rugby define the size of their ball for the first time, maybe this had an impact.
• Maybe the 1890s depression caused a shortage of imported balls.

Whatever happened Sherrin capitalised on it and crucially his ball was used by the new VFL.

Once the Aussie Rules ball was defined by the ANFC in the 1900's a range of other local manufacturers sprung up. In Melbourne Fordham and Don were big producers. Fordam (from Brunswick) had the contract to supply the VFA and Don (also from Brunswick) was a bulk supplier and by WW1 produced more footballs than anyone else in Australia. W.A obviously had Burley and the Gilbert Rugby ball was still available.

So in these early years we have quite a few Australian manufacturers all producing slightly different balls. They could do this because the laws allowed an inch (2.5cm) variation in the length and circumference of the ball.

The shape of the ball was still evolving and all manufacturers had to update their balls to new specifications in 1930 and 1939.

 

[rugmop]

How ungracious of you. A 185 poster bagging out a 55 poster? What a hypocrite

Why cant you just treat the thread on its merits instead of attacking like you did? If you dont like the thread, dont post on it , or report it if you feel so angered by it.

Nobody who posts on here should be questioned? It seems to have escaped your limited attention that I asked a series of questions. Did you miss the 'jarkin' part of my post as well? Unlike you, the OP realised that he had not explained himself very well and, quite appropriately, chose to do so. It was not the number of posts which were the problem but how recently the poster had joined the site, seemingly with the express purpose (subsequently admitted) of gaining cooperation from the members here.

Forget all of that. Would you be interested in buying several acres of swamp in Queensland? I'm hoping it might have been the gullible part with which you most closely identified.

 

[Michael Riley]

It was not the number of posts which were the problem but how recently the poster had joined the site, seemingly with the express purpose (subsequently admitted) of gaining cooperation from the members here.

Yes Rugmop. I joined a year ago and posted infrequently, with specific intention of waiting till now to shockingly ask people for their help in identifying the oldest Australian Rules Footballs that still exist. I have to admit that I feel terrible for overstepping such a boundary.

Frankly my friend, if you have nothing useful to contribute please take your trolling to another thread where someone may enjoy your banter.

 

[Polecat]

Great thread. Love trawling through Trove when in the office (gives the appearance of being busy). The old footy-related articles such as the North Melbourne "push" gangs from early last century are a persnal fave but thanks to this thread, I have a new subject matter I'd like to investigate...

Slightly off topic but as a kid did anyone else have one of those completely plastic footys that you get for $1 from the local toy store?

Yes. Those horrible brown ones that you would sink the boot into and they would get a nice dint in them, or you would kick them into the wind and they'd float right back over your head! There were many other "quirky" balls available for short periods in the 70s and 80s - does anyone remember the rubber ones with the little nodules all over them? The bounce on them was so extreme that you would always lose them over fences and walls.

 

[childeric]

Great thread. Love trawling through Trove when in the office (gives the appearance of being busy). The old footy-related articles such as the North Melbourne "push" gangs from early last century are a persnal fave but thanks to this thread, I have a new subject matter I'd like to investigate...



Yes. Those horrible brown ones that you would sink the boot into and they would get a nice dint in them, or you would kick them into the wind and they'd float right back over your head! There were many other "quirky" balls available for short periods in the 70s and 80s - does anyone remember the rubber ones with the little nodules all over them? The bounce on them was so extreme that you would always lose them over fences and walls.

I had plastic footy in the early 60s and the end was very hard and would hurt the instep

Unless you were wearing your Ron Barassi plastic footy boots of course

 

[cemoz]

Haven't dropped in here for awhile but this thread peaked my interest, I would definitely be interested in your report. I am a leatherworker and have repaired footballs from the 80's and early 90's when they still used vegetable tanned leather. Would love to see some of the even earlier ones. Don't like the new ones at all look like plastic, the old ones had some character about them.

 

[Hit And Rum]

does anyone remember the rubber ones with the little nodules all over them? The bounce on them was so extreme that you would always lose them over fences and walls.

Oh yeah! Bloody annoying little buggers.