Autopsy Season 2020

Remove this Banner Ad

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
20,391
24,973
AFL Club
Sydney
You can also see that at the beginning Horse was trying to get the younger blokes more invloved and the older blokes less involved, but by the end of the season is was just JPK and Parker in there all over again.
Probably a symptom of the younger blokes not standing up as much as Horse wanted.
If by younger blokes, you mean Ollie Florent, then yep. I like the kid but geez he is frustrating.

I'll be really interested to hear his thoughts/the coaches thoughts on his season, because it seemed like we were priming him to become the next star in the midfield, and by season's end, not only was he not a star, but he was barely in the midfield at all. It's hard to see it as anything other than a demotion. He was part of the main trio of mids against GWS, but had a really quiet game with 12 touches. The next week (round 13) he drops down to 31% and never really sees much inside time for the rest of the games. It's also the game that Kennedy returns.

I don't think that's just a coincidence personally. He got given the proverbial boot from the starting midfield trio, and as frustrating as that is given how much I think the midfield needs to evolve, you can't even blame Horse for doing it.
 

Punts

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 11, 2012
23,984
25,335
AFL Club
Sydney
If by younger blokes, you mean Ollie Florent, then yep. I like the kid but geez he is frustrating.

I'll be really interested to hear his thoughts/the coaches thoughts on his season, because it seemed like we were priming him to become the next star in the midfield, and by season's end, not only was he not a star, but he was barely in the midfield at all. It's hard to see it as anything other than a demotion. He was part of the main trio of mids against GWS, but had a really quiet game with 12 touches. The next week (round 13) he drops down to 31% and never really sees much inside time for the rest of the games. It's also the game that Kennedy returns.

I don't think that's just a coincidence personally. He got given the proverbial boot from the starting midfield trio, and as frustrating as that is given how much I think the midfield needs to evolve, you can't even blame Horse for doing it.
Playing more HF towards the end

Wasn’t there an article saying he was the next leader of the mid group?

Pretty much drag from there at the end
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
20,391
24,973
AFL Club
Sydney
Playing more HF towards the end

Wasn’t there an article saying he was the next leader of the mid group?

Pretty much drag from there at the end
Yep


It was after the Hawthorn game. Two matches after that he got relegated to the wing, then HF.

To be honest though I thought Florent's form was dropping off even before the article, so I found it slightly odd reading at the time.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
20,391
24,973
AFL Club
Sydney
Florent and Hayward kinda sum up this year in a odd sort of way. Very promising before, some strong performances, but for the most part very disappointing.
Indeed, and as the two 22 year olds we really needed them to be taking leaps in their development, not the kids like Rowbottom and McInerney.
 

Nool Carpenna

All Australian
Jul 9, 2014
706
1,304
AFL Club
Sydney
I’m encouraged by Hayward’s year. We know he can take a grab, decent kick, mobile, tough as teak, and starting to build a really solid body... another preseason and coaches putting him in position to get his hands on it and I think he’ll become a pretty strong contributor
 

Kapers

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2019
1,513
2,587
AFL Club
Sydney
It’s almost as though people think all plays develop and produce in lock step with each other.

From what I’ve seen so far of Florent and Hayward they’d both fit very comfortably in a Premiership side in the next few years.
I'm as big of a supporter of Hayward and Florent as anyone, most of my posts are defending them in one form or another, but I'm still ultimately disappointed in them this season.

Not because I expected them to develop as fast as the others, but because their peaks have a have already been consistently reached.

Florent showed at the beginning of this year that he could be an amazing part of the midfield, and Hayward showed in his first 2 years how dangerous around goals he can be, imo best goal sense in the whole team.

But we saw some stagnation and deterioration in their games this year, and I understand that's youth and I fully expect them to be back up next year, but it's still disappointing because I love watching them play really really well.
 

Kapers

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2019
1,513
2,587
AFL Club
Sydney
On Hayward a bit more. I tend to agree with Ceaser88 when we talk about where Hayward is best. He's not particularly skilful when passing, and he's a slow decision maker. He is a lovely mark and obviously has good work ethic.

He is amazing in front of goals, and seems to have a deeper understanding inside 50 than any of our other players (ignoring the run down tackle).

His set shots have also been not great.

I really think his tools are not suited to being up the ground, and any time spend in defence should only be there to prepare him to be forward. Just needs to average 15 disposals, and probably needs a better team to really start getting back to his earlier form.

I love Hayward, and I really think it'll all click again, but I don't think pretending this year was a pass is the right thing to do.
 

BruceFromBalnarring

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 13, 2007
8,850
10,940
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
On Hayward a bit more. I tend to agree with Ceaser88 when we talk about where Hayward is best. He's not particularly skilful when passing, and he's a slow decision maker. He is a lovely mark and obviously has good work ethic.

He is amazing in front of goals, and seems to have a deeper understanding inside 50 than any of our other players (ignoring the run down tackle).

His set shots have also been not great.

I really think his tools are not suited to being up the ground, and any time spend in defence should only be there to prepare him to be forward. Just needs to average 15 disposals, and probably needs a better team to really start getting back to his earlier form.

I love Hayward, and I really think it'll all click again, but I don't think pretending this year was a pass is the right thing to do.
I think Hayward, like Heeney, is a forward.
I think we’ll see some hangers from him in coming years.
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
20,391
24,973
AFL Club
Sydney
Hayward lifted when he got moved near the ball more, playing in our forward line he looked like Rohan mark 2

hope he takes a step next year
Half agree half don't agree.

He does look like Rohan 2.0 when he's strictly forward, but that's basically the only time he can use his strengths.

Get him up around the ball more as a half forward/wingman type and it just gives him more opportunity to do really silly things.

There's just not much we can do with him and in basically every role he is suited to, there's someone better at it.
 

The King!

Chosen One
Aug 3, 2004
111,125
95,985
Backwater
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Cavs, Redsox, Patriots
Half agree half don't agree.

He does look like Rohan 2.0 when he's strictly forward, but that's basically the only time he can use his strengths.

Get him up around the ball more as a half forward/wingman type and it just gives him more opportunity to do really silly things.

There's just not much we can do with him and in basically every role he is suited to, there's someone better at it.
he’s a good ordinary player let’s be honest

will be developing for the next 10 years basically doing the same thing contributing a bit and best 22 which is fine
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

BloodySwan

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2016
5,221
9,210
AFL Club
Sydney
he’s a good ordinary player let’s be honest

will be developing for the next 10 years basically doing the same thing contributing a bit and best 22 which is fine
I don't really rate Hayward. I feel like I'm in the strong minority here. He certainly pops up at times and has some strong performances but mostly he goes missing for large periods
 

Bear31

All Australian
Feb 15, 2020
918
1,175
AFL Club
Sydney
I don't really rate Hayward. I feel like I'm in the strong minority here. He certainly pops up at times and has some strong performances but mostly he goes missing for large periods
I think in a premiership team he would be a star. Don't throw him away yet
 

mtooler

Premiership Player
Feb 5, 2012
4,377
4,354
AFL Club
Sydney
We were very unlucky this year in that while we are a bottom 4 list with young players we want to get games into, the offseason training was limited, shorter as were games. In a typical year we may have got greater development out of our list than we did this year, which was bugger all really.
 

LukeParkerno1

Premium Platinum
Sep 23, 2005
118,996
46,984
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney Swans
We were very unlucky this year in that while we are a bottom 4 list with young players we want to get games into, the offseason training was limited, shorter as were games. In a typical year we may have got greater development out of our list than we did this year, which was bugger all really.
Proof will probably be next year but I can't agree we got little development. Think a lot of players improved and our squad in general did.
 

bungee

Trump sore loser. Stop tweeting BS and get over it
Aug 16, 2006
6,678
7,876
Doing donuts on a Trump golf course
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
I follow no other, only Swans
Pretty much in line with expectations despite a sh*te run of injuries. Love the style of game the team is playing. The shorter season hindered our development but next season and we add 484 games of experience across the team. More if we make finals.
 

Ralphyboy

Team Captain
May 25, 2016
493
1,143
AFL Club
Sydney
I delivered my assessment weeks ago.

Controversially,

THEY (many) NEED to hit the gym .......with HEAVY WEIGHTS!

Rowbum, Stephens, Florent, Blakey, McInnerney, Wicks, et al

HEAVY! Both to balance leg and upper body!

Bulk UP!

Also need a true professional sprint coach - even if iterant part time!


It is faster but more harder at the ball

Also powerful straight handballls not lolly popops!


Go the Swannies!
Respect your perspective, but often the downside is a loss of speed. The optimum is maximum strength, minimum weight.
 

mtooler

Premiership Player
Feb 5, 2012
4,377
4,354
AFL Club
Sydney
Yep


It was after the Hawthorn game. Two matches after that he got relegated to the wing, then HF.

To be honest though I thought Florent's form was dropping off even before the article, so I found it slightly odd reading at the time.
To be honest I never think he's had form. Leader of our midfield reference almost made me violently ill.
 

mtooler

Premiership Player
Feb 5, 2012
4,377
4,354
AFL Club
Sydney
Proof will probably be next year but I can't agree we got little development. Think a lot of players improved and our squad in general did.
I reckon we are probably list strength 17th out of 18. We need to outpace all other teams in development aside from Roos, no way did we see that, many players stagnated or went backwards if that was even possible for Florent.
 

Remove this Banner Ad