Analysis Selection Integrity

[Soapy V]

Billy needs to get the ball in the 2s. He had problems with continuity last season. He was below VFL standard last week. Don't set him up to fail like Josh Honey and Durds last year who were selected when out of form at a lower level.

I am a fan and he had a great pre season up until first practice games and then got a minor leg injury. Since then has hardly fired a shot

I rate him but to pick him the way he is playing at the moment would be a major mistake. sadly, he is just another good young player who's development has at best "stagnated"

 

[Soapy V]

Alot of smart coaches play through the youth to give them confidence.
Unfortunately our coaches have a fixation on defense first, when sometimes the best form of defense is attack.
I know there is more to it but, releasing the players to play their natural game and enjoy the game again is a good starting point. At the moment they are clearly not enjoying it and it shows, arguing on field (for all to see) about positioning instead of just playing and enjoying the game.

This fairly and squarely lies with the coach I reckon he is crap, very similar situation when he was at Brisbane before a player walk out. I don't think he is capable of change he clearly can't see his own wrong doings, and it's further emphasized with team selection.
Haven't watch a great deal of us this year Soap I reckon we play fake, a lot like the personality of our front man.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Arr0w]

This is a huge issue, if we dont have 2-3 players of acceptable standard to come in and replace underperforming players, we are in a huge mess.

It's been a concern for a number of years, which went to a new level last off season

I wouldn’t drop all 4 but I would have kept Lord in and dropped one of Haynes, Gov or Doc, i see the issue with Lords stamina but im yet to question his intent and attack on the opposition and the ball.

I like Lord as a player, but he is behind all our starting mids, struggles resting as a forward and or lack of versatility. Some of the calls mid season, that he should play ahead of Hewett or was Newcombe like, were really strange

I remember picking my sides when i played cricket and on reflection i gave a lot more rope to people i liked or who’s quality I knew compared to players coming up through the grades, after a while people notice and it causes issues when you or they continue to not perform.

To me Doch is really struggling and so is Williams, yet we keep picking them.

I agree these 2 are also struggling, but they still offer more than a one positional player in Lord

 

[Sector 7G]

I am a fan and he had a great pre season up until first practice games and then got a minor leg injury. Since then has hardly fired a shot

I rate him but to pick him the way he is playing at the moment would be a major mistake. sadly, he is just another good young player who's development has at best "stagnated"

Pretty sure he got concussed which broke up his season as well. Really needs to get a clear run at it.

 

[Soapy V]

Pretty sure he got concussed which broke up his season as well. Really needs to get a clear run at it.

Really? Must have missed that. Might explain a lot. Thanks

 

[Broadside]

I agree these 2 are also struggling, but they still offer more than a one positional player in Lord

but that's ignoring the message to be sent to the playing group that certain standards must be met

arguably the net effect is positive even if we bring in a weaker player on paper

 

[Soapy V]

but that's ignoring the message to be sent to the playing group that certain standards must be met

arguably the net effect is positive even if we bring in a weaker player on paper

Nailed it. Nice to see how some can see the entire picture.

Very definition of Mediocrity

 

[Arr0w]

but that's ignoring the message to be sent to the playing group that certain standards must be met

arguably the net effect is positive even if we bring in a weaker player on paper

Would be great if we had better players returning to make a statement, but if we drop say Doc, keep a underperforming, less flexible Lord, the rhetoric would change to why not Mots, Gov, Haynes and the list goes on...

I'm really surprised as to the frustration the omission of one player in Lord, who has been struggling has caused

But I am aware why it's being so prominent on our board for a number of years

 

[Matty411]

I agree that we've had an issue with selection integrity for a long time and a good while in Voss' tenure.

Interesting thought experiment, how many changes would we see a week if we created a bf-fans-inspired selection vote for weekly changes?

 

[Soapy V]

I agree that we've had an issue with selection integrity for a long time and a good while in Voss' tenure.

Interesting thought experiment, how many changes would we see a week if we created a bf-fans-inspired selection vote for weekly changes?

Probably a lot less than people might think.

If the issues brought up by many were addressed from the start or even in a week it would make a major difference

If you properly read most posts, it's not about a particular player etc but more about how we develop our younger players and how many senior players seem to get a 'pass" on so many things. The issue is really about standards and how they seem to be different for different players.

and in the end we continue to lose

I would say 99% on here see it and mostly agree.

 

[GenYBlue]

Alot of smart coaches play through the youth to give them confidence.
Unfortunately our coaches have a fixation on defense first, when sometimes the best form of defense is attack.

I've definitely noticed this too. It's frustrating.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

Selection this week is embarrassing. How Doch, Haynes, Gov and Motlop survived is mind boggling to me.

Bad signs for the club when selection becomes about reputation and not form.

Boyd should have some come in for doc or one of Haynes/Gov.

Carroll, McKay, Cotters & Durdin are good ins.

That’s quite a few already.

Who else would you bring in?

 

[gbatman]

Boyd should be tried as a forward.

How Fogarty can do nothing for years and now takes doing nothing to the next level is unbelievable. Good coaches delist players like this and go to list management and demand better. Which is exactly what Brad Scott did and Geelong achieve. Carlton hang on to players like this for far too long, don't make enough list changes, don't draft enough players and find themselves in this situation consistently.

How many goalless games will it take for there to be a change?

White didn't kick a goal but at least generated 3 shots on goal. Fogarty has not scored a goal all year, now 4 games straight.

You can just see how this will work. Fogarty should have been dropped for a trial of Boyd. At minimum should be the sub. Regardless of what he does, he will play next week, another of Voss' protected species. White will be named as sub this week and then dropped next week. You can just see it coming.

 

[gbatman]

Remember when we had Dow getting 40 odd possessions per week and providing run and carry and genuine leg speed and we were going well but lacked leg speed and Voss thought Ed Curnow was the best option to come into the side as sub or for injuries each week?

This is who we have coaching us and developing players.

Cooper Lord is the new Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

26

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

. Not sure who is the new Ed Curnow, probably Docherty.

I don't think Voss has developed at all as a coach and this is the biggest issue.

 

[Arr0w]

Remember when we had Dow getting 40 odd possessions per week and providing run and carry and genuine leg speed and we were going well but lacked leg speed and Voss thought Ed Curnow was the best option to come into the side as sub or for injuries each week?

This is who we have coaching us and developing players.

Cooper Lord is the new Paddy Dow. Not sure who is the new Ed Curnow, probably Docherty.

I don't think Voss has developed at all as a coach and this is the biggest issue.

I was thinking the very same thing

 

[tarczonandjane]

The thing I find frustrating is not selecting a side which is equipped to play modern football. Ok… not equipped to attempt to play modern football.

Our list is not going to have pace and footskills overnight. But I think we can pick a side which would be better equipped to play that side of game.

Guys like Carroll and Boyd should feature. And we really don’t need four defensive talls. The blokes we should be giving a game are those we think might have a future in the modern game.

The deficiencies of the list are such that we are still unlikely to be able to match it with the best sides. But it might start to get us onto the page of a style of football others are playing.

 

[Soapy V]

The thing I find frustrating is not selecting a side which is equipped to play modern football. Ok… not equipped to attempt to play modern football.

Our list is not going to have pace and footskills overnight. But I think we can pick a side which would be better equipped to play that side of game.

Guys like Carroll and Boyd should feature. And we really don’t need four defensive talls. The blokes we should be giving a game are those we think might have a future in the modern game.

The deficiencies of the list are such that we are still unlikely to be able to match it with the best sides. But it might start to get us onto the page of a style of football others are playing.

Well said

 

[JJBagger]

Boyd should be tried as a forward.

How Fogarty can do nothing for years and now takes doing nothing to the next level is unbelievable. Good coaches delist players like this and go to list management and demand better. Which is exactly what Brad Scott did and Geelong achieve. Carlton hang on to players like this for far too long, don't make enough list changes, don't draft enough players and find themselves in this situation consistently.

How many goalless games will it take for there to be a change?

White didn't kick a goal but at least generated 3 shots on goal. Fogarty has not scored a goal all year, now 4 games straight.

You can just see how this will work. Fogarty should have been dropped for a trial of Boyd. At minimum should be the sub. Regardless of what he does, he will play next week, another of Voss' protected species. White will be named as sub this week and then dropped next week. You can just see it coming.

Fog done nothing for years? What on earth are you smoking?

 

[Arr0w]

The thing I find frustrating is not selecting a side which is equipped to play modern football. Ok… not equipped to attempt to play modern football.

Our list is not going to have pace and footskills overnight. But I think we can pick a side which would be better equipped to play that side of game.

Guys like Carroll and Boyd should feature. And we really don’t need four defensive talls. The blokes we should be giving a game are those we think might have a future in the modern game.

The deficiencies of the list are such that we are still unlikely to be able to match it with the best sides. But it might start to get us onto the page of a style of football others are playing.

Draft/recruit better equiped traits and development will look entirely different, Logan Morris is a prime example

Plenty of hype regarding Caddy in his draft year, and will be a highlight reel, while Morris was hugely underrated, but has elite footy IQ

I think Moir will make it at the next level, but I would have taken Morris, which I shared at the time

 

[Gavstar]

Pretty sure he got concussed which broke up his season as well. Really needs to get a clear run at it.

I think concussions are underrated when it comes to impact on player performance. Stats around post-concussive depression are pretty startling.

 

[gbatman]

Fog done nothing for years? What on earth are you smoking?

What are you? Very poor player, what is it and Geelong's scraps. At least he's one of the better ones. You must be like Voss and have horrible standards. That's why our list turnover has been so low and why it is the way it is. Fogarty would not have lasted on the list of Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood or Hawthorn very long but he is a long term player here. There's the problem.

 

[Opium]

and Billy WIlson!!

Needs to earn it.

 

[JJBagger]

What are you? Very poor player, what is it and Geelong's scraps. At least he's one of the better ones. You must be like Voss and have horrible standards. That's why our list turnover has been so low and why it is the way it is. Fogarty would not have lasted on the list of Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood or Hawthorn very long but he is a long term player here. There's the problem.

The way he plays was a big part of why we went on that run in ‘23. Forward pressure, and was top 10 in the league for goal assists per game last year

 

[Arr0w]

Fringe/role player look average when losing or team playing poorly

Although, I prefer forwards to be more dangerous on the scoreboard while still contributing to team ethos

 

[DangerousD]

I agree these 2 are also struggling, but they still offer more than a one positional player in Lord

On output you may be right but on effort and commitment I think he has them covered, there might be better examples but to me it sets a poor standard amongst the group.

Fog, Motlop continue to play despite really poor form and really bad efforts.

Williams and Doc have regressed and imo are being picked on name only and are getting too much slack.

The trading of depth and not replacing it has been a disaster