Section 18C and D - Freedom of speech is doing as well as can be expected.

[Power Raid]

Re-write your post to accord with the facts.

So you didn't bother to read the blog before commenting?

Do you care to comment on the issue raised that the human rights commission allocates resources toward offensive language in favour of offensive action such as the rape of young aboriginal kids.

Nothing quiet like bureaucracy wanting resources but it real work.

 

[FredLeDeux]

So you didn't bother to read the blog before commenting?

Do you care to comment on the issue raised that the human rights commission allocates resources toward offensive language in favour of offensive action such as the rape of young aboriginal kids.

Nothing quiet like bureaucracy wanting resources but it real work.

All that needs to be said about some self-serving dill using the either-or fallacy, and someone else repeating it, is that it is a fallacy.

It's the job of the HRC to deal with, inter alia, racial vilification by the likes of Leak.
It's someone else's job to deal with sexual abuse of children.

If it had been the HRC's job, I'm pretty sure that The Australian and its fruitloop cohorts would have used that fact in its ongoing jihad against the HRC and its head for doing its job.

And, once again, the racist cartoons by Zanetti and Leak had nothing whatsoever to do with sexual abuse of children in any case.

 

[Number37]

All that needs to be said about some self-serving dill using the either-or fallacy, and someone else repeating it, is that it is a fallacy.

It's the job of the HRC to deal with, inter alia, racial vilification by the likes of Leak.
It's someone else's job to deal with sexual abuse of children.

If it had been the HRC's job, I'm pretty sure that The Australian and its fruitloop cohorts would have used that fact in its ongoing jihad against the HRC and its head for doing its job.

And, once again, the racist cartoons by Zanetti and Leak had nothing whatsoever to do with sexual abuse of children in any case.

On their own their arguments don't make any sense, in fact they are completely stupid so to appeal to their audience morons like Bolt & co string together a whole heap of fringe issues to make one big issue.

 

[kwikfix]

If it had been the HRC's job, I'm pretty sure that The Australian and its fruitloop cohorts would have used that fact in its ongoing jihad against the HRC and its head for doing its job.

And, once again, the racist cartoons by Zanetti and Leak had nothing whatsoever to do with sexual abuse of children in any case.

On Thursday, Commissioner O'Callaghan said a controversial cartoon by Leak was an "accurate reflection" of what his officers dealt with among some Aboriginal families. "The reports I've got from the police is that they went to the father of that child, and the father of that child was not interested in caring for the child and was not interested in taking responsibility," he said on Thursday. "So we ended up for many hours looking after that child, trying to find a responsible adult."

 

[FredLeDeux]

kwikfix Thank you, I already read those comments by the notoriously truth-challenged WA Police Commissioner.
They are utterly irrelevant to the issues in my posts.

 

[Lebbo73]

kwikfix Thank you, I already read those comments by the notoriously truth-challenged WA Police Commissioner.
They are utterly irrelevant to the issues in my posts.

More like if they contradict your pov, you couldn't give a *.

 

[FredLeDeux]

More like if they contradict your pov, you couldn't give a ****.

They don't contradict my point of view, they are simply irrelevant to my posts in this thread.

I've no doubt that child neglect in remote aboriginal communities is a significant and pernicious problem - nowhere near as extensive as it is in white urban communities, of course - but still a huge problem which needs to be solved.

But "I object to Leak's racist cartoons" simply does not = "I don't care about child neglect in either aboriginal or white communities".
This suggestion by Leak and his apologists is a straightforward logical fallacy, pure and simple, and no more than a desperate attempt to divert attention from his serial racist behaviour and to defend the indefensible.

Why do so many opponents of 18C/D have so much difficulty in learning and understanding what the sections say and mean, then arguing logically from those premises?

You'd almost reckon that they form their opinions on the basis of "If Bolt's agin it, then I'm agin it", regardless of facts and logic.

 

[kwikfix]

https://audioboom.com/posts/5189306-bill-leak

 

[Power Raid]

All that needs to be said about some self-serving dill using the either-or fallacy, and someone else repeating it, is that it is a fallacy.

It's the job of the HRC to deal with, inter alia, racial vilification by the likes of Leak.
It's someone else's job to deal with sexual abuse of children.

If it had been the HRC's job, I'm pretty sure that The Australian and its fruitloop cohorts would have used that fact in its ongoing jihad against the HRC and its head for doing its job.

And, once again, the racist cartoons by Zanetti and Leak had nothing whatsoever to do with sexual abuse of children in any case.

so true but again you have missed the issue of what the author was raising being the allocation of resources.

Should government resources and societies resources be allocated to issue like someone saying "where is the white supremacist computer lab" vs helping young aboriginal kids who are subjected to cruel and barbaric sexual violence.

I would suggest it is a very fair question............and yes it would be a criminal issue

 

[Number37]

so true but again you have missed the issue of what the author was raising being the allocation of resources.

Should government resources and societies resources be allocated to issue like someone saying "where is the white supremacist computer lab" vs helping young aboriginal kids who are subjected to cruel and barbaric sexual violence.

I would suggest it is a very fair question............and yes it would be a criminal issue

If the white supremacist computer lab is targeting Aboriginals should the government just ignore it?
Does sexual violence against Aboriginal kids trump white supremacy against Aboriginals? Is it one or the other?

 

[Power Raid]

I may have missed discussion of this point earlier, but can anyone list examples of the RDA being applied unfairly or unjustly? So far all I see from critics of s 18C is complaints about the Bolt case (which I've studied and have no particular issue with), the QUT matter (which appears to have been dropped - exactly the right thing to do in my opinion), and the *threat* of Bill Leak falling foul of the legislation.

None of these examples indicate that there's a problem with s 18C -- if anything, the issues lies with vexatious litigants and stupidly long delays in getting to court -- and in fact seems to me that the laws do a reasonable job allowing people to say what they want, even if it's offensive or insulting.

In fact, you could argue that the continuing existence of pretty nasty racial abuse shows how impotent the RDA is at stopping racism. It hasn't stopped Bill Leak from drawing controversial cartoons, Andrew Bolt still says the same old crap he always says, and it certainly didn't stop people taking about Adam Goodes last year (even the explicitly racist comments).

Sent from mTalk

dropped?

please refer to settlements, in excess of $1m in legal and ruining careers

 

[Power Raid]

If the white supremacist computer lab is targeting Aboriginals should the government just ignore it?
Does sexual violence against Aboriginal kids trump white supremacy against Aboriginals? Is it one or the other?

have you read the QUT case? please read

 

[Power Raid]

The HRC has received a complaint about the cartoon.

The President has power to dismiss the complaint if satisfied that it is "trivial, vexatious, misconceived or lacking in substance", but quite clearly the President cannot properly exercise that power in this case before obtaining further information from the parties, given that the cartoon is, prima facie, a clear and blatant breach of 18C; it's patently offensive to Aboriginals, it directly targets them and nobody else, and it is repulsive, pig-ignorant bile that was designed to hurt a marginalised racial group and achieved that aim.

When the HRC has received the reply from The Australian (which it now apparently has), it will consider it, and decide whether to initiate conciliation, which it will do in the normal course of events. The HRC has not and does not initiate legal proceedings, it merely tries to resolve complaints made to it.

At that stage, you would expect that the complaint will be resolved by The Australian citing 18D. The only question will be whether the paper and cartoonist have acted reasonably and in good faith; and to find a lack of good faith requires the Commission to identify conduct that smacks of dishonesty or fraud; in other words something approaching a deliberate intent to mislead or, if it is reasonably foreseeable that a particular racial group will be humiliated or denigrated by publication, at least a culpably reckless and callous indifference in that regard. Carelessness or casual indifference won't suffice. Of course, their good faith may be called into question, given Leak's serial record of racially offensive cartooning, but he'll probably still get away with it.

PS, some of the above is quoted direct from Michael Bradley, who spells the situation out very clearly, and at greater length
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=cf4de3bc-6adc-44ac-a637-abf9c8b068de

Listen to bill here....http://www.6pr.com.au/news/leak-vindication-20161021-gs7rby.html

Let me get this straight, we have a commission to crack down on breaches of 18C that can't rely upon defenses of 18D. but what about the other way around where the someone falsely claims someone has breached the law and claims they are they have acted in a way or generated something that that is repulsive, pig-ignorant bile...........essentially a labeling them racist.

perhaps we need another commission and another law to capture this offensive behaviour.

 

[Chief]

The false dichotomy is strong in these last few pages.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FredLeDeux]

The false dichotomy is strong in these last few pages.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's become the fundamental defence du jour.

 

[Number37]

Let me get this straight, we have a commission to crack down on breaches of 18C that can't rely upon defenses of 18D. but what about the other way around where the someone falsely claims someone has breached the law and claims they are they have acted in a way or generated something that that is repulsive, pig-ignorant bile...........essentially a labeling them racist.

perhaps we need another commission and another law to capture this offensive behaviour.

Court is the only place that can crack down on 18C. Stop repeating nonsense your read from News Ltd.

 

[remember54]

dropped?

please refer to settlements, in excess of $1m in legal and ruining careers

Happy for some links to read further if you've got them

 

[kwikfix]

have you read the QUT case? please read

A formal warning was delivered to another student because he posted what was determined by the university to be an offensive joke. His family made a confidential cash settlement.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/hig...y/news-story/a86f5c3d65d1c1df5289bcd44bc354d2

Bill leak made the point that "The Australian" was picking up the tab for all the legal fees that could run into the millions but the QUT case had caused severe financial hardship to the defendants and made life hell for them.

 

[Number37]

A formal warning was delivered to another student because he posted what was determined by the university to be an offensive joke. His family made a confidential cash settlement.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/hig...y/news-story/a86f5c3d65d1c1df5289bcd44bc354d2

Bill leak made the point that "The Australian" was picking up the tab for all the legal fees that could run into the millions but the QUT case had caused severe financial hardship to the defendants and made life hell for them.

There is a lesson in that for all young kiddies...don't repeat the rubbish you read in News Ltd papers because it will do nothing but get you into trouble and you don't have a syndicated column and government arse clowns in your pocket to fight against what follows.

 

[FredLeDeux]

A formal warning was delivered to another student because he posted what was determined by the university to be an offensive joke. His family made a confidential cash settlement.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/hig...y/news-story/a86f5c3d65d1c1df5289bcd44bc354d2

Bill leak made the point that "The Australian" was picking up the tab for all the legal fees that could run into the millions but the QUT case had caused severe financial hardship to the defendants and made life hell for them.

Including the one who posted "ITT N.....s?"

 

[kwikfix]

snowflakes are going to have a ball with 18c

 

[Lebbo73]

They don't contradict my point of view, they are simply irrelevant to my posts in this thread.

I've no doubt that child neglect in remote aboriginal communities is a significant and pernicious problem - nowhere near as extensive as it is in white urban communities, of course - but still a huge problem which needs to be solved.

But "I object to Leak's racist cartoons" simply does not = "I don't care about child neglect in either aboriginal or white communities".
This suggestion by Leak and his apologists is a straightforward logical fallacy, pure and simple, and no more than a desperate attempt to divert attention from his serial racist behaviour and to defend the indefensible.

Why do so many opponents of 18C/D have so much difficulty in learning and understanding what the sections say and mean, then arguing logically from those premises?

You'd almost reckon that they form their opinions on the basis of "If Bolt's agin it, then I'm agin it", regardless of facts and logic.

There are cartoons every day pointing out the flaws of white people. What seems to be the problem when it is targeted at aborigines?

 

[kwikfix]

 

[kwikfix]

https://omny.fm/shows/george-and-paul/larry-pickering-and-the-pickering-post

 

[kwikfix]