Selling out

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RacerX

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A lot of you guys completely write off a band with two words, "sold out". I was wondering what does it actually mean?

Does it mean they accepted a contract with a large recording studio. Maybe they have altered their musical style to a more popular form.

So whaddayareckon then?
 
'Any artist that makes money is a sell out' - Homer Simpson

(I think that's what he said....the Homerpalooza episode).

But I do think that if an artist compromises their creative vision for sales, that's my definition of selling out.
 
I picked the second option. Nothing wrong with making a few bucks from their music, but if they change their style simply to sell more records and make more money then to me that is "selling out". Music should be a form of expression and not merely compliance to a formula for popularity.
 

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Originally posted by Pornstar
I picked the second option. Nothing wrong with making a few bucks from their music, but if they change their style simply to sell more records and make more money then to me that is "selling out". Music should be a form of expression and not merely compliance to a formula for popularity.
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Completely Agree.

Anyone that changes to make a quick buck is a sell out.
 
Sell out
1. To dispose of completely by selling.
2 To betray.
3 The Offspring.
 
Originally posted by Pornstar
I picked the second option. Nothing wrong with making a few bucks from their music, but if they change their style simply to sell more records and make more money then to me that is "selling out". Music should be a form of expression and not merely compliance to a formula for popularity.
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That's harsh. What about people who not so much "change" but "evolve" to move with the times? Times change, our tastes change and sometimes artists do too.

Look at people like Madonna, George Michael, Kylie......love them or hate them, they've all been very successful in giving the masses what they want over a couple of decades. I wouldn't say any of them have "sold out". I'd say they're very astute business people.
 
I picked the second option, though with the caveat that it must be purely financially motivated and that the band's sound and image is significantly altered.

A lot of bands can assimilate trends and experiment and still stay fairly true to their identities. If they can pull that off then they can get away with it.

I also think there are some bands who don't have that much control over how many records are sold anyway....if all of a sudden one single or album cracks the charts wide open after years of moderate success, then it is pretty much beyond their control. However, the perception of the group is forever altered simply because of that new audience that arrives and pisses off the old one :)
 
Originally posted by mandy5


That's harsh. What about people who not so much "change" but "evolve" to move with the times? Times change, our tastes change and sometimes artists do too.

Look at people like Madonna, George Michael, Kylie......love them or hate them, they've all been very successful in giving the masses what they want over a couple of decades. I wouldn't say any of them have "sold out". I'd say they're very astute business people.
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Mandy, i have no problem with artists evolving - it's when they say "this really isn't my sort of thing, but i'll do it anyway to make some cash and be popular again" that i consider them to have sold out. Once you do that you are a puppet. The worst cases are when a has been tries to make a come back by doing a cover song. Tom Jones doing Kiss by Prince? Give me a break!
 
Originally posted by Pornstar
I picked the second option. Nothing wrong with making a few bucks from their music, but if they change their style simply to sell more records and make more money then to me that is "selling out". Music should be a form of expression and not merely compliance to a formula for popularity.
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Pretty good assessment.

I think Megadeth are an example of maturing gradually and evolving to make their albums "more killer, less filler".

Metallica changed their producer to quite openly chase chart action. Less 9 minute thrash songs, more 4-5 minute formula hard rock. Then flogging live stuff, re-releases, special editions and off-cuts... most of which are sub-standard and token releases.
 
Originally posted by Pornstar
Mandy, i have no problem with artists evolving - it's when they say "this really isn't my sort of thing, but i'll do it anyway to make some cash and be popular again" that i consider them to have sold out. Once you do that you are a puppet. The worst cases are when a has been tries to make a come back by doing a cover song. Tom Jones doing Kiss by Prince? Give me a break!
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Cool! I get ya! :)
 
Originally posted by Rocco Jones
Sell out
1. To dispose of completely by selling.
2 To betray.
3 The Offspring.
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I reckon you can add a fourth to that list........METALLICA!
 
Option 2 is the real meaning of selling out.

A band/group that changes their musical style for the sole purpose of making lots of money.
Offspring is pretty much the prime example of this. Listen to Conspiracy of One compared to their earlier records and its almost a completely different band. No more hardcore punk tunes...just bubblegum punk crap made for the 13-15 year old market.
Blink 182 and Metallica are also sellouts.

Bands can change styles by what Mandy said by evolving. The Prodigy evolved from being a old school rave group (listen to Experience) to a band that really cant be put in any genre. They are now a band which has Electronic, Dance, Rave, Rock, Hip Hop, Funk and punk influences that cant be classed in any genre. Its just 'Prodigy music'. They didnt purposely change styles with the interest of making a dollar. They evolved like most electronic groups do over time.
 

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Originally posted by Macca19
Option 2 is the real meaning of selling out.

A band/group that changes their musical style for the sole purpose of making lots of money.
Offspring is pretty much the prime example of this. Listen to Conspiracy of One compared to their earlier records and its almost a completely different band. No more hardcore punk tunes...just bubblegum punk crap made for the 13-15 year old market.
Blink 182 and Metallica are also sellouts.

Bands can change styles by what Mandy said by evolving. The Prodigy evolved from being a old school rave group (listen to Experience) to a band that really cant be put in any genre. They are now a band which has Electronic, Dance, Rave, Rock, Hip Hop, Funk and punk influences that cant be classed in any genre. Its just 'Prodigy music'. They didnt purposely change styles with the interest of making a dollar. They evolved like most electronic groups do over time.
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Macca..........would you say Pantera have "evolved" from their early glam days back in the 80's?

I would have to say they have.......to them it's really never been about seeling thousands of records, but I just thought I'd get your opinion on it (and it better be good!:D )
 
I will say what does pi$$ me right off is when people that call any band that does well in the charts a sell out. Bands that dont change their style but just become popular for example Korn. Everybody reckons they changed their style...but i dont buy that crap. If anything Issues is twice as heavy and dark as what the self titled debut is...yet people say because they had a lot of success with Follow the Leader that they sold out. Which i find crap.

Not every band that gets success with a second or third album is a sell out.
 
Geez, the list is endless.

The Offspring, Blink 182, Sum41 (I don't think they were ever sold in anyway! ;)), Metallica, Eskimo Joe, and Silverchair are all prime examples of selling out.

Bands like Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, and Green Day have evolved successfully.

I picked option two, by the way.

The Hitman
 
Originally posted by CowboyFromHell


Macca..........would you say Pantera have "evolved" from their early glam days back in the 80's?

I would have to say they have.......to them it's really never been about seeling thousands of records, but I just thought I'd get your opinion on it (and it better be good!:D )
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They definatly didnt 'sell out' from their glam days to Cowboys From Hell.
Id say its similar to how LAPD turned to Korn. LAPD was a surf rock/metal band....they changed singers and changed name to Korn and with that came a different style but a style which was still influenced from LAPD.

I havent heard any Pantera stuff before Cowboy...but id say its similar to that. Pantera definatly evolved. And they have evolved again from Cowboys to Reinventing the Steel.
 
Originally posted by The Hitman
Geez, the list is endless.

The Offspring, Blink 182, Sum41 (I don't think they were ever sold in anyway! ;)), Metallica, Eskimo Joe, and Silverchair are all prime examples of selling out.

Bands like Radiohead, Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, and Green Day have evolved successfully.

I picked option two, by the way.

The Hitman
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Some good examples their Hitman........but I don't know if that Green Day one is correct. I would much prefer to listen to their older stuff compared to their new stuff.....their last album was pretty poor. Unlike Dookie, which is a classic, even though it's punk.......(and normally I hate that stuff!!! :mad: )
 
Originally posted by Macca19


They definatly didnt 'sell out' from their glam days to Cowboys From Hell.
Id say its similar to how LAPD turned to Korn. LAPD was a surf rock/metal band....they changed singers and changed name to Korn and with that came a different style but a style which was still influenced from LAPD.

I havent heard any Pantera stuff before Cowboy...but id say its similar to that. Pantera definatly evolved. And they have evolved again from Cowboys to Reinventing the Steel.
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Good answer.

I have heard a bit of their stuff before CFH, and it is not alot different, I think they just got over the way they looked back then (it really wasn't very pretty!;) )

And like you said, they definately have evolved since then. Even from FBD to TGSTK they evolved. They tried something different, esp with their guitars from album to album, but it wasn't to sell records or to sell out for that matter. It was just Pantera's way I guess.
 
Option 2 without a doubt.

I don't begrudge ANY muso making money from playing stuff they truly love, but have pity for those chasing the dollars.

Despite my ribbing RE: Pantera over the last few days, I have stated that they basically started that 'groovy thrashy stuff'. No way were they sellouts (Happy CFH?!;) ).

I also agree with Macca RE: Korn. They basically built on the Pantera blueprint, but added a lot of other stuff. Thus they became original (as opposed to LAPD).

I quite like some of their music, and I definitely wouldn't say they sold out. (Although their third album was touch & go... The last one was quite good, but the first one is still the best).

I remember hearing it BEFORE they really broke, after reading about them touring with Danzig (just after the 1st album was released), and thinking this 'sound' is really quite original - the downtuned bass, the melodic/harsh vocals and the interesting guitar phrasing and 'groovy' drums.

The thing that shi ts me now are the teenybopper crowd that has picked up on them.

When a band becomes 'trendy', many hardcore fans get turned off (myself included) by seeing something special to them blowup. If the band is staying true to itself (as I believe Korn have), good luck to them, but in the case of Metallica - it's easy to lose a lot of respect....

Now having said all of that and lost all my 'metal cred' for saying I like some Korn stuff, I'm going to go and blast some Napalm Death!:D
 
Originally posted by SydneyBomber
The thing that shi ts me now are the teenybopper crowd that has picked up on them.

When a band becomes 'trendy', many hardcore fans get turned off (myself included) by seeing something special to them blowup. If the band is staying true to itself (as I believe Korn have), good luck to them, but in the case of Metallica - it's easy to lose a lot of respect....
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It is annoying. But i reckon all teh teenies have forgotten about Korn now. Theyve moved onto Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park i reckon
 
The sell-out issue shouldn't be restricted to the bands themselves, there is the flipside, the "buy-in" by "new fans". For instance, I remember watching Frente do an in-store at Gaslight Records. They had a #1 hit with "Ordinary Angels", but hadn't had released "Accidentally Kelly Street" yet....so their star was still on the rise. Anyway, a couple of "fans" next to me made the comment, "You know, I hate all this new stuff they're playing". The only problem with their comment was that every song Frente had played was an old song that hadn't been released yet.
 
Originally posted by Danny Chook Fan Club
Why? Cos Daniel Johns sounds like himself rather than Eddie Vedder now? Can't agree.

If any mainstream band of today is evolving and maturing naturally, it's Silverchair.
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No.

They might be maturing and evolving, but they are doing so while aiming at commercial success. One thing that sh*ts me is when a band releases a single off an album months in advance of it's actual release, which is hammered into the ground so much by radio it isn't funny, all the while advertising the single and the album everywhere months in advance.

Silverchair have sold out Mark.

The Hitman
 
Originally posted by SydneyBomber
Despite my ribbing RE: Pantera over the last few days, I have stated that they basically started that 'groovy thrashy stuff'. No way were they sellouts (Happy CFH?!;) ).
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I'm happy mate!:D

I don't mind you ribbing on Pantera at all. Gives me something to reply to and discuss!

Even if, no matter what you say, you are always wrong!:D ;) :D

I think they should re-release some of their old stuff, would be a big hit!!:D :p ;)
 
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