Well said. We need a bit of competitive mongrel. With Mitch gone we are just pillow fighters.
Review Season in review 2022
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Unless there is a cookie cutter coach that gives 100% success rate, this is just attributing success to certain characteristics. Or maybe i'm wrong and every single winning coach has being a tough-nut hard-arse. If that's the case why are we off in Kumbaya-land??
Maybe i'm overcomplicating things, but to simplify the success of a team as to how hard/tough/whatever the coach is doesn't make sense to me.
Ruthlessness maybe isn't the go-to for Fagan and his personnel selection, but then you kind of completely brush over the important aspects of backing a player in to 'come good'. But then I was on the Lyons train until it was basically a wreck
I do see Fagan as ruthless in the ability to give a spray. You could argue not enough, judging by some of our capitulations and how we didn't turn things around, but again that's just proscribing just one aspect to the result of a game.
In the end it does indeed come down solely to the coach. But I'd rather look at things more broadly. I do agree Fagan does need to readjust his method of match selections to some degree. And i'm confident in the internal year review that will be a big point.
Also, do people believe it was only this year when Chris Scott made a significant change to his coaching temperament that makes them look so formidable, compared to the last 7+ years when they've looked very good but just haven't made it each time? I'm pretty sure Scott has been a ruthless coach that entire time.
Are we going to make a grand final with this team? If you aren’t improving you are going backwards.
- May 3, 2015
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Yes but fundamentally we’re doing most things very well And unfortunately there are mechanisms like the draft and salary cap that limits continual improvement. We did win as many finals this year as we had in the previous 17 years combined
I think our coaches do need to be more ruthless. In particular with certain players, and expected standards.
Joe Daniher:
We need him playing with the intensity that he started the year with.
Regardless of his shoulder, it is not an excuse for:
Too often he flew way too early for marks, giving away silly frees.
Too often flopped for free kicks.
Even his uncle Terry commented publicly recently that his efforts need to improve.
Darcy Gardiner:
Good finals series.
But during the H&A season, regularly gave away stupid free kicks, and 50s, like running into the back of Daicos late.
Often 2-3 times a game would do something undisciplined or turn the ball over with poor disposal through what appeared to be a lack of focus.
Undisciplined.
Harris Andrews:
90% of the time he is on. He was very good during the finals series.
When he’s not 100% focused and committed he lets himself and team down.
He has the talent and capability to be AA again if the desire is there.
Jarrod Berry:
one our best 5 players when he puts his mind to it, and is fully committed to the contest.
I saw it one game when Tom Berry played, Jarrod increased his effort considerably. He needs to play at this level consistently.
Lincoln McCarthy may not have had his best year, but I can’t question his effort and work rate.
Look at Craig Bellamy from the Storm. Demands the absolute highest of effort and discipline.
At half time v cats..down by 5 goals..it was almost like during the 3rd Q this is all too hard. Not convinced we put in our best effort.
Compare this to Cwood who were also down 5 goals at half time, and how they didn’t drop off.
Getting better is not about bringing in 1 or 2 players via trade. This will help a little. Improvement needs to come from within, and all players meeting standards.
Joe Daniher:
We need him playing with the intensity that he started the year with.
Regardless of his shoulder, it is not an excuse for:
Too often he flew way too early for marks, giving away silly frees.
Too often flopped for free kicks.
Even his uncle Terry commented publicly recently that his efforts need to improve.
Darcy Gardiner:
Good finals series.
But during the H&A season, regularly gave away stupid free kicks, and 50s, like running into the back of Daicos late.
Often 2-3 times a game would do something undisciplined or turn the ball over with poor disposal through what appeared to be a lack of focus.
Undisciplined.
Harris Andrews:
90% of the time he is on. He was very good during the finals series.
When he’s not 100% focused and committed he lets himself and team down.
He has the talent and capability to be AA again if the desire is there.
Jarrod Berry:
one our best 5 players when he puts his mind to it, and is fully committed to the contest.
I saw it one game when Tom Berry played, Jarrod increased his effort considerably. He needs to play at this level consistently.
Lincoln McCarthy may not have had his best year, but I can’t question his effort and work rate.
Look at Craig Bellamy from the Storm. Demands the absolute highest of effort and discipline.
At half time v cats..down by 5 goals..it was almost like during the 3rd Q this is all too hard. Not convinced we put in our best effort.
Compare this to Cwood who were also down 5 goals at half time, and how they didn’t drop off.
Getting better is not about bringing in 1 or 2 players via trade. This will help a little. Improvement needs to come from within, and all players meeting standards.
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Can someone pass on to Fages that he needs to tell the players to play well? Mighty Lions ?
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We fell short of pre-season expectations, but on adjusted expectations as the season progressed you'd say the year was a success; two finals wins, and overcoming the MCG hoodoo and Melbourne are strong ticks.
Positives
Rayner and Hipwood coming back from ACLs. They weren't consistent but showed glimpses at various stages.
Coleman was the most improved and will be AA next year.
Neale.
The J.Berry game; now we know what he is capable of.
Negatives
One-dimensional coaching and match committee throughout the regular season probably cost us top 4.
Related to above but we missed opportunities to get games into players like Dev Rob and Wilmot.
Zorko, Rich and Robbo can't deliver what they used to, and not enough others stepped up.
Defensively the midfield was a disaster, and we wasted another Brownlow-calibre season from Lachie.
Defensive transition.
The three talls didn't deliver; I think the combo of Joe injured, Eric coming back from injury and Dan dealing with the pressure of free agency was a perfect storm. We'll probably reflect on these two years with the three talls as a missed opportunity.
Next year
No reason we can't be top 4 again and contend for the flag with the inclusion of Ashcroft and possibly Dunkley. We need a healthy Daniher to combat the strong defences of Melbourne/Geelong. Bit worried about our defence but Payne (especially through the finals) has shown he can at least cover injuries to Adams/Gardiner.
Positives
Rayner and Hipwood coming back from ACLs. They weren't consistent but showed glimpses at various stages.
Coleman was the most improved and will be AA next year.
Neale.
The J.Berry game; now we know what he is capable of.
Negatives
One-dimensional coaching and match committee throughout the regular season probably cost us top 4.
Related to above but we missed opportunities to get games into players like Dev Rob and Wilmot.
Zorko, Rich and Robbo can't deliver what they used to, and not enough others stepped up.
Defensively the midfield was a disaster, and we wasted another Brownlow-calibre season from Lachie.
Defensive transition.
The three talls didn't deliver; I think the combo of Joe injured, Eric coming back from injury and Dan dealing with the pressure of free agency was a perfect storm. We'll probably reflect on these two years with the three talls as a missed opportunity.
Next year
No reason we can't be top 4 again and contend for the flag with the inclusion of Ashcroft and possibly Dunkley. We need a healthy Daniher to combat the strong defences of Melbourne/Geelong. Bit worried about our defence but Payne (especially through the finals) has shown he can at least cover injuries to Adams/Gardiner.
Trying to be a pathetic troll in a review thread. A thread that has been created to generate discussion on the year that was. Your posts are disappointing brownie point winning jabs to your fellow supporters. Be better.
- May 3, 2015
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Do you know what a troll is? Some self awareness please
I never put down fellow supporters with cheap throw away posts that are meant to ridicule or bait like you do. It's a pathetic behaviour. Be better.
Sausages
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Well.
Up forward, I'd like to see 2 talls, either side of CHF roaming up towards D50. CHF can be vacant or chuck a gorilla in there, depending on specific matchups.
Fagan's Fields, aka Pagan's Paddock, for CC to play in. Gimme Linc in a fwd pocket all day, where his natural athleticism, strong-for-size body, superb leap, goal sense, and ground level agility are best used - putting Linc in open space isn't always ideal, as dynamic, explosive pace isn't something he has in spades. I'd like Zorko fulltime in the fwd line too please.
In the middle I confess to never having seen Ashcroft play, thus am unable to comment on the midfield, given his popularity in the preceding commentary
Defensively, it is possible we are going to lose Darcy. I'm gonna throw a curveball at y'all, if this happens....Joe at CHB
Up forward, I'd like to see 2 talls, either side of CHF roaming up towards D50. CHF can be vacant or chuck a gorilla in there, depending on specific matchups.
Fagan's Fields, aka Pagan's Paddock, for CC to play in. Gimme Linc in a fwd pocket all day, where his natural athleticism, strong-for-size body, superb leap, goal sense, and ground level agility are best used - putting Linc in open space isn't always ideal, as dynamic, explosive pace isn't something he has in spades. I'd like Zorko fulltime in the fwd line too please.
In the middle I confess to never having seen Ashcroft play, thus am unable to comment on the midfield, given his popularity in the preceding commentary
Defensively, it is possible we are going to lose Darcy. I'm gonna throw a curveball at y'all, if this happens....Joe at CHB
I haven't watched the replay and wont be but at the ground it appeared as though Cam Rayner played a fantastic 1st quarter, great signs for next season, with another pre season under his belt I'm expecting Cam to have a "breakout" 2023.
I was also impressed with the way Jack Payne played on the night although he was on Rohan and not a KPF.
I was also impressed with the way Jack Payne played on the night although he was on Rohan and not a KPF.
rye
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payne has a great set of hands. another preseason to work on using his body to outwork forwards and he will be a great asset
1 big positive is K.Coleman. We've instantly replaced Rich with another Rich
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My take on the year, player by player. Part III
McInerney - a solid year and showing his combative nature. Even when beaten in the ruck contest he still works hard to give value. Won’t be an elite ruck but remains very good - B+ And hopefully he can hold his form and stay fit next season.
McStay - presumable will be gone. Credit to him for his development over the last couple of seasons. We are probably making the right decision to let him go for a contract we can’t match. A Bgrade year with a couple of brief patches of A- but I think we know what we are letting go.
Michael - definitely has shown some ability in the role he plays. A quality contributor at VFL level until injury and surgery. Hopefully a very good preseason to come and then another run in the firsts at some point while he develops at VFL level. Worth the investment of time I think. B grade season until injury. B+ next season is not beyond him.
Neale - what needs to be said. Will continue to work hard to improve from his already-elite level and his standard of preparation and professionalism is the standard we need. The next challenge will be to work through hard tags and still have high impact. A+
Payne - has been a slow burn but showing increasing signs of confidence. Too physically good not to invest the time in, but it may well take more time. Really needs to play at AFL level from now on. B grade but needs to get to B+ next year.
Prior - a mixed season but signs he can develop into a solid contributor at worst and an important team member at best. The right size for a few roles. On the fringe now and really needs to make himself harder to leave out of the best 22. A season at B level but showed a few signs he has a higher ceiling than that.
Rayner - a good year coming back from major injury and got a lot better as his confidence grew. Really shaping as a crucial player and still developing. The attributes he has make him potentially one of the most explosive and damaging players in the game. B+ but A grade is more than achievable next season. Time to put it all together Cam!
McInerney - a solid year and showing his combative nature. Even when beaten in the ruck contest he still works hard to give value. Won’t be an elite ruck but remains very good - B+ And hopefully he can hold his form and stay fit next season.
McStay - presumable will be gone. Credit to him for his development over the last couple of seasons. We are probably making the right decision to let him go for a contract we can’t match. A Bgrade year with a couple of brief patches of A- but I think we know what we are letting go.
Michael - definitely has shown some ability in the role he plays. A quality contributor at VFL level until injury and surgery. Hopefully a very good preseason to come and then another run in the firsts at some point while he develops at VFL level. Worth the investment of time I think. B grade season until injury. B+ next season is not beyond him.
Neale - what needs to be said. Will continue to work hard to improve from his already-elite level and his standard of preparation and professionalism is the standard we need. The next challenge will be to work through hard tags and still have high impact. A+
Payne - has been a slow burn but showing increasing signs of confidence. Too physically good not to invest the time in, but it may well take more time. Really needs to play at AFL level from now on. B grade but needs to get to B+ next year.
Prior - a mixed season but signs he can develop into a solid contributor at worst and an important team member at best. The right size for a few roles. On the fringe now and really needs to make himself harder to leave out of the best 22. A season at B level but showed a few signs he has a higher ceiling than that.
Rayner - a good year coming back from major injury and got a lot better as his confidence grew. Really shaping as a crucial player and still developing. The attributes he has make him potentially one of the most explosive and damaging players in the game. B+ but A grade is more than achievable next season. Time to put it all together Cam!
- Thread starter
- #117
So Robbo is retiring. Does make it a little odd that we didn’t allow him to announce that then during the season. Plenty of players have announced they’re retiring after their club finishes their season eg Joey Kennedy at the Swans this week.
Still doesn’t justify his tweet Friday night though and putting that out there before his teammates had probably even got off the ground, but maybe something happened behind the scenes that we’ll never know about.
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Maybe Mitch thought a club out there would take him on for another season and he has only just realised there is no interest so the decision to retire was made in the last day or 2.
3KZ is Football
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From Fox Footy
4. BRISBANE (15-7, 119.3% - lost in preliminary final to Geelong)
Three word analysis
Lions caged again
What went right
Aside from the two beltings by Melbourne in the home and away season, Brisbane lost only five other matches – by an average of just 9.2 points per game. The Lions were the second-highest scoring team in 2022 – behind only Richmond – and ranked number one in the competition for goal efficiency. Their centre clearance work, led by Brownlow Medallist Lachie Neale, was their biggest weapon, as they finished behind only the Western Bulldogs (13.9) and Richmond (13.8) on average per game with 13.7. The Lions were able to debut youngsters like Kai Lohmann and Darcy Wilmot, the latter who played his first game in a final and then held his spot. Ultimately, the Lions were considered one of the premiership contenders pre-season and showed they have the game to match it with the best. Winning two finals this year is another big boost for Chris Fagan’s side, who have notoriously bowed out meekly come September. The recruitment of Darcy Fort proved a win for the club as he admirably stepped up the ruck every time he was called upon. Fort played 18 games – after managing only eight in two seasons at the Cats.
What went wrong
The Lions didn’t do enough to lock in a top four finish in the home and away rounds – and it cost them dearly as they ran out of steam against the Cats. Two do-or-die wins in the lead up to the preliminary final clearly took its toll as Brisbane’s 2022 season came to an end.
Against the Cats, the Lions’ forward line, which was the second highest scoring team in 2022, just didn’t fire a shot. Joe Daniher didn’t have an impact and was criticized post-match for his “low footy IQ”. Their backline, missing Marcus Adams after his late season concussion, could not stem the points from the Cats’ attack end – particularly their small forwards. Brandon Starcevich has been impressive all year with his lockdown roles in defence, but he can’t do it solo. Despite having the high-scoring attack end characterized by three talls, it was Charlie Cameron who did the damage for Brisbane with 54 goals for the season – 15 more than the next best in Daniher. Eric Hipwood may have stepped up in the finals, but only kicked multiple goals in four of his 14 home and away games this year. The Lions were fourth last for average disposals in 2022 – with only West Coast, North Melbourne and Gold Coast below them. And they were ranked fourth last for disposal efficiency this season.
What they need
Brisbane need to be the winners in the Dan McStay deal, in terms of the compensation. Losing a key forward hurts – but losing one you’ve pumped nine years and 160+ games into is a tough loss. The Lions’ forward set up has focused on a tall attack end, with just Charlie Cameron playing the small role. But Fox Footy’s Nick Riewoldt believes Brisbane’s forward line functions better minus a tall – as they did without Joe Daniher in the semi final win over Melbourne. So the loss of McStay could actually work in Brisbane’s favour – if they can get something of value for the forward. He is a free agent meaning compensation is on offer depending on the size of his deal, and they’d love an end-of-first-round pick. They ranked 11th for tackles inside 50 in another sign an extra small forward could balance the attack end. We know prized young talent Will Ashcroft has opted to go to Brisbane as a father-son pick, so his acquisition will bolster an ageing midfield. Jaspa Fletcher, son of Adrian Fletcher, is another young mid to land at the Lions. Another small forward or versatile back – to eventually replace the likes of veteran Dan Rich or a Darcy Gardiner, given his future is unclear, could set the Lions up for the future.
What time is it on the premiership clock?
11pm: Brisbane have lost just 23 of their 83 home and away matches in the past four seasons in a remarkable show of strength. But for all their dominance under coach Chris Fagan, the Lions have no silverware to show for it. Two preliminary finals exits at the hands of Geelong and two straight sets exits in 2019 and 2021 have ensured Brisbane are still without a grand final appearance in almost two decades. The Lions have the spine to contend, but questions were asked of star defender Harris Andrews in 2022 and Joe Daniher’s hot start to the year faded after his shoulder injury. The worry with Brisbane in 2023 is their depth, considering they’ve had a relatively quiet few years on the injury front.
Season grade
B-
4. BRISBANE (15-7, 119.3% - lost in preliminary final to Geelong)
Three word analysis
Lions caged again
What went right
Aside from the two beltings by Melbourne in the home and away season, Brisbane lost only five other matches – by an average of just 9.2 points per game. The Lions were the second-highest scoring team in 2022 – behind only Richmond – and ranked number one in the competition for goal efficiency. Their centre clearance work, led by Brownlow Medallist Lachie Neale, was their biggest weapon, as they finished behind only the Western Bulldogs (13.9) and Richmond (13.8) on average per game with 13.7. The Lions were able to debut youngsters like Kai Lohmann and Darcy Wilmot, the latter who played his first game in a final and then held his spot. Ultimately, the Lions were considered one of the premiership contenders pre-season and showed they have the game to match it with the best. Winning two finals this year is another big boost for Chris Fagan’s side, who have notoriously bowed out meekly come September. The recruitment of Darcy Fort proved a win for the club as he admirably stepped up the ruck every time he was called upon. Fort played 18 games – after managing only eight in two seasons at the Cats.
What went wrong
The Lions didn’t do enough to lock in a top four finish in the home and away rounds – and it cost them dearly as they ran out of steam against the Cats. Two do-or-die wins in the lead up to the preliminary final clearly took its toll as Brisbane’s 2022 season came to an end.
Against the Cats, the Lions’ forward line, which was the second highest scoring team in 2022, just didn’t fire a shot. Joe Daniher didn’t have an impact and was criticized post-match for his “low footy IQ”. Their backline, missing Marcus Adams after his late season concussion, could not stem the points from the Cats’ attack end – particularly their small forwards. Brandon Starcevich has been impressive all year with his lockdown roles in defence, but he can’t do it solo. Despite having the high-scoring attack end characterized by three talls, it was Charlie Cameron who did the damage for Brisbane with 54 goals for the season – 15 more than the next best in Daniher. Eric Hipwood may have stepped up in the finals, but only kicked multiple goals in four of his 14 home and away games this year. The Lions were fourth last for average disposals in 2022 – with only West Coast, North Melbourne and Gold Coast below them. And they were ranked fourth last for disposal efficiency this season.
What they need
Brisbane need to be the winners in the Dan McStay deal, in terms of the compensation. Losing a key forward hurts – but losing one you’ve pumped nine years and 160+ games into is a tough loss. The Lions’ forward set up has focused on a tall attack end, with just Charlie Cameron playing the small role. But Fox Footy’s Nick Riewoldt believes Brisbane’s forward line functions better minus a tall – as they did without Joe Daniher in the semi final win over Melbourne. So the loss of McStay could actually work in Brisbane’s favour – if they can get something of value for the forward. He is a free agent meaning compensation is on offer depending on the size of his deal, and they’d love an end-of-first-round pick. They ranked 11th for tackles inside 50 in another sign an extra small forward could balance the attack end. We know prized young talent Will Ashcroft has opted to go to Brisbane as a father-son pick, so his acquisition will bolster an ageing midfield. Jaspa Fletcher, son of Adrian Fletcher, is another young mid to land at the Lions. Another small forward or versatile back – to eventually replace the likes of veteran Dan Rich or a Darcy Gardiner, given his future is unclear, could set the Lions up for the future.
What time is it on the premiership clock?
11pm: Brisbane have lost just 23 of their 83 home and away matches in the past four seasons in a remarkable show of strength. But for all their dominance under coach Chris Fagan, the Lions have no silverware to show for it. Two preliminary finals exits at the hands of Geelong and two straight sets exits in 2019 and 2021 have ensured Brisbane are still without a grand final appearance in almost two decades. The Lions have the spine to contend, but questions were asked of star defender Harris Andrews in 2022 and Joe Daniher’s hot start to the year faded after his shoulder injury. The worry with Brisbane in 2023 is their depth, considering they’ve had a relatively quiet few years on the injury front.
Season grade
B-
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DERRINALPHIL
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Fagan's press conference to finish the year is a worry to me. He should have stated that efforts like that are unacceptable. We used to have games like that years ago when we were crap. He said he was going to talk about the positive! Delusional?
We have a very good list so why did we have three games where we lost by over ten goals? Others have pointed out the complete lack of flexibility during most of the year when it was obvious that we were not quite a premiership threat.
We need a better effort, not from the bench, but from the coaches' box where Fagan might be able to see a global view of the game if he ever sat there. He talks about looking at the replays a lot because there is so much more you see higher up that is invisible from lower down.
I am no longer on the Fagan bandwagon. The directors need to ask what went wrong and how is he going to change?
DERRINALPHIL
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What are you purring in your sausages, Sausages?Well.
Up forward, I'd like to see 2 talls, either side of CHF roaming up towards D50. CHF can be vacant or chuck a gorilla in there, depending on specific matchups.
Fagan's Fields, aka Pagan's Paddock, for CC to play in. Gimme Linc in a fwd pocket all day, where his natural athleticism, strong-for-size body, superb leap, goal sense, and ground level agility are best used - putting Linc in open space isn't always ideal, as dynamic, explosive pace isn't something he has in spades. I'd like Zorko fulltime in the fwd line too please.
In the middle I confess to never having seen Ashcroft play, thus am unable to comment on the midfield, given his popularity in the preceding commentary
Defensively, it is possible we are going to lose Darcy. I'm gonna throw a curveball at y'all, if this happens....Joe at CHB
DERRINALPHIL
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Thank God for school holidays. What about coach holidays?
Fages has done a great job to get us where we are and obviously he is a good coach. Whatever his failings might be , and one of them seems to be he's a bit stubborn, I'm not in a position to say whether he needs to change , get better help or can't take us any further etc because like most others I'm unaware of what really happens at the coalface within this club.
But what I will say is that his pressers after we get belted are in La La Land and are starting to grate on supporters I know. Most with a strong footy background and not given to going off at all.
Just say it was an insipid performance , not acceptable and we need to be better. We had a chance to showcase ourselves in our biggest game of the year and didn't play anywhere near enough to the standard we can . All of which is true. OK trot out a few excuses and talk about how good the opposition were but the centrepiece of why we lost was that we put in a very poor performance.
Just be honest. It'll make his life a lot easier in the future.
But what I will say is that his pressers after we get belted are in La La Land and are starting to grate on supporters I know. Most with a strong footy background and not given to going off at all.
Just say it was an insipid performance , not acceptable and we need to be better. We had a chance to showcase ourselves in our biggest game of the year and didn't play anywhere near enough to the standard we can . All of which is true. OK trot out a few excuses and talk about how good the opposition were but the centrepiece of why we lost was that we put in a very poor performance.
Just be honest. It'll make his life a lot easier in the future.
Sausages
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Mate, I'm a ******* soothsayer and footy savant
With Joe at CHB, we'd never lose a game and win the next 7 flags - nobody, including us, would know wtf was gonna happen at any moment
We don’t know how Fages addresses the performance issues within the 4 walls. I don’t find any comfort from a coach publicly lashing his players in a post match presser when he is obviously upset and has not had a chance to even talk to his players.
I am more than happy with his pressers - very polished performer, win, lose or draw… must be bloody hard yakka after a bad loss.
