Opinion Selection Nightmares

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Bearded Clam said:
Agree he gives his all..

but

He can gut run to his hearts content.. in the SANFL.

if he isnt being pushed out of the 22 next season by our up and coming youth, and any others we may trade or draft in this year, then our drafting, in particular, needs to be overhauled.. big time.

his poor skills can be overlooked for a 22 thats bottom 5 and in a rebuild mode.. but when it gets up to the other pointy end of the ladder and big finals games.. that s**t just doesnt cut it.

and that was glaringly obvious in that finals like game against the Pies two weeks ago at the G. He was atrocious.

our current bottom 5-6 players (as I named in that previous post) is shitful.. just deplorable. you need a far better bottom 5 if you want to be top 4 and contending for a flag..

dont believe me?.. go look at the last 10 flag winners.. pick their bottom 5-6 players and compare them to the five I’ve named above. For a start.. It’ll be hard enough just picking the bottom 5 players of those premiership teams.
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We know you hate Keays, but he's probably been in our best 3-4 players since he started playing up the ground more a month ago. His work rate as a high half forward gives us support around the ball (he's a good clearance/tackle player) and he's finding himself in dangerous positions to hit the scoreboard - kicked 8.7 in the past 5, and quite a few shots that have just fallen short of the goal line. He is right at the bottom of our issues. Its guys like McHenry, Murphy, no 2nd KPD, average HB flankers and midfield youth causing problems.
 
How ******* bad are we if there's any truth to the claim that no-one in the 2nds are banging the door down to get in, when we have plenty of players in our 22 banging the door to get out? That makes us one hell of a clownshow.

Do we just draft players to be garden ornaments? 'cause seemingly they're not even there in a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency form, because when you have Sholl, Murphy and Milera serving up s**t-sandwich performances on a tiresome basis you're in the midst of a ******* emergency.
 
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Twist_of_Lemon said:
How ******* bad are we if there's any truth to the claim that no-one in the 2nds are banging the door down to get in, when we have plenty of players in our 22 banging the door to get out? That makes us one hell of a clownshow.

Do we just draft players to be garden ornaments? 'cause seemingly they're not even there in a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency form, because when you have Sholl, Murphy and Milera serving up s*t-sandwich performances on a tiresome basis you're in the midst of a ****** emergency.
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Cook, Nank and Borlase should have all played 5 games each at least this season. Nicks has no idea and is desperately playing it safe.
 
1990crow said:
Why? Borlase hasn't shown AFL talent worthy of getting 5 games.
1 today due to lack of options but otherwise he's been nowhere near it.
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Again, he has shown quite a bit since drafted under the academy rules. The issue is as a fan thinking the Sanfl is the great developer. It just isnt. They'd get more out of training any day of the week than a game at Sanfl level. Players are simply told to play certain roles and work on areas of their game. Its not free play out there. Thats why our players dont necessarily look great at Sanfl level.
 
WaynesWorld19 said:
If you're trying to suggest any player in the SANFL side would have changed today's smorgasboard of mediocrity, you're speaking to the wrong man

It started in the midfield & finished in the midfield ......who from the SANFL could have played midfield and changed the course of the game .....no-one
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Sam Berry would have had more of an impact in the midfield today than any of Sloane, Sholl or Rachele I’ll tell you that much. Sloane is a corpse, Sholl is a rag doll and Rachele is a one-way running squib.

Berry had a shocking start to the season, and Dawson’s move to full-time mid saw him rightly dumped to the twos. But now that Rachele and Sloane are both stinking it up in their midfield minutes (not to mention the fact that Rachele can’t kick a goal to save his life as a forward), Berry must return.
 
huludicidal said:
Sam Berry would have had more of an impact in the midfield today than any of Sloane, Sholl or Rachele I’ll tell you that much. Sloane is a corpse, Sholl is a rag doll and Rachele is a one-way running squib.

Berry had a shocking start to the season, and Dawson’s move to full-time mid saw him rightly dumped to the twos. But now that Rachele and Sloane are both stinking it up in their midfield minutes (not to mention the fact that Rachele can’t kick a goal to save his life as a forward), Berry must return.
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The issue is its been the safe selection to stick with the same group of players. Winning every 2nd week and the two games against Collingwood and the win against Brisbane, St Kilda and Port has hid the shitty selection policy. It was exposed for all to see when the squad had to stand up and show what its capable of.
 
Extremely concerning thread - especially the lack of long term thinking.

Last year we gave 17 games to an out of contract and soon to be delisted James Rowe. We wasted AFL games at the end of the year to Ben Davis. We kept bringing in Crouch despite knowing exactly what he was bringing.

Are we doing the exact same thing with Murphy this year? He is out of contract at the end of the year and has played 15 games so far. If we keep playing him and delist him at seasons end - it will be maddening.
 
Do people actually think the midfield can be improved, in the short or long term, with different selections? Or does the idea that there is some sort of super-talent being unfairly held back help rationalise the fact that the midfield is mostly just terrible outside Dawson and Laird

Working on the assumption that you have 4 spots for 'specialist' on-ball non-ruck midfielders (with others filling in here and there.) You'd currently have
  1. Dawson. SO far ahead of everyone else, it'd be criminal not to play him there. Added bonus: His play in other positions has got much worse this year.
  2. Laird. Comfortably better than the rest.
  3. Other centre square first choice...
  4. Bench starter.
At one point, spots 3 and 4 would have gone to Berry and Schoenberg. Both are at the point in a career where you'd be expecting them to sit in the best 22 on merit. And yet they look worse than ever, barely AFL standard at best currently.

They've had plenty of goes at it too. Even 10 Brownlow votes in 5 matches wasn't enough to stop Nicks forcing Keays out of the midfield to make room for them.

Nobody else has come close to the above players.

Also don't mention Sloane or Crouch. Sloane doesn't play midfield anymore and Crouch has played half a game in the senior side in the last 12 months. They aren't stealing minutes from anybody.
 
AFC979810 said:
Extremely concerning thread - especially the lack of long term thinking.

Last year we gave 17 games to an out of contract and soon to be delisted James Rowe. We wasted AFL games at the end of the year to Ben Davis. We kept bringing in Crouch despite knowing exactly what he was bringing.

Are we doing the exact same thing with Murphy this year? He is out of contract at the end of the year and has played 15 games so far. If we keep playing him and delist him at seasons end - it will be maddening.
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Yeah its extremely concerning and im happy for anyone to send this into Rowe and Tredrea. Honestly, its scary. Adelaide fans have been sold on a full rebuild and just by the pure data it appears thats far from what we are getting. Frankly Nicks needs to answer this.

I will just do 2022 comparison

Players used 38

2 players played every game (22)
19 players played 15 or more
29 players played 10 or more
33 players played 5 or more

That right there laid the foundation for player improvement in 2023. But he has thrown that model completely out the window and for what? Its interesting as to where we will be next year if we dont find any decent trades. I think we are set up to tread water around this area of the table for a few years. Is it good enough? nope and its so not what we as fans were sold and why we went through the pain.
 

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Interloperer said:
Do people actually think the midfield can be improved, in the short or long term, with different selections? Or does the idea that there is some sort of super-talent being unfairly held back help rationalise the fact that the midfield is mostly just terrible outside Dawson and Laird

Working on the assumption that you have 4 spots for 'specialist' on-ball non-ruck midfielders (with others filling in here and there.) You'd currently have
  1. Dawson. SO far ahead of everyone else, it'd be criminal not to play him there. Added bonus: His play in other positions has got much worse this year.
  2. Laird. Comfortably better than the rest.
  3. Other centre square first choice...
  4. Bench starter.
At one point, spots 3 and 4 would have gone to Berry and Schoenberg. Both are at the point in a career where you'd be expecting them to sit in the best 22 on merit. And yet they look worse than ever, barely AFL standard at best currently.

They've had plenty of goes at it too. Even 10 Brownlow votes in 5 matches wasn't enough to stop Nicks forcing Keays out of the midfield to make room for them.

Nobody else has come close to the above players.

Also don't mention Sloane or Crouch. Sloane doesn't play midfield anymore and Crouch has played half a game in the senior side in the last 12 months. They aren't stealing minutes from anybody.
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The issue with our midfield is its stalled. The same players are relied upon over and over again. We need development and games to be pumped into players in the Sanfl. Will it make our midfield better? yes, because it will increase our depth and we can continue filling our side with elite talent as they progress. Using thesame players on rotation is destined to simply find ceilings and stay there.
 
Interloperer said:
Do people actually think the midfield can be improved, in the short or long term, with different selections? Or does the idea that there is some sort of super-talent being unfairly held back help rationalise the fact that the midfield is mostly just terrible outside Dawson and Laird

Working on the assumption that you have 4 spots for 'specialist' on-ball non-ruck midfielders (with others filling in here and there.) You'd currently have
  1. Dawson. SO far ahead of everyone else, it'd be criminal not to play him there. Added bonus: His play in other positions has got much worse this year.
  2. Laird. Comfortably better than the rest.
  3. Other centre square first choice...
  4. Bench starter.
At one point, spots 3 and 4 would have gone to Berry and Schoenberg. Both are at the point in a career where you'd be expecting them to sit in the best 22 on merit. And yet they look worse than ever, barely AFL standard at best currently.

They've had plenty of goes at it too. Even 10 Brownlow votes in 5 matches wasn't enough to stop Nicks forcing Keays out of the midfield to make room for them.

Nobody else has come close to the above players.

Also don't mention Sloane or Crouch. Sloane doesn't play midfield anymore and Crouch has played half a game in the senior side in the last 12 months. They aren't stealing minutes from anybody.
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Sloane doesn’t play midfield anymore? Where’s he playing and do his CBAs mean he’s actually playing full forward?
 
WaynesWorld19 said:
It's clear by the general feeling tonight, a competitive loss is not being accepted ......when a win was expected, and rightly so
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That wasn’t a competitive loss. They blew us away in the first half, we battled back in the second half but we were never going to win it, they had us covered.
 
Interloperer said:
Do people actually think the midfield can be improved, in the short or long term, with different selections? Or does the idea that there is some sort of super-talent being unfairly held back help rationalise the fact that the midfield is mostly just terrible outside Dawson and Laird

Working on the assumption that you have 4 spots for 'specialist' on-ball non-ruck midfielders (with others filling in here and there.) You'd currently have
  1. Dawson. SO far ahead of everyone else, it'd be criminal not to play him there. Added bonus: His play in other positions has got much worse this year.
  2. Laird. Comfortably better than the rest.
  3. Other centre square first choice...
  4. Bench starter.
At one point, spots 3 and 4 would have gone to Berry and Schoenberg. Both are at the point in a career where you'd be expecting them to sit in the best 22 on merit. And yet they look worse than ever, barely AFL standard at best currently.

They've had plenty of goes at it too. Even 10 Brownlow votes in 5 matches wasn't enough to stop Nicks forcing Keays out of the midfield to make room for them.

Nobody else has come close to the above players.

Also don't mention Sloane or Crouch. Sloane doesn't play midfield anymore and Crouch has played half a game in the senior side in the last 12 months. They aren't stealing minutes from anybody.
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But Sloane is playing midfield, surely you have noticed that. More to the point, it’s a philosophical issue. If there was a player who could come in and improve us, our current selection methods would ensure we won’t find out. How much midfield time did we give Lyons whilst Thommo was hobbling around totally cooked late in 2016.
 
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adelaidecrows said:
Yeah its extremely concerning and im happy for anyone to send this into Rowe and Tredrea. Honestly, its scary. Adelaide fans have been sold on a full rebuild and just by the pure data it appears thats far from what we are getting. Frankly Nicks needs to answer this.

I will just do 2022 comparison

Players used 38

2 players played every game (22)
19 players played 15 or more
29 players played 10 or more
33 players played 5 or more

That right there laid the foundation for player improvement in 2023. But he has thrown that model completely out the window and for what? Its interesting as to where we will be next year if we dont find any decent trades. I think we are set up to tread water around this area of the table for a few years. Is it good enough? nope and its so not what we as fans were sold and why we went through the pain.
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It hasn’t changed for 2+ years. Kids have only overtaken more experienced players when they were that bad that it was embarrassing watching them ie Gibbs, Rat etc. At no stage have we prioritised future performance over winning or losing by as little as possible this weekend.

Sloane will be an exception because there’s no way they’ll drop him, regardless of how much of a liability he’s become.
 
WaynesWorld19 said:
If you're trying to suggest any player in the SANFL side would have changed today's smorgasboard of mediocrity, you're speaking to the wrong man

It started in the midfield & finished in the midfield ......who from the SANFL could have played midfield and changed the course of the game .....no-one
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Eagleboy2011 said:
Need to reward good form in the 2's.
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Rewarding form in the 2's does a few things.
1. It keeps pressure on those above.
2. It provides incentive to those below.

When you ignore the 2's and lock in your top team, you remove both of those benefits.
It's a dumb approach.
 
adelaidecrows said:
The issue with our midfield is its stalled. The same players are relied upon over and over again. We need development and games to be pumped into players in the Sanfl. Will it make our midfield better? yes, because it will increase our depth and we can continue filling our side with elite talent as they progress. Using thesame players on rotation is destined to simply find ceilings and stay there.
Click to expand...
Not only, as I stated above, is the SANFL a joke of a league to try and develop our players in..

We have a coach in Mick Godden who puts matt crouch, tyler brown and Jackson Hately into nearly every single CBA..

Three blokes that should rightfully be delisted at the seasons end.. its bewildering.

Our more talented youth like dowling and bond barely get a look in.. unfortunately taylor got injured.
Nank was said to have been drafted to possibly become a big bodied mid but that hasnt occured..
Cook, who I think has all the skills to do it, isnt ever considered..

Hell.. often Godden will chuck one of the older sanfl top up players in the CB before he considers one of our young lads.

So I wouldnt go thinking we are doing anything to give our midfield stocks for the future a boost there..
 
Jcpdragonx said:
We know you hate Keays, but he's probably been in our best 3-4 players since he started playing up the ground more a month ago. His work rate as a high half forward gives us support around the ball (he's a good clearance/tackle player) and he's finding himself in dangerous positions to hit the scoreboard - kicked 8.7 in the past 5, and quite a few shots that have just fallen short of the goal line. He is right at the bottom of our issues. Its guys like McHenry, Murphy, no 2nd KPD, average HB flankers and midfield youth causing problems.
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I dont hate keays at all and posters saying I do is ridiculous.

How can I hate a bloke I dont even know ffs..

I’ve repeated endlessly that I respect what keays has been and acheived over the rebuilding period of the last few years..

But the time to move on from him has arrived.. we have more highly skilled options that we need to develop ASAP.. leaving them to rot in the sanfl while we keep gifting game after game to guys like keays and sloane is ludicrous.

Keays hasnt got the skills to win us the big games.

Time to move on from him and several others that just arent up to it.
 
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