Section 18C and D - Freedom of speech is doing as well as can be expected.

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Chief said:
Some people think....."2) It is OK to deny people access to employment and the economy "

FTR I think
"given it IS offensive and insulting to deny people access to employment and the economy"

I think you have laid the worst consistency trap I have seen in a long while.
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nope
 

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Power Raid said:
the racial discrimination act is broader than race and includes nation of origin and immigration status
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None of which is relevant to your point about the TPPA.
So, link in the RDA? And then evidence to support your claim?
I've asked you for evidence to support your claim about 6 times now. Why don't you have any evidence to support your claim???
Power Raid said:
The Racial Discrimination Act 1975 (Cth) (the RDA) makes it against the law to treat you unfairly because of your race, colour, descent, national or ethnic origin or immigrant status.


can you redo the exercise with the filter relevant for the racial discrimination act? My punt is you will have a different outcome.
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Checked again, absolutely no evidence of it in my posting history.
Can you link me to one?

Power Raid said:
A US website provides guidance on "circumstance"


Some examples of potentially unlawful immigration or citizenship status discrimination include:

  • You didn't get hired because the employer hires only U.S. citizens to do certain jobs.
  • You are a temporary resident with work authorization, but a company denies you employment because it doesn't want to deal with the “hassle” of filling out the appropriate paperwork.
  • Muslim, Asian and Latino employees are asked for copies of their work authorization papers, while other employees who are Caucasian or African-American are not asked to provide similar authorization papers.
  • You show your employer your driver's license and social security card, but your supervisor insists that you also show her a copy of your green card. When you point out that this is not required by law to fill out the I-9 form, you are told the company requires it.
  • You sign up with a temporary agency, and learn that a certain employer has work for someone with your skills and experience. The agency refuses to refer you to work for this employer because the employer wants to hire only U.S. citizens.

https://www.workplacefairness.org/immigration-status#1
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None of the above has anything to do with what you are claiming, in regards to the TPPA.
 
Power Raid said:
You don't think the individual discriminated against would be offended or insulted?
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How are they being discriminated against?

Here is a list of just the Visas available to come and work in Australia.

Working and skilled visas
https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/Visa-listing#Working and Skilled Visas


So, where is this discrimination happening?

Please provide some evidence.
 
CM86 said:
How are they being discriminated against?

Here is a list of just the Visas available to come and work in Australia.

Working and skilled visas
https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/Visa-listing#Working and Skilled Visas


So, where is this discrimination happening?

Please provide some evidence.
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CM, so in no way do you promote policy or directly discriminate?

I'd be surprised if you don't and admit I don't believe in open slather on freedom of movement of labour. I strongly believe in decreasing our barriers to entry over time but that requires management, international tax harmonisation and other international frameworks. I'm honest enough to say my position means I discriminate.
 
Power Raid, you completely ignored my post, that shows that there are so many options in Visas alone, to let people from other countries come and work in Australia.

I'll quote it.
CM86 said:
Here is a list of just the Visas available to come and work in Australia.

Working and skilled visas
https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/Visa-listing#Working and Skilled Visas


So, where is this discrimination happening?

Please provide some evidence.
Click to expand...

Power Raid said:
CM, so in no way do you promote policy or directly discriminate?

I'd be surprised if you don't and admit I don't believe in open slather on freedom of movement of labour. I strongly believe in decreasing our barriers to entry over time but that requires management, international tax harmonisation and other international frameworks. I'm honest enough to say my position means I discriminate.
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Well, if it's discrimination to say that I am against a serial rapist coming from London, to work in Australian childcare. Then sure, I'm discriminating... Are you saying you would support that person? Or that you think that person should be entitled to that position?

Just how far are you trying to stretch this?


I'm still waiting for your evidence that supports your premise.
I don't think you have any evidence at all, which is why you cannot provide any. I think you know you have no evidence, because you know your premise is false, and that's why you keep trying to be vague and misleading.
 
CM86 said:
Power Raid, you completely ignored my post, that shows that there are so many options in Visas alone, to let people from other countries come and work in Australia.

I'll quote it.



Well, if it's discrimination to say that I am against a serial rapist coming from London, to work in Australian childcare. Then sure, I'm discriminating... Are you saying you would support that person? Or that you think that person should be entitled to that position?

Just how far are you trying to stretch this?


I'm still waiting for your evidence that supports your premise.
I don't think you have any evidence at all, which is why you cannot provide any. I think you know you have no evidence, because you know your premise is false, and that's why you keep trying to be vague and misleading.
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I ignored it, like I ignored Maggie's previous posts on a similar bent.

The logic you are using is, "it is OK to discriminate against people based on race, nation of origin, skin colour or immigrant status; because we have special rules for them that may deliver an outcome they want"

compare you position to:

if you are white, please pass freely. if you are black, please stand in a queue and follow this special process because you are special. At the end of our special process, you may be treated equally but probably not.


It is far clearer when you use black and white versus immigrant status as some don't understand the breadth of the RDA
 
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Power Raid said:
I ignored it, like I ignored Maggie's previous posts on a similar bent.

The logic you are using is, "it is OK to discriminate against people based on race, nation of origin, skin colour or immigrant status; because we have special rules for them that may deliver an outcome they want"

compare you position to:

if you are white, please pass freely. if you are black, please stand in a queue and follow this special process because you are special. At the end of our special process, you may be treated equally but probably not.


It is far clearer when you use black and white versus immigrant status as some don't understand the breadth of the RDA
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That is completely incorrect.
It is about circumstances, not nation of origin or race.
Anyone from any race or nation of origin can come and work in Australia. But there are rules and regulations to stop workers being abused in Australia.
Such as stopping the bulk import of cheap labour. That doesn't make it a race issue, it makes it a worker's rights issue.

It shows just how many avenues to enter this country and work, there are.
They are the visas alone.

They show that there is plenty of ways to enter this country and work.

So you think, that if a man has been arrested for child sexual assault, we should still let them enter this country and work in child care?
You think it is discrimination to stop them?
That is the position you are taking.

You don't understand the RDA. And it's deliberate, because it's been explained to you by multiple posters, multiple times.
 
CM86 said:
That is completely incorrect.
It is about circumstances, not nation of origin or race.
Anyone from any race or nation of origin can come and work in Australia. But there are rules and regulations to stop workers being abused in Australia.
Such as stopping the bulk import of cheap labour. That doesn't make it a race issue, it makes it a worker's rights issue.

It shows just how many avenues to enter this country and work, there are.
They are the visas alone.

They show that there is plenty of ways to enter this country and work.

So you think, that if a man has been arrested for child sexual assault, we should still let them enter this country and work in child care?
You think it is discrimination to stop them?
That is the position you are taking.

You don't understand the RDA. And it's deliberate, because it's been explained to you by multiple posters, multiple times.
Click to expand...

Refer to the previous link about special rules regarding immigrant status.

"Circumstance" as you call it is still a breach of the RDA.


Tying it back to 18c it is offensive and insulting to discriminate but some want their cake and to eat it to! The hypocrisy
 
Power Raid said:
Refer to the previous link about special rules regarding immigrant status.

"Circumstance" as you call it is still a breach of the RDA.


Tying it back to 18c it is offensive and insulting to discriminate but some want their cake and to eat it to! The hypocrisy
Click to expand...
Except it's been shown to you that it has nothing to do with race, immigrant status, or place of origin.

The link I gave you, showed you how many ways there are for people to come to this country and work. And it's just the visas.
That isn't including the people;
-Who have now become citizens.
-Who were born here.
-Marry into the country.
-Are Australian of any race or ethnicity, from any country of origin.


There are things in place, to stop workers from being taken advantage of. That is what you are trying to link to the RDA, and call racism.
You are completely wrong.

Circumstances, such as, if someone is a convicted pedophile, we would stop that person from entering Australia and being in charge of Australian children.
Are you claiming that it is racist, to stop that person from working with children?
Are you actually saying it's a breach of the RDA that we would stop and American pedophile from coming to Australia and being put into a room alone with children?

Yes, that's exactly what you are trying to say. Which is why you are completely wrong, and you cannot provide any evidence to support your premise.
 
CM86 said:
Except it's been shown to you that it has nothing to do with race, immigrant status, or place of origin.

The link I gave you, showed you how many ways there are for people to come to this country and work. And it's just the visas.
That isn't including the people;
-Who have now become citizens.
-Who were born here.
-Marry into the country.
-Are Australian of any race or ethnicity, from any country of origin.


There are things in place, to stop workers from being taken advantage of. That is what you are trying to link to the RDA, and call racism.
You are completely wrong.

Circumstances, such as, if someone is a convicted pedophile, we would stop that person from entering Australia and being in charge of Australian children.
Are you claiming that it is racist, to stop that person from working with children?
Are you actually saying it's a breach of the RDA that we would stop and American pedophile from coming to Australia and being put into a room alone with children?

Yes, that's exactly what you are trying to say. Which is why you are completely wrong, and you cannot provide any evidence to support your premise.
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1) the RDA is not limited to your definition and includes immigrant status
2) in the case an australian pedophile was to pass immigration they would be let in. under the link provided, it would be discrimination to treat a non-australian differently
 
Power Raid said:
1) the RDA is not limited to your definition and includes immigrant status
2) in the case an australian pedophile was to pass immigration they would be let in. under the link provided, it would be discrimination to treat a non-australian differently
Click to expand...

So, we would let an Australian pedophile into Australia to work in child care, but we wouldn't let an American pedophile into Australia to work in child care?
Bullshit.

The RDA is limited to the RDA's definition. Not yours.

We do not stop anyone from working here, purely based on their race or nation of origin.
It is done due to other circumstances.

You have absolutely no point, and you know it.

Show any evidence that supports your premise? Why can't you do that?
 
CM86 said:
So, we would let an Australian pedophile into Australia to work in child care, but we wouldn't let an American pedophile into Australia to work in child care?
Bullshit.

The RDA is limited to the RDA's definition. Not yours.

We do not stop anyone from working here, purely based on their race or nation of origin.
It is done due to other circumstances.

You have absolutely no point, and you know it.

Show any evidence that supports your premise? Why can't you do that?
Click to expand...

CM

if you want to talk about pedophiles and child care, please start a new thread

We are talking about the RDA and my simple observation is some people advocate "offensive" and "insulting" in 18C. Yet strangely feel it is OK to promote policy that discriminates against people by race, nation of origin, colour and immigrant status. Yet somehow that is not offensive or insulting.

but to answer your question, a pedo no matter what his nation of origin, race, colour or immigrant status should be treated the same. Anything else IS discrimination. Please refer the link provided attesting to this.


and definition:
The Racial Discrimination Act 1975 (Cth) (the RDA) makes it against the law to treat you unfairly because of your race, colour, descent, national or ethnic origin or immigrant status. The RDA also makes racial hatred against the law.
Complaints under the Racial Discrimination Act | Australian Human ...
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/...guides/.../complaints-under-racial-discrimination-act
 
Northalives said:
What a load of old cobblers. What is it that we can't say now under the laws as they stand?
Click to expand...

given cobblers is referring to testicles, you are risking offending people under the sexual discrimination act
 
Power Raid said:
CM

if you want to talk about pedophiles and child care, please start a new thread

We are talking about the RDA and my simple observation is some people advocate "offensive" and "insulting" in 18C. Yet strangely feel it is OK to promote policy that discriminates against people by race, nation of origin, colour and immigrant status. Yet somehow that is not offensive or insulting.

but to answer your question, a pedo no matter what his nation of origin, race, colour or immigrant status should be treated the same. Anything else IS discrimination. Please refer the link provided attesting to this.


and definition:
The Racial Discrimination Act 1975 (Cth) (the RDA) makes it against the law to treat you unfairly because of your race, colour, descent, national or ethnic origin or immigrant status. The RDA also makes racial hatred against the law.
Complaints under the Racial Discrimination Act | Australian Human ...
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/...guides/.../complaints-under-racial-discrimination-act
Click to expand...
The pedophile in childcare is a direct example of the failure of your premise.

We do not stop anyone from working in this country due to race, ethnic origin, or immigrant status.
They are only stopped if they do not meet other requirements.
The reason we wouldn't let an American pedophile work with children in Australia, isn't because he is American, it's because he is a pedophile.

No person, no matter their nation of origin, race, colour or immigrant status, is refused work in Australia due to their nation of origin, race, colour or immigrant status.

Stop referring to the link I gave you that shows the visas, because it shows the opposite of what you are trying to claim it does.
It shows how much is being done to try and get people from all around the world, to work in Australia.

If you have a problem with immigration restrictions, you should talk about that. But it has nothing to do with working in Australia or unions, or the TPPA.


Can you show anywhere in Australia where a single race or ethnicity is being blocked from work, due to their race or ethnicity?

This is why you can't provide any evidence to support your premise. Because it's bullshit.
 
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