Preview Season Opener; "The War In Heaven": Etihad Stadium (H), Saturday 25 March 2017, 4;35pm

[Quixote]

What is this whole trademark thing? So Hickeys trademark is he works Gawn over? I don't really get that.

It's some internal trademarks visible on a whiteboard in the background of the video when Richo gives Gears the captaincy in front of the boys.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah, I believe they have more currently top-end talent in their midfield (all of Viney, Lewis, Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver, Tyson and Salem were drafted or bid on with top 10 picks- 7 of them! ) and Jones was just outside, from memory) and Gawn is the best of all the ruck options for the two teams, but outside of Gawn, they're very lacking- while we have Hickey and Longer who could both hold down the no.1 ruck role easily, IMO and then Holmes and Pierce as depth. We're possibly stronger on the wings though, especially this year, with Roo there.

Hogan, Weiderman and Watts is a potentially killer combo up forward down the track, but after them there's not much, whereas we have, for the time-being, Riewoldt, in case any of Paddy, Bruce or Membrey are missing and now we also have Battle, to develop as quality depth. Then we have Carlisle and Goddard who have that versatility to play up either end, which Melbourne don't really look to have.

I suspect we also have better depth in the forward flanks and pockets and possibly the back flanks and pockets as well and as stated, we have two first rounders in this upcoming draft, while they only have one and I imagine we also have more cap space than them, as they're now paying Hogan a fortune, while we aren't currently paying anyone that much and whoever is on the most has probably had their deal front-ended anyway, meaning most of it will have been paid by the end of this year.

Probably the one thing they have over us is that two of the top 4 in our B&F are now 34yo, while they aren't in a similar situation, although that does mean that when those two do retire for us, they will presumably open up a chunk of cap space, so if we say lose Riewoldt, but add a Martin or Fyfe, we won't feel it anywhere near as much. If we don't manage to land a Martin/Fyfe type this year, they could potentially go past us in 2018 for a year or two at least, until we do land a really "big fish".

Then it comes to the intangibles like culture and self belief. One of the reasons I was saying we could be as good or better than Melbourne last season (this time last year- when the Dees folk and plenty of others thought they had us covered) was the fact that we had so much more experience on our list, and in particular so many more who had played finals footy and/or grand finals. Plus we were not that far removed from a period where we were a very good team for a few years there, while they are coming off a significant period of time where they were terrible.

All that stuff matters and it's probably why they lost to teams like Essendon and Carlton last year, which is why they finished two wins behind us. Getting Jordan Lewis will help narrow that gap a heap, but then again, we did also just add Nathan Brown, and he played in a premiership and has played in 3 GF's and was vice captain of his previous club, so I expect there will still be a gap there for the time being and that could make a difference to which team goes further, or stays there longer in the long run.

I reckon Viney, Jones, Lewis and Tyson are all excellent players but Brayshaw is probably around Dunstan level these days and hasn't stepped up. Petraacca is promising but would be not as advanced as Acres or Billings and Oliver has shown sign so far but still a development project rather than first picked.

Putting our mids as of right now we have

Jack Steven-Lewis
Armo- Viney
Ross-Jones
Dunstan-Tyson
Brayshaw-Stevens

I would have Petracca, Oliver and Salem in the same category as Billings, Acres and Mc Kenzie as highly rated guys who should develop into excellent players. Both clubs have guys like Steven and Steele types too who could potentially improve their depth. It will be interesting to se who has the quickest development because who ever does probably gets the hop on the other.

 

[gringo2011]

If I were the Club I'd be shitty at that "Worked Gawn Over" Trademark for Hickey leaking. Exactly the sort of thing I WOULDN'T want oppo seeing with 2 months to stew.

maybe it's a psych out. Big max might be a bit fragile and Richo is making him over think it. We will probably put Holmes on him just to really * him up.

 

[saint_]

You combine the 2 games of last year, We had 70 shots on goal to 40. That's a pretty big difference, which shows we match up pretty well on Melbourne.

 

[Quixote]

maybe it's a psych out. Big max might be a bit fragile and Richo is making him over think it. We will probably put Holmes on him just to really **** him up.

Ha yep thought the same re a psyche out! Over analysing much?

 

[joop]

Cool, your opinion. I disagree entirely and also think you underestimate the cut throat nature of the business.

Pretty sure the players would be fired up for round 1 enough.
I find it highly unlikely that Gawn would be extra fired up over his name being written on our whiteboard.

 

[Quixote]

Pretty sure the players would be fired up for round 1 enough.
I find it highly unlikely that Gawn would be extra fired up over his name being written on our whiteboard.

Cool.

 

[schmuttt]

I commented in another thread that if they cant beat us with Hogan kicking 7 how the hell are they going to beat us when he gets held to 2 goals by Brown and Carlisle

We beat Hawthorn by 5 goals and Geelong at Geelong without Hogan even playing.

I reckon Viney, Jones, Lewis and Tyson are all excellent players but Brayshaw is probably around Dunstan level these days and hasn't stepped up. Petraacca is promising but would be not as advanced as Acres or Billings and Oliver has shown sign so far but still a development project rather than first picked.

Putting our mids as of right now we have

Jack Steven-Lewis
Armo- Viney
Ross-Jones
Dunstan-Tyson
Brayshaw-Stevens

I would have Petracca, Oliver and Salem in the same category as Billings, Acres and Mc Kenzie as highly rated guys who should develop into excellent players. Both clubs have guys like Steven and Steele types too who could potentially improve their depth. It will be interesting to se who has the quickest development because who ever does probably gets the hop on the other.

Dunstan is a year older than Brayshaw and gets a lot more time in the middle, considering Gus had concussion for most of last year I think you are being harsh saying he hasn't stepped up. McKenzie isn't in the same class as those other give you mentioned either.

I honestly think our best 22 is a bit more talented than yours, but I think the way you played in 2016 is more reliable than the way we played and it showed in the results between us.

 

[#gosaintas]

We beat Hawthorn by 5 goals and Geelong at Geelong without Hogan even playing.



Dunstan is a year older than Brayshaw and gets a lot more time in the middle, considering Gus had concussion for most of last year I think you are being harsh saying he hasn't stepped up. McKenzie isn't in the same class as those other give you mentioned either.

I honestly think our best 22 is a bit more talented than yours, but I think the way you played in 2016 is more reliable than the way we played and it showed in the results between us.

Your young midfield has more class than ours. We need to find some A grade talent in the midfield.

 

[gringo2011]

We beat Hawthorn by 5 goals and Geelong at Geelong without Hogan even playing.



Dunstan is a year older than Brayshaw and gets a lot more time in the middle, considering Gus had concussion for most of last year I think you are being harsh saying he hasn't stepped up. McKenzie isn't in the same class as those other give you mentioned either.

I honestly think our best 22 is a bit more talented than yours, but I think the way you played in 2016 is more reliable than the way we played and it showed in the results between us.

Probably fair but don't underestimate Dan Mac. What ever it was with Brayshaw he wasn't as good as his early career looked like it might be. Paddy Mc Cartin has big potential but hasn't got to be as good as he could. I'm going on real form. You guys have recruited very well and are on the up so are we. If Acres and Billings bolt this year we probably jump you, if your boys take off and our don't you guys should get a jump on us. I reckon it probably the middle spread of the Saints is the difference at the moment, we have a few old boys who are still playing well helps too. For us it's the Mav Weller types who aren't stars but bring a hard edge that make us a bees dick ahead though IMO.

 

[austinnn]

Gus had concussion for most of last year I think you are being harsh saying he hasn't stepped up. McKenzie isn't in the same class as those other give you mentioned either.

He had concussion for most of the year?? Did he get hit by a Mack Truck? I don't get this claim. How many times did he get concussed? What happened, I wasn't paying attention to Brayshaw. Paddy had concussion 2 or 3 times last year and still took a step up from the year before, which is only natural since that was his first year.

 

[12Chill]

He had concussion for most of the year?? Did he get hit by a Mack Truck? I don't get this claim. How many times did he get concussed? What happened, I wasn't paying attention to Brayshaw. Paddy had concussion 2 or 3 times last year and still took a step up from the year before, which is only natural since that was his first year.

Big difference from Paddy and Gus. From memory Brayshaw actually suffered lasting effects of concussion for a few weeks or so whereas McCartin was fine after each of his. Brayshaw also had 2 concussions in 3 weeks and Paddy's were more spread out over the year.

 

[schmuttt]

Probably fair but don't underestimate Dan Mac. What ever it was with Brayshaw he wasn't as good as his early career looked like it might be. Paddy Mc Cartin has big potential but hasn't got to be as good as he could. I'm going on real form. You guys have recruited very well and are on the up so are we. If Acres and Billings bolt this year we probably jump you, if your boys take off and our don't you guys should get a jump on us. I reckon it probably the middle spread of the Saints is the difference at the moment, we have a few old boys who are still playing well helps too. For us it's the Mav Weller types who aren't stars but bring a hard edge that make us a bees dick ahead though IMO.

FWIW I agreed with the rest of your post and this one, just pointed out what I disagreed with.

Both games last year were very similar, we got a hold of you in the middle in both first quarters and got a run on but after 1/4 time you guys controlled the game. Our attack at all costs gameplan fell to water when you guys upped your pressure, what pissed me off was instead of slowing the game down by flooding the contest we still tried to just attack and run through you but we gave the ball back every time and your midfield and forwards killed us on the break.

He had concussion for most of the year?? Did he get hit by a Mack Truck? I don't get this claim. How many times did he get concussed? What happened, I wasn't paying attention to Brayshaw. Paddy had concussion 2 or 3 times last year and still took a step up from the year before, which is only natural since that was his first year.

He had a knee injury in the first practice match, came back too early in round 2, played crap and got dropped. Returned to the side in round 4, got dropped for either the Saints game or after it. He was concussed first game back in the VFL then got concussed again a week later and the symptoms (Headaches, nausea) wouldn't go away so we gave him an extended amount of time off. Came back for the Gold Coast game I think then played his best game for the year when we got flogged by Geelong.

 

[Proper Gander]

I was just coming to post this, but Schmuttt beat me.

There are some serious talents on both lists but to date, in the last few games we have been pretty much totally out-coached by Richo. Obviously I'm hoping that might change at some point, but to my mind based on the history it should have Saints starting as firm favourites. I'm clearly hoping to buck the trend, but first priority is for a really great game of football.


Re some comments in this thread about how the popular media crap on about the Dee's young players but ignore the Saints young players - yes, this may happen but I think it is driven by the clubs surely? I mean there have been a shitload of the usual offseason stories where player X talks about training, and pumps up player Y.

What I'm saying is that Melbourne PR people appear to have decided to display as much as possible. Saints training etc has been less widely reported. But my guess is that Saints media guys have made a particular choice not to participate in the off season, full focus glare. So being bothered about how much another team is exposed as opposed to yours seems silly to me.

 

[Nutsngum]

Genuine question to the Melbourne guys posting in here. With Carlisle/Brown now setup to take Hogan on are you worried about the scoring opportunities now? Previously he has been a major factor in games versus us as we never really had a defender to go with him at all and he opened us up repeatedly.

Of course there is no guarantee he wont continue to do that (gun players tend to find ways) but I do feel we think restricting him is going to really hamper your scoring ability.

 

[gringo2011]

I was just coming to post this, but Schmuttt beat me.

There are some serious talents on both lists but to date, in the last few games we have been pretty much totally out-coached by Richo. Obviously I'm hoping that might change at some point, but to my mind based on the history it should have Saints starting as firm favourites. I'm clearly hoping to buck the trend, but first priority is for a really great game of football.


Re some comments in this thread about how the popular media crap on about the Dee's young players but ignore the Saints young players - yes, this may happen but I think it is driven by the clubs surely? I mean there have been a shitload of the usual offseason stories where player X talks about training, and pumps up player Y.

What I'm saying is that Melbourne PR people appear to have decided to display as much as possible. Saints training etc has been less widely reported. But my guess is that Saints media guys have made a particular choice not to participate in the off season, full focus glare. So being bothered about how much another team is exposed as opposed to yours seems silly to me.

It reminds me of the Geelong versus Saints circa 2001 when we had a huge haul of talented kids in. I'm hoping we turn the tables this time and we are the low profile Cats and form a dynasty but either way good to see the Dees back up with us. Saints and Dees fans know the pain of long waits and false dawns- brothers in pain.

 

[schmuttt]

Genuine question to the Melbourne guys posting in here. With Carlisle/Brown now setup to take Hogan on are you worried about the scoring opportunities now? Previously he has been a major factor in games versus us as we never really had a defender to go with him at all and he opened us up repeatedly.

Of course there is no guarantee he wont continue to do that (gun players tend to find ways) but I do feel we think restricting him is going to really hamper your scoring ability.

Oh ideally I'd like him to kick a bag but since he came into the side in 2015 we haven't needed him to have a big game to score a lot of goals.

Here's a list of games since round 1 2015 where we kicked 100+ and Hogans performance:

2015
Round 1 - 115 points (Hogan 2.0)
Round 8 - 103 points (Hogan 3.0)
Round 12 - 113 points (Hogan DNP)
Round 23 - 103 points (Hogan 3.2)

2016
Round 3 - 131 points (Hogan 3.2)
Round 4 - 103 points (Hogan 2.2)
Round 5 - 129 points (Hogan 0.2)
Round 7 - 160 points (Hogan 1.3)
Round 9 - 131 points (Hogan 5.1)
Round 12 - 104 points (Hogan 3.0)
Round 20 - 110 points (Hogan DNP)

As you can see, he averaged exactly 2 goals a game when we scored 100+ points so we don't rely on him to carry our forwardline. Our problem against you guys is more tactical related than personnel related imo, I'm glad we have you round 1 because we've had the whole preseason to figure out a way to beat the Saints press.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Our problem against you guys is more tactical related than personnel related imo, I'm glad we have you round 1 because we've had the whole preseason to figure out a way to beat the Saints press.

Well hopefully, we've had a whole pre-season changing our game plan

 

[Nutsngum]

Well hopefully, we've had a whole pre-season changing our game plan

Actually I think we have a bit lol.

 

[CursingFijian]

maybe it's a psych out. Big max might be a bit fragile and Richo is making him over think it. We will probably put Holmes on him just to really **** him up.

I might have to go and get a coffee off big Maxxy and just nonchalantly ask him how he's holding up after Hickey tore him a new one last year.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[gringo2011]

Actually I think we have a bit lol.

I think it's interesting that the Saints and Dogs were both playing a similar quick running game where it's almost whip lash footy. It stops teams like Freo setting their lock downs. It also challenges teams like the Hawks where they move slowly and set tempo. It's interesting to note both teams played smaller KPs at times and relied on help getting back from their running players. Both have added height so i don't know if it's to stop having to tax the players or they were just necessary adjustments due to personnel.

Anyway Collingwood thought it was so clever they sacked anyone over 6 foot in their backline.

 

[Persevering Saint]

 

[sunny3193]

Okay: I'll be the one to ask.

Who, what and why?

 

[Mighty_sainter]

We beat Hawthorn by 5 goals and Geelong at Geelong without Hogan even playing.



Dunstan is a year older than Brayshaw and gets a lot more time in the middle, considering Gus had concussion for most of last year I think you are being harsh saying he hasn't stepped up. McKenzie isn't in the same class as those other give you mentioned either.

I honestly think our best 22 is a bit more talented than yours, but I think the way you played in 2016 is more reliable than the way we played and it showed in the results between us.

You b

We beat Hawthorn by 5 goals and Geelong at Geelong without Hogan even playing.



Dunstan is a year older than Brayshaw and gets a lot more time in the middle, considering Gus had concussion for most of last year I think you are being harsh saying he hasn't stepped up. McKenzie isn't in the same class as those other give you mentioned either.

I honestly think our best 22 is a bit more talented than yours, but I think the way you played in 2016 is more reliable than the way we played and it showed in the results between us.

our ball movement and speed absolutely kills you. You've got too many of the same blokes without line breaking speed. Yeah talented but not sure your balance is as good as ours yet

 

[Persevering Saint]

Okay: I'll be the one to ask.

Who, what and why?

Saint beating demon. In a war. In heaven. I read the title of thread.