Section 18C and D - Freedom of speech is doing as well as can be expected.

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As good a coverage of the issue as you will find anywhere.

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Welcome back to the land of Section 18C (and more importantly, Section 18D)
Every debate around freedom of speech and the Racial Discrimination Act specifically obsesses over part 18C of the Act.

Let’s get the facts straight.

Section 18C states that a person can’t do something that is “reasonably likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or group of people” and do it on the basis of another person’s “race, colour, national or ethnic origin”.

When read in isolation the law is expansive – if anyone could invoke the laws purely on the basis of being insulted, it would constrict much of the debate around race relations in the media, and swiftly lead to most of the right-wing media ending up in court cases.

Yet despite Cory Bernardi’s insistence that it’s destroying free speech, very few people have been found to have breached the law. People continue to spit out racist, vile commentary and cartoons every other day without heading to court.

So why is that?

Because unsurprisingly, right below section 18C is section 18D – which provides a very wide defence precisely to ensure that these laws don’t inhibit free speech.

Section 18D states that:

Section 18C does not render unlawful anything said or done reasonably and in good faith:

a. in the performance, exhibition or distribution of an artistic work; or

b. in the course of any statement, publication, discussion or debate made or held for any genuine academic, artistic or scientific purpose or any other genuine purpose in the public interest; or

c. in making or publishing:

i) a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest; or

ii) a fair comment on any event or matter of public interest if the comment is an expression of a genuine belief held by the person making the comment.

If you’re bored to tears by legislation, here’s a brief summary: if you’re doing anything for artistic, academic or scientific purposes, you’re exempt from these laws. And according to 18D(c) you can say whatever you want in the media as long as it’s based on facts and is a genuinely held belief. The judge said this even extends to protecting opinions that most people would consider abhorrent. That’s very broad. The rationale? You can comment on anything you want, but you’ve got to provide the facts that led you to that decision so the audience can judge the comment themselves. It doesn’t stop anyone from weighing in on controversial issues – it stops people from offending and humiliating others with false allegations.

The notorious “Bolt case”
Which brings us to the most public case regarding 18C. Mention 18C and the next words will either be Andrew or Bolt. It’s a perfect example of how blatantly wrong the public has interpreted the law and its implications.

In September 2010, nine people sued Bolt and the Herald Sun over two of Bolt’s blog posts. In these posts, titled “It’s so hip to be black” and “White fellas in the black” he lashed out at prominent Aboriginal people such as Professor Larissa Behrendt, Bindi Cole, Geoff Clark and Leeanne Enoch by suggesting that they falsely “chose” to be Aboriginal to advance their careers and claim “special help” they aren’t entitled to. For example, he states that Larissa Behrendt ‘chose to be Aboriginal’ and now ‘demands law to give… [her] more rights as a white Aborigine than… [her] own white dad’ while Danie Mellor is a ‘white and cosseted’ man awarded an Aboriginal art prize even though the art ‘shows no real Aboriginal techniques or traditions’.

Classy stuff.

It’s pretty clear that this superficial, stereotypical assessment of Aboriginal heritage would insult a reasonable fair-skinned Aboriginal person. Therefore, it breached section 18C.

But this alone isn’t enough to make Bolt’s comments unlawful. Bolt also had to fail Section 18D which provides a defence of “fair comment” – you can say whatever you want (no matter how racist) as long as it’s based on facts.

This is where Bolt failed – miserably.

His columns were a mess of factual inaccuracies – some of them bordering on the bizarre.

...


A Bunch Of Hypocrites
“Sometimes, in politics and life, there are things so important that they need to be defended under any circumstances. For lovers of freedom and jousters in the battle of ideas, one of those principles is freedom of speech.”

Fair point Cory, you greatly value your freedom of speech. So it makes sense that you would be up in arms at every attack on free speech, fuming at the very thought that people aren’t able to speak openly. Funny that, because I don’t remember seeing Cory Bernardi or Malcolm Roberts protesting in the streets when the Border Force Act made it possible for a doctor, welfare worker or an “entrusted person” to be imprisoned for 2 years if they speak out about abuses in detention – a blatant restriction of freedom of speech.

I don’t remember them appearing on national TV fuming about prosecuting people for verbally advocating terrorism, another clear violation of what they refer to as our “freedom of speech”.

It’s blatant hypocrisy.
 
I don’t remember them appearing on national TV fuming about prosecuting people for verbally advocating terrorism, another clear violation of what they refer to as our “freedom of speech”.

It’s blatant hypocrisy.

Even in America - the great bastion of freedom of speech - there are still laws against defamation and incitement of violence. You can't walk into a movie theater and yell "fire" for example. Regarding 18C, defamation laws are all we need. 18C is a disgrace.

Freedom of speech, revolves more around the stating of opinions. You should be allowed to say whatever you like, even if it's racist, bigoted or ignorant. If someone is offended or insulted then bad luck. What you have failed to mention in your post is that the process is the punishment. Someone might be found not guilty but not before months and months of negotiations, being dragged before the courts etc.

Take the students in Qld. One got kicked out of an Indigenous only computer lab and wrote on Facebook, "QUT.... stopping segregation with segregation." he called out Apartheid when he saw it and he came out against racism.

For that, he broke the law. Can you believe it? He may be found not guilty, but at what cost to potential future employment, and to his reputation?

It is a disgusting law, that has no place in a free-thinking liberal democracy. 18C is an open door for cynical cash grabs on very trivial grounds. I can't believe anyone would support it.
 
Even in America - the great bastion of freedom of speech - there are still laws against defamation and incitement of violence. You can't walk into a movie theater and yell "fire" for example. Regarding 18C, defamation laws are all we need. 18C is a disgrace.

Freedom of speech, revolves more around the stating of opinions. You should be allowed to say whatever you like, even if it's racist, bigoted or ignorant. If someone is offended or insulted then bad luck. What you have failed to mention in your post is that the process is the punishment. Someone might be found not guilty but not before months and months of negotiations, being dragged before the courts etc.

Take the students in Qld. One got kicked out of an Indigenous only computer lab and wrote on Facebook, "QUT.... stopping segregation with segregation." he called out Apartheid when he saw it and he came out against racism.

For that, he broke the law. Can you believe it? He may be found not guilty, but at what cost to potential future employment, and to his reputation?1

It is a disgusting law, that has no place in a free-thinking liberal democracy. 18C is an open door for cynical cash grabs on very trivial grounds. I can't believe anyone would support it.
Correct the big problem with 18c is that if a person feels offended then they are vilified, whereas under defamation the court has tests to balance what is vilification, far too many people offended by anything these days.

18d is not strong enough to protect free speach whilst it might protect the odd comedian it does not protect fair comment.
 

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Correct the big problem with 18c is that if a person feels offended then they are vilified, whereas under defamation the court has tests to balance what is vilification, far too many people offended by anything these days.

.

Wrong, it has to be "reasonably likely" to offend, which is an objective test, not a subjective one.

18d is not strong enough to protect free speach whilst it might protect the odd comedian it does not protect fair comment.

Wrong, protecting "fair comment on a matter of public interest" is precisely what it does.
 
I'm not certain the vast majority of people can afford to sue for defamation, you just can't go around calling people out on race, surely after the Second World War we've worked that out.
Turdbull DD election has worked out well :eek:
 
If 18D supposedly nullifies 18C then thats just another reason to ditch it. It can serve no purpose other than to be abused.

Bolt could have been found guilty under defamation.
 
The principles to be used in deciding what is or is not "fair comment on a matter of public interest" have been laid down in a very long line of cases on defamation law.
And completely ignored in the bolt case. In a matter of publc interest fair comment if it is a view held by the author, can be unreasonable, condensending, not in good faith etc. Under 18d that is not the case as Justice Bromberg states

Even if I had been satisfied that the section 18C conduct was capable of being fair comment, I would not have been satisfied that it was said or done by Mr Bolt reasonably and in good faith
.......
"the derisive tone, the provocative and inflammatory language and the inclusion of gratuitous asides" means that you have no defence for fair comment unless you are horribly polite about it which is ridiculous.This is not the fair comment of defamation law.

This often overlooked by left leaning commentaries, yes bolt was sloppy with his facts but not be able to use inflammatory language in an opinion piece on a matter of public interest is absurd.
 
If 18D supposedly nullifies 18C then thats just another reason to ditch it. It can serve no purpose other than to be abused.

Bolt could have been found guilty under defamation.

It doesn't nullify 18C.

It provides defences.


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Take the students in Qld. One got kicked out of an Indigenous only computer lab and wrote on Facebook, "QUT.... stopping segregation with segregation." he called out Apartheid when he saw it and he came out against racism.
QUT wasn't trying to stop segregation. So there's one factual inaccuracy.

Apartheid? No. Not even close. That's utter hyperbole.

The guy was being a complete whiney dill. But his defence was successful.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Wrong, it has to be "reasonably likely" to offend, which is an objective test, not a subjective one.
Spliting hairs the bar is extremely low in an objective test for 18c its not like a reasonable person would think bolts comments for instance are based on racial hatred. The test as Bromberg see it that do not promote

"objective tolerance for and acceptance of racial and ethnic diversity"

That basically captured any comment critical of race etc which is again absurd.
 

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Even if I had been satisfied that the section 18C conduct was capable of being fair comment, I would not have been satisfied that it was said or done by Mr Bolt reasonably and in good faith
.......
"the derisive tone, the provocative and inflammatory language and the inclusion of gratuitous asides" means that you have no defence for fair comment unless you are horribly polite about it which is ridiculous.This is not the fair comment of defamation law.

This often overlooked by left leaning commentaries, yes bolt was sloppy with his facts but not be able to use inflammatory language in an opinion piece on a matter of public interest is absurd.
Bolt's blog posts were designed to humiliate and abuse. They fit 18C.

He failed 18D because he MADE STUFF UP and he was not sincere - evidenced by his shitty language and gratuitous insults.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Bolt's blog posts were designed to humiliate and abuse. They fit 18C.

He failed 18D because he MADE STUFF UP and he was not sincere - evidenced by his shitty language and gratuitous insults.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
He would not have defence under 18d even if his facts were correct.
 
And completely ignored in the bolt case. In a matter of publc interest fair comment if it is a view held by the author, can be unreasonable, condensending, not in good faith etc. Under 18d that is not the case as Justice Bromberg states

Even if I had been satisfied that the section 18C conduct was capable of being fair comment, I would not have been satisfied that it was said or done by Mr Bolt reasonably and in good faith
.......
"the derisive tone, the provocative and inflammatory language and the inclusion of gratuitous asides" means that you have no defence for fair comment unless you are horribly polite about it which is ridiculous.This is not the fair comment of defamation law.

This often overlooked by left leaning commentaries, yes bolt was sloppy with his facts but not be able to use inflammatory language in an opinion piece on a matter of public interest is absurd.

The 18D defence is precisely the same as the defamation defence, and was so applied by the judge.
It simply couldn't help Bolt because his comments were based on lies, were malicious, and were not believed by Bolt. All 3 elements would likewise have defeated the use of the defence in a defamation action.
 
QUT wasn't trying to stop segregation. So there's one factual inaccuracy.

Apartheid? No. Not even close. That's utter hyperbole.

The guy was being a complete whiney dill. But his defence was successful.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

It is aparthied. Apartheid is racial segregation. There was a computer lab that was only allowed to be used by those who were Aboriginal. That's apartheid.

The student wrote: “Just got kicked out of the unsigned indigenous computer room. QUT stopping segregation with segregation?”

His post went up after Cindy Prior, (an aboriginal employee of the Uni), told the student to leave. He left peacefully.

She later, began legal action against him, and the other students because she said the Facebook comments caused her to have "significant stress disorder and prevented her returning to work"

It's a God damn joke, and you know it. The case failed and the student got off, but so what? The penalty is in the process. Anyone can claim offence at some tiny irrelevant comment and begin legal proceedings, knowing it will probably fail, but the very fact that they are insitigating it, is the "penalty" for the evil person who said the naughty offensive world that may have hurt someone's feelings.

You can't defend this stupid law. No one can. It's wrong.
 
It is aparthied.
So who is being prosecuted for marrying someone of a different skin colour?

What jobs are being reserved for white people?

What facilities are being reserved for white people?


And I still haven't worked out where QUT was "stopping segregation". Could you tell me?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
So who is being prosecuted for marrying someone of a different skin colour?

What jobs are being reserved for white people?

What facilities are being reserved for white people?


And I still haven't worked out where QUT was "stopping segregation". Could you tell me?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

According to the dictionary: Apartheid is any system or practice that separates people according to color, ethnicity, caste, etc.

It is a form of apartheid. Whites were banned from a computer lab that was for blacks only. The stopping segregation line was what the student wrote on Facebook. I didn't write it. For whatever reason the Aboriginal employee decided that her feelings were hurt and tried to sue the student for $250,000?

Why are you defending that?????????? What is it with leftists and the hatred of free speech?
 

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