Mat Mann
significantly pleased himself
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yup rumor has the GP same day, 1 week later than normalSame day as the Grand Prix?
Seriously
Preview Season Opener; "The War In Heaven": Etihad Stadium (H), Saturday 25 March 2017, 4;35pm
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ChrisRyanSaints
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WANT THIS WIN, BADLY!! They dont have a matchup for Membrey and their SLOW midfield cant handle reiwoldt, stevens, Gresham or Acres.
I think this is why we win. We are tougher than them which is their thing for the midfield and we are faster which just seals it.
Carlisle or Brown to finally shut down Hogan. Think how pumped theyll be to impress on the yougn gun!! We are much more balanced. Too many targets, too tough and too fast in the midfield.
We have Lions at etihad RND 3 so get this win and could be a very good start to the season. I know getting ahead of myself but come on we are clearly the better team we should start expecting to win. Lets go to the next level (top4-6)
I think this is why we win. We are tougher than them which is their thing for the midfield and we are faster which just seals it.
Carlisle or Brown to finally shut down Hogan. Think how pumped theyll be to impress on the yougn gun!! We are much more balanced. Too many targets, too tough and too fast in the midfield.
We have Lions at etihad RND 3 so get this win and could be a very good start to the season. I know getting ahead of myself but come on we are clearly the better team we should start expecting to win. Lets go to the next level (top4-6)
PoppedCorn
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I won't be
I don't think we are tougher than them, they've got stacks of inside mids and we don't.
Although he was cut them up on the outside recently and they will struggle to stop roo, paddy and skunk. While we can finally stop Hogan.
I might be biased but I am not sure I think we do have a worse top 6 to be honest. I would argue that Roo is still as good as Hogan, Steven is the best mid across both teams and Carlisle is probably the best defender on the ground. The only clear advantage for them on paper is in the ruck and Hickey was outstanding against Gawn last year.
Personally I think our top 6 is better.
Roo, Steven, Carlisle, Montagna, Dempster & Armitage (maybe Newnes now)
Versus:
Hogan, Gawn, Viney, Lewis, Jones & maybe Watts or McDonald?
On paper I like ours, although clearly Melbournes better players are in a more desirable age bracket.
For all the hype about their young up and coming midfield, is it really more promising than ours? Gresham, Acres, Dunstan, Steele & Billings matches up okay against Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver and co.
I may eat my words but I think we are straight up better than them.
- Apr 1, 2015
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Cmon man petracca brayshaw and oliver are under 20 years old and all top 5 picks, enough said right there..not mentioning viney, jones, tyson and to a lesser extent Vince, Trengrove and now lewis; their midfield is clearly above ours...
Stan_Darsh72
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Oh thou father in heaven who has Jeans and Baldock as advisers please allow our Saints to bainsh these deemons away from the relm of docklands and let us fine saints march on towards a September dream
Amen
Amen
ChrisRyanSaints
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Huh? Everytime we play them we monster them. I honestly dont see how we arent tougher?
Why is being drafted high enough said? Don't get caught up in the high draft pick hype. For example, who would you rather:
Brayshaw or Gresham?
I would take Gresham over Brayshaw. Oliver is a good player but would you swap Oliver for Acres just because he was a pick 3? Personally, I would not trade Oliver for Acres at all.
The next logical comparison would be Billings v Petracca. Both forward/mids with Petracca more adept at running through the middle at the moment. I would definitely give the nod to the Dees in that comparison.
You are then left with Steven, Armitage, Dunstan, Steele, Ross, Montagna v Viney, Jones, Tyson, Vince & Trengrove.
For starters Trengrove is an absolute plodder so it is pointless even comparing him to anybody as we win. Vince is not as good as Montagna, Armitage and Jones is pretty even, Viney is much better than both Dunstan and Steele at this stage, but who is better than Jack Steven? Comfortably the best mid across both teams.
If you put the media hype and high draft picks aside and break it down player by player, I struggle to see how their midfield in "miles" in front. They might bat a little bit deeper (not so sure now after adding Steel and Stevens) but there are only so many slow inside midfielders you can play in 1 team. Which brings me to my last point:
Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Jones & Viney are all good players but it is not an ideal combination. They are all inside types with average foot skills. Lewis is the only mid they have that I would say is well above average by foot, but he is treacle slow. Slow midfield overall + average foot skills does not equal awesome.
We have a far better blend brewing. Stevens provides speed whilst Gresh and Billings are both elite users. Montagna provides some gut run if rotated through the middle, whilst Acres, Dunstan, Steele and Ross can provide the grunt work in the middle.
Our midfield cut them to ribbons both times we played them last year, I see no reason to believe it won't happen again.
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ChrisRyanSaints
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Spot on!!!
Gresham or Oliver
Acres or Petracca
Steven or Viney
Steel or Brayshaw
Dunstan or Jones
Stevens or Vince
Armitage or Lewis
Billings or Tyson
Reiwoldt or Bugg???
How are we not better? I think overall we are. Better balanced. Height speed inside and outside players.
If you cant agree with that SURELY you agree we are not that far off or at least equal???
This myth about demons having all the talent is BS.
Smashing them the last 2 years isnt a fluke especially when the average would be what 5 goals?
I wrote most of this post before I saw that Bill had responded (above) but I'll post it anyway:
Petracca will probably play mostly forward due to the fact that they do have strong inside stocks (especially since Lewis is now on board and not really suited to many other roles, like Viney and Tyson aren't), so you'd probably need to be comparing him to Billings and I think we stack up OK there, with that being the case, especially since JB has one more preseason on him.
Tyson's numbers and so-on were almost identical to Seb's this year and they're the exact same age.
Vince, like Joey for us, played pretty much exclusively across HB this year, as far as I'm aware, and will probably continue to do so next year, so unless you're going to include Joey in the midfield discussion (which I wouldn't), I don't think it's reasonable to include Vince in theirs.
Trengrove, really? If we're going to include him, we might as well include Nathan Freeman in the discussion. Chances are they'll both be playing in the VFL though and as such it's a discussion as to who has the better midfield out of Sandy and Casey!
I really rate Melbourne's prospective midfield going forward (at least their inside stocks) but if Armo has a full enough preseason and gets back closer to his 2015 best, Acres continues his rapid progression, Stevens plays the sort of footy that saw him get Brownlow votes in a quarter of his games this year and so-on, our midfield could be significantly better than it was this year and as Bill said, I'd suggest ours is better balanced, quicker and with more variety.
I definitely see us having a big advantage on the wings in particular, with Riewoldt on one and the very solid and consistent (and excellent by foot) Newnes on the other, with a hopefully much improved Billings also going through there.
A few points here, Brayshaw is not under 20yo, he's almost 21yo and so far in his career averages just 14 disposals per game, which suggests that at this point in time and until he proves otherwise, he's on a similar level to Dunstan and Steele. Talented, but in need of actually producing.
Petracca will probably play mostly forward due to the fact that they do have strong inside stocks (especially since Lewis is now on board and not really suited to many other roles, like Viney and Tyson aren't), so you'd probably need to be comparing him to Billings and I think we stack up OK there, with that being the case, especially since JB has one more preseason on him.
Tyson's numbers and so-on were almost identical to Seb's this year and they're the exact same age.
Vince, like Joey for us, played pretty much exclusively across HB this year, as far as I'm aware, and will probably continue to do so next year, so unless you're going to include Joey in the midfield discussion (which I wouldn't), I don't think it's reasonable to include Vince in theirs.
Trengrove, really? If we're going to include him, we might as well include Nathan Freeman in the discussion. Chances are they'll both be playing in the VFL though and as such it's a discussion as to who has the better midfield out of Sandy and Casey!
I really rate Melbourne's prospective midfield going forward (at least their inside stocks) but if Armo has a full enough preseason and gets back closer to his 2015 best, Acres continues his rapid progression, Stevens plays the sort of footy that saw him get Brownlow votes in a quarter of his games this year and so-on, our midfield could be significantly better than it was this year and as Bill said, I'd suggest ours is better balanced, quicker and with more variety.
I definitely see us having a big advantage on the wings in particular, with Riewoldt on one and the very solid and consistent (and excellent by foot) Newnes on the other, with a hopefully much improved Billings also going through there.
Where did you hear or see this? Would be awesome if true.
I reckon it's more
Steven v Viney
Armitage v Lewis
Ross v Tyson
Stevens v Jones
Acres v Oliver
Dunstan v Brayshaw
Riewoldt v Stretch
Newnes v Bugg
Gresham v Petracca
Billings v Salem
Gilbert v Vandenberg
Steele v ANB
Weller v Melksham
In the long run theirs may end up better, but I'm pretty comfortable with how we stack up in the immediate term (we win some, they win some, a lot look pretty even) and the midfield depth looks pretty much identical to me.
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Diehard Saint
Brownlow Medallist
Not to mention a clear psychological advantage we have over them.
Just ask Ox
Just ask Ox
ChrisRyanSaints
Team Captain
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Good work sir, that is terrific news that we have two extremely winnable games in the first 3.
Had a prick of a draw to start the year this year and it put us on the back foot and constantly playing catch-up, but a softer start to 2017 could help us to get off to a bit of a flier if we're good enough.
ChrisRyanSaints
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Yep agree. Maybe the AFL feeling sorry for us after the dogs win or see how great it is a minnow team wins the flag?
Lol. I know its round 1 and 3 but we MUST win those games to make finals you would think.
I don't see him getting a game with us, after Mav "The Chin" Weller inevitably flattens him at practice he wouldn't be able to get up for the game.
Being as impartial as I can be (Melbourne supporters who read this please chime in and tell me if I rate one of your blokes wrong) I reckon we stack up decently given the circumstances.
Steven is better than Viney easily.
Not too sure if Armo and Lewis are comparable as I see Lewis playing more as a flanker for the Dee's than in an under like Armo. I'd say Lewis is better off half back and Armo in the centre.
Ross vs Tyson was pretty similar. Checked the stats and Tyson has played 12 more games and averages 2 more possessions but Ross had a better season last. I'll give it to Tyson but they're quite similar players.
Jones is better than Kobe no questions
I know the Dee's rate Oliver pretty high but we rate Acres pretty highly too. Honestly Oliver was a bolter in his draft year and I like his game but bias wins here Acres
Brayshaw should be better than Luke.
Have Newnes ahead of Bugg comfortably
Riewoldt next
Love Gresh but Petracca should be top 5 player at his peak.
Billings is better than Salem comfortably
Not sure about Gilbo or Vanderberg (Tie I guess, don't see either adding much)
Steele, I liked ANB in his draft year but he just a tad vanilla to me, should be a 150 gamer though.
Weller is much better than bloody Melksham.
Have 7 to the Saints and 4 to the Dee's not including Armo vs Lewis and Gilbert vs VDB.
Just my main issue is that Jones for all of his leadership is quite easily replaced by the Dee's and we have no real youngster that is stepping up to replace Stuv (I'm resigned to the fact Riewoldt is irreplaceable).
I rate our spread better than there's (how we beat this this year) but they're a stronger team on the inside.
I think they have a higher concentration of "high end" talent, we have Paddy, Freeman and Billings which are top 10 picks whilst they have Petracca, Tyson, Brayshaw, Oliver, Salem, Weidman (Hogan if you want to count mini drafts as well). Our young talent is actually near the end of the first round and early second round with the likes of Dunstan, Acres, Dmac, Gresh, Steele etc..
Must be noted we were playing Grand Finals in 2009 and 2010 whilst the Dee's were at the bottom and rebuilding even then so in 2016 for both clubs to be arguably in the same position says a lot about how we're coached and how we drafted.
I have no issue with people saying Melbourne have a better talent cause on paper they do like we did in 04/05/09/10 and it counted for stuff all in the long run.
Sorry if this was incoherant
tl'dr: They tanked longer than us and got better draft picks but we're still doing alright
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On paper their midfield is better but obviously come game day theyve been getting it done since '07 so im not too worried
Persevering Saint
Brownlow Medallist
Who is going to kick their goals. In the last four matches we've played against them, they have scored, with Hogan contributing:
- Rnd 11, 2015: 12 Goals, Hogan kicking 5
- Rnd 17, 2015: 6 Goals, Hogan kicking 1 (which still made him one of their highest goal scorers!)
- Rnd 5, 2016: 15 Goals, Hogan kicking 7
- Rnd 17, 2016: 11 Goals, Hogan kicking 1
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
The Dees list still has a lot of potential locked up. Petracca and Oliver look like they could be super stars and they also have Viney, Bradshaw, Jones, Vince and Tyson. They then got Jordan Lewis and with Melksham and Gibbered they have a pretty good blend of experience and youth. Both us and them have a lot of potential tied up and will be interesting to see who goes further. We have a lot of very astute ring ins they probably have more blue chip drafting. Their VFL depth is probably suggesting they are a bit better with depth but we seem to have addressed a lot of holes in our list. Roos held them back I reckon and played youth. This game will be a cracker.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
The Weed should be a bit better this year and garlett goes okay.
Not when geary is on him
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