For a club like POrt they would rather be a senior club in another league that a development club. They don’t even have Juniors.
Second tier football
- Thread starter fargothegreat
- Start date
- Tagged users None
That maybe so. As long as they choose their own path forward with their own identity then I'll be happy to see them be Port Melbourne Football Club forever more. I just want their destiny not decided by others like what happened at Fitzroy or Prahran or Preston.
Also hate to see them just be like a Box Hill or Springvale that no longer have their old identity.That sucks.
melbournemartin
Brownlow Medallist
Not meaning to be disrespectful to any Port/Werribee/Willy etc fans, but what would be the big issue with placing you at the top of the VAFA?
I agree it's a step down from the VFA you grew up with, but surely it would be a step up in the "quality" of football compared with the basket case the VFL is now? Obviously I don't mean the quality from a purely on field point of view, but in terms of having a league that people still enjoy and still has a rich history not meddled with so strongly by the AFL. Much fairer competition compared with playing against AFL reserves.
Depends if there’s a need for a development league past U18s. It only wound up in 2017 so it’s not a huge change.
You hear comments like those from Buckenara quite often. There’s not enough spots in the VFL. Players head to the WAFL or SANFL instead.
It’s reserves, if players linger there for a year or two without establishing themselves in the seniors they’ll head back to local footy anyway.
Actually Box Hill Hawks (aka Hawthorn) do a decent job of recognising Box Hill’s history.
AFL Vic need to recognise what these clubs have done for footy and give them a hand (short term funding) to decide their future.
Interesting times ahead.
VAFA is amateur and relies on the old boy private school network. It is mainly eastern and southern suburb based. Port would not be able ato attract any players if they can’t pay them. VAFA is not as strong as the EFL, for example.
Plus you can’t drink at VAFA matches.
They might, but Box Hill supporters are apparently all gone so in reality the community of Box Hill Mustangs has gone. It is just a Hawks reserve team with Hawks nice enough to put Box Hill as the name but it is no longer truly the club for Box Hill supporters. I'd rather see Box Hill be the Mustangs in another league than lose their real identity. It is probably already too late like it was for Springvale Scorpions.
Absolutely right.
The reality moving forward is that lists will be culled right back along with the playing cap and football department cap, it makes sense, the AFL industry became far too bloated and the money just isn't there for that type of bloated structure.
I would remove the TAC Cup and raise the draft age, leaving the State games for the under 19'd to test themselves against one another.
Each state needs a strong league like the SANFL and WAFL. Players looking to be drafted will either play league or reserves in each state or for their school, league footy is best though.
With reduced lists the AFL will need to bring in a mid season draft and potentially a loan scheme like in the EFL to cover injuries. This is why strong state leagues are so important as this will be the source for drafts and loans
WTF? Ok that is no place for Port Melbourne Football Club to exist.
Last edited:
melbournemartin
Brownlow Medallist
Fair. So maybe move to the EFL? I am aware that Port Melbourne isn't exactly "Eastern" but nor was Brisbane when it joined the "VFL".
Eastern seaboard second-tier comp on radar, concerns for NEAFL
The northern clubs' reserves sides could join the VFL under an option raised by the AFL
www.afl.com.au
Sounds like NEAFL will be gone, eith QLD and NSW clubs joining 2nd tier competition in Victoria in some fashion.
No chance of national reserves competition, as most have suspected, ad too expensive.
Many here keep asking or wanting an AFL reserves comp, yet this thread is full of how bad the VFL is which in reality is pretty much an AFL reserves comp. If something is so poor why would you want it nationally?
It’s bizarre. Even if money and logistics wasn’t an issue, an AFL reserves league makes no sense. It wouldn’t actually serve the purpose of reserves footy. I don’t think some people think it through.
- Thread starter
- #239
With talk of an 'Eastern AFL' second tier league, here's what I'd do:
- Have an 18 team competition, with a fixture that runs alongside the AFL, so reserves can travel to games together and potentially play curtain raisers.
- Include all AFL teams reserves. Victorian teams will either join with their own reserves, or with current VFL affiliates (I know Hawthorn, at least are keen to stick with Box Hill, and I'm not sure Melbourne or St. Kilda could afford their own team).
- Tasmania to join the league in place of their planned entry into the VFL in 2021.
- The last three spots to go to the strongest VFL standalone clubs in Port Melbourne, Williamstown and Werribee. Weaker clubs Coburg and Frankston, as well as any other current VFL clubs left unaffiliated (such as Northern Blues) would move to other local leagues.
Teams would be:
Brisbane
Box Hill Hawks (or Hawthorn)
Carlton
Casey Demons (or Melbourne)
Collingwood
Essendon
Geelong
Gold Coast
GWS
North Melbourne
Port Melbourne
Richmond
Sandringham (or St. Kilda)
Sydney
Tasmania
Werribee
Western Bulldogs
Williamstown
- Have an 18 team competition, with a fixture that runs alongside the AFL, so reserves can travel to games together and potentially play curtain raisers.
- Include all AFL teams reserves. Victorian teams will either join with their own reserves, or with current VFL affiliates (I know Hawthorn, at least are keen to stick with Box Hill, and I'm not sure Melbourne or St. Kilda could afford their own team).
- Tasmania to join the league in place of their planned entry into the VFL in 2021.
- The last three spots to go to the strongest VFL standalone clubs in Port Melbourne, Williamstown and Werribee. Weaker clubs Coburg and Frankston, as well as any other current VFL clubs left unaffiliated (such as Northern Blues) would move to other local leagues.
Teams would be:
Brisbane
Box Hill Hawks (or Hawthorn)
Carlton
Casey Demons (or Melbourne)
Collingwood
Essendon
Geelong
Gold Coast
GWS
North Melbourne
Port Melbourne
Richmond
Sandringham (or St. Kilda)
Sydney
Tasmania
Werribee
Western Bulldogs
Williamstown
Long term we should be looking towards a AFL reserves league that mirrors the fixture of the AFL teams.
This might be further away now after COVID-19 though...
This might be further away now after COVID-19 though...
Could not agree more mate, and even as you say if it was financially possible it still would be third tier footy at best. Colts are colts and no matter how many colts are on an AFL list they are still colts and would Get well beaten by decent men’s teams.
There is no need for AFL reserves, it serves no purpose at all, doesn’t help out AFL clubs at all only financially burdens them.
Because it's not the same proposition? How can you say it serves no purpose I can see a heap of reasons for.
A mirrored AFL reserves would be the best development league possible, it gives clubs entire control over their players and systems, it exposes all players to the same pool as the AFL seniors, thus it's the most like for like transition. It gets teams and players familiar with the AFL requirements of travel, it's the easiest up and down promotion and dropping to the reserves with the fixtures matching the senior teams and you don't have to deal with one team having a bye, etc. It's also a lot more likely to be watched and attended by the public, because it could act as curtain raisers and even appeal to the broadcasters as another product and revenue stream.
It also doesn't displace state leagues, the VFL/WAFL/SANFL etc can still run with respective state clubs, they also don't have to compete against AFL based teams either.
Finally, everyone looks for equalization measures, having a development reserves competition consistent with all teams is beneficial in that regard in that the standard of competition is consistent.
It has challenges for sure, mainly financial and logistical, but it also has a huge host of benefits if done right.
What would that achieve? What benefit would it be? What Would it provide your club that you currently don’t have? Richmond are already playing in an AFL reserves league Aren’t they? There is nothing other than larger costs associated with an AFL reserves league.
No they aren't. And reserves is about 18 clubs.
See post #242 above.
Isnt your post a good summary of what has been avoided by the footy in Victoria from the 80s when South went to Sydney.
Victorian Football League - Wikipedia
Not sure why you point to Oakley/Jackson or is it just convenient.
RunningBounce
Premiership Player
- Jun 12, 2013
- 4,484
- 10,142
- AFL Club
- Richmond
I would have thought that taking the northern states reserves teams out of local second tier comps does more for footy outside Vic than in it.
I grew up in regional NSW. It was pretty much 33:33:33 Aussie rules to league to union when I was started juniors, and rabidly became 30:50:20 when the Canberra Raiders joined the NRL. It wasn't Aussie Rules heartland, but there was a committed core.
Some point around 2000, the ACTAFL teams all joined the NEAFL, and were flogged relentlessly by the Swans reserves for years. Then, most Canberra clubs left the NEAFL and Canberra put forward a rep team, so ACTAFL teams lost their best players, who were still being flogged by the Swans reserves. The whole exercise probably set back Aussie Rules in Canberra and regional NSW ten years.
I hear that senior suburban teams in Sydney have experienced the same. I don't know how it's played out in Brisbane.
The NEAFL was not good for the "second tier" in NSW, and it wasn't good for the Swans or GWS reserves. (I accept that "second tier" in regional NSW would struggle to be competitive in suburban Melb, Adelaide or Perth.)
I have no idea how VFL teams are going to pay for the travel to play the northern states reserves teams. I'm not sure they'd see any benefit.
So I don't see how this benefits the Vics or doesn't benefit the northern states.
chiwigi
I’ll make tears from your Wines.
Well, your pointless differentiation there for a start.
SANFL was fine, despite the protest of the Crows and Port ressies. - no it wasn't. The SANFL has been a hot mess for nearly 20 years now, the junior progression is awful and the clubs rely on the AFL teams to provide for them through the corrupt SMA (and before that, the unfair licenses for which the clubs still had to pay millions for).
Port Power took over their Port Adelaide Magpies team. the only problem was there was a Catch. The had to give up their recruiting zones to Woodville/west torrens eagles in the SANFL. - Port Adelaide rejoined with Port Adelaide from a pointlessly (and spitefully) enforced separation. This was a return to status quo and a situation that shuld never have existed, not a takeover.
WWT didn't get all the zones, they were carved up amongst other clubs.
Woodville-West Torrens had the best junior development in the SANFL. Thanks in partially merging with each other at the end of 1990. So that meant they had the zones of 2 clubs. Now they have Port Adelaides juniors and recruiting zones too. This is where people say Port lost their Identity when they lost their recruiting zones and got taken over by port Power. In a way its true because of the 21 magpies that Play in the SANFL, 17 are Power listed players. - again you are getting the spite of the SANFL who cut off their own nose to spite their Port face all the time, with tactics. Also WWT didn't get their zones, they were shared out. This is why the stipulation was put into place, the other clubs couldn't wait to swoop on the zones Port had developed for nearly 150years.
Port didn't lose their identity, we are in the AFL ffs. No other club outside Victoria has even come close, that IS our identity!
For the record both Crows and Power pay $400,000 a year each to field their SANFL teams. So thats $50,000 to each of the 8 SANFL clubs. - Port do not pay anything, instead they don't receive the money they are entitled to as founder members of the league.
All the SANFL clubs survive on ticket sales and Pokies. I remember Glenelg was in trouble financially a few years back. They were 2 million in debt. they borrowed 2 million to invest pokies at their club. those pokies are keeping them alive. They did win the SANFL flag last year. - nope, they survive on the money they bleed from Port and the Crows. The Crows barely make a profit because of this and it is the main reason Port rarely make a profit.
They also have the land at footy park to sell, that they cut Port out of when they stole the zones, to right the wrong of trying to split the club in the first place. The SANFL are a scummy corrupt organisation.
I can’t talk for the VFL but in the WAFL the AFL reserves teams are generally cannon fodder for the other teams. Not always but most the time.
If the broadcaster wants to now broadcast third tier footy then good for them.
I just think it’s a nostalgic idea more than anything mate. I hear your points but I don’t agree.
I agree with your sentiments but isnt the 2nd tier about transition from U18s, kids in Vic being told NAB Cup is elite/they dont get drafted & no pathway so they fall on the scrap heap - dont subscribe to the idea kids are that precious personally.
AFL reserves is a cool concept, but really I can't see too much benefit to it. I could only see it happening if WAFL/SANFL/NEAFL all collapse in quality forcing AFL affiliates to shift to the VFL (to which that won't happen as 10 AFL affiliates will always be decent standard). And while the NEAFL might go down that route soon, can anyone really seeing that happening to the SANFL or WAFL?
It's a pretty high cost to start transporting two teams worth of players every time a club has an away game, and then you have to start paying VFL-only players more to compensate for needing to travel to play footy, when they might've just been training twice a week after work and playing on a weekend. And really, most are only interested in their own team's reserves and a stand alone if they've got one, I'm not more likely to watch Richmond reserves play West Coast reserves than Williamstown for example. So it won't make any more money at any level while costing an absolute bomb.
It's a pretty high cost to start transporting two teams worth of players every time a club has an away game, and then you have to start paying VFL-only players more to compensate for needing to travel to play footy, when they might've just been training twice a week after work and playing on a weekend. And really, most are only interested in their own team's reserves and a stand alone if they've got one, I'm not more likely to watch Richmond reserves play West Coast reserves than Williamstown for example. So it won't make any more money at any level while costing an absolute bomb.
