Review Semi Final, 2019 - Brisbane Lions vs. GWS

Who were your five best players against GWS?


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lioninthesand

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Feb 22, 2016
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Just watched the replay. My thoughts. We were pretty good, I don't think 'nerves' really played a part, we missed shots but no real sitters. Oscars and Hippys posters were deep pockets pings.. Berry's was a sitter but nothing to write home about in terms of yips. They missed plenty too. Our senior guys stood up and our younger Guys were all ok, no one shat the bed so to speak. Andrews was down on output but not everyone can fire every game.

I no longer feel like it was 'the one that got away' as much as I did originally. Here's why. They controlled 75% of the first 2/3rds of the game. We had 2 ten minute bursts, but they were systematically more drilled than us. The second 1/4 where they stopped a tsunami of momentum and steadied with 5 goals was pretty remarkable. They took a Mayweather approach to the fight, we looked like we were throwing alot of punches and we were the agresser but not many were landing. Don't get it twisted, this isn't the GWS we beat a few months ago, they are back and unfortunantly for us, we caught them on a roll. The are tough, talanted and finals hardened, they also had nothing to lose.

We also went 4 goals down... TWICE. In any game teams who go down by 30 points or more lose 95% of the time. To do it once, ok, twice though?

When you are down the whole game (which was a developing trend again) you are constantly playing with the score board in mind and your opponent. It takes energy. So whilst it felt we should have buried them in the 4th.. they were actually adjusted to our desperately trying to cut the margin and we were low on scoring gusto by that stage.

Yes, if a few things go our way, we could have won. Yes, the stat line suggests a 5-6 goal win. But.. We can't expect to give up 2 lots of 4 goals over the game, chase them back down TWICE then get lucky falling over the line. They are far more seasoned, they are back in form and they Maywesthered us. Full credit to them, one of the most gutsy wins you'll see in a final.

We are young and composure (which has been an issue all season) got us in some instances across both games.

Don't get me wrong, straight sets f***ing stings but I can't help but be content. Had we put in a stinker is be angry, but we didn't. The boys left it all on the pitch.

It was frustrating, I had a bad feeling from the moment the finals fixture came out it would be straight sets.. but once it was and the manner in which we played (not great but not horrible) it just doesen't feel that bad. We finished 5th, it sucks but that feels about right in terms of a reflection of where we are at.

I also think we were cooked. It goes to show how seasoned you need to be to go to another gear in September. We just didn't have the experience, maturity or bodies to battle on. Perhaps making finals and the Geelong win was our Granny. We certainly wernt 'just getting started' that's for sure. We were 'just hanging in, running on emotion and raw adrenaline' if anything. I feel as if we would have gotten belted in a prelim at the G. That was our final stand, win or lose.

Also the Cats Cats Tigers wasnt good in the end. Cats, soft kill to finish the season would have been preferable. We weren't ever about needing ro adjust to finals, we were about confidence and surge scoring.. playing 3 games in row were teams stifled us made us lose confidence in our scoring power. We were better off going in neieve to what was in store, then we wouldn't develop new patterns and have lost confidence in our surging style. The back to back Tigers thing sucked, we could have knocked the Pies, Cats or the Eagles off first week but the Tigers stole our mojo.

Also think there is benefit going into the pre-season with confidence from the 16 wins but the burn from straight sets to keep them hungry. I was never convinced we were a genuine top 4 side - so maybe a false prelim dawn would have left the boys a little bit too contented.

Things that killed us over the season killed us in finals - Yips, slow starts and FORWARD ENTRIES. With the amount of ball we get, if we could improve of forward entries, it'll go a long way.

I'm devestated about straight sets but I have the next 7-8 years in mind.

Umps sucked.
 
Apr 4, 2015
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No one can predict the future ,especially in football.

We did amazingly well this year , beyond anyone's highest expectations, but at the same time we had an opportunity in a match we should've won and we couldn't get there . Those opportunities have to be grasped to be successful , often times it's just good fortune that gets you there . Collingwood was an umpire's whistle off a flag last year but they'll forever be the runner up who didn't take the opportunity when it was there.

I've got no reason to suspect that we won't be more than competitive next year but the guys are going to have to work even harder and we're going to need whatever luck comes our way.

It's pointless arguing about it. Let's hope the ride is as enjoyable as it was this year ,except for the last 2 weeks.
 
Apr 4, 2015
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Just watched the replay. My thoughts. We were pretty good, I don't think 'nerves' really played a part, we missed shots but no real sitters. Oscars and Hippys posters were deep pockets pings.. Berry's was a sitter but nothing to write home about in terms of yips. They missed plenty too. Our senior guys stood up and our younger Guys were all ok, no one shat the bed so to speak. Andrews was down on output but not everyone can fire every game.

I no longer feel like it was 'the one that got away' as much as I did originally. Here's why. They controlled 75% of the first 2/3rds of the game. We had 2 ten minute bursts, but they were systematically more drilled than us. The second 1/4 where they stopped a tsunami of momentum and steadied with 5 goals was pretty remarkable. They took a Mayweather approach to the fight, we looked like we were throwing alot of punches and we were the agresser but not many were landing. Don't get it twisted, this isn't the GWS we beat a few months ago, they are back and unfortunantly for us, we caught them on a roll. The are tough, talanted and finals hardened, they also had nothing to lose.

We also went 4 goals down... TWICE. In any game teams who go down by 30 points or more lose 95% of the time. To do it once, ok, twice though?

When you are down the whole game (which was a developing trend again) you are constantly playing with the score board in mind and your opponent. It takes energy. So whilst it felt we should have buried them in the 4th.. they were actually adjusted to our desperately trying to cut the margin and we were low on scoring gusto by that stage.

Yes, if a few things go our way, we could have won. Yes, the stat line suggests a 5-6 goal win. But.. We can't expect to give up 2 lots of 4 goals over the game, chase them back down TWICE then get lucky falling over the line. They are far more seasoned, they are back in form and they Maywesthered us. Full credit to them, one of the most gutsy wins you'll see in a final.

We are young and composure (which has been an issue all season) got us in some instances across both games.

Don't get me wrong, straight sets f***ing stings but I can't help but be content. Had we put in a stinker is be angry, but we didn't. The boys left it all on the pitch.

It was frustrating, I had a bad feeling from the moment the finals fixture came out it would be straight sets.. but once it was and the manner in which we played (not great but not horrible) it just doesen't feel that bad. We finished 5th, it sucks but that feels about right in terms of a reflection of where we are at.

I also think we were cooked. It goes to show how seasoned you need to be to go to another gear in September. We just didn't have the experience, maturity or bodies to battle on. Perhaps making finals and the Geelong win was our Granny. We certainly wernt 'just getting started' that's for sure. We were 'just hanging in, running on emotion and raw adrenaline' if anything. I feel as if we would have gotten belted in a prelim at the G. That was our final stand, win or lose.

Also the Cats Cats Tigers wasnt good in the end. Cats, soft kill to finish the season would have been preferable. We weren't ever about needing ro adjust to finals, we were about confidence and surge scoring.. playing 3 games in row were teams stifled us made us lose confidence in our scoring power. We were better off going in neieve to what was in store, then we wouldn't develop new patterns and have lost confidence in our surging style. The back to back Tigers thing sucked, we could have knocked the Pies, Cats or the Eagles off first week but the Tigers stole our mojo.

Also think there is benefit going into the pre-season with confidence from the 16 wins but the burn from straight sets to keep them hungry. I was never convinced we were a genuine top 4 side - so maybe a false prelim dawn would have left the boys a little bit too contented.

Things that killed us over the season killed us in finals - Yips, slow starts and FORWARD ENTRIES. With the amount of ball we get, if we could improve of forward entries, it'll go a long way.

I'm devestated about straight sets but I have the next 7-8 years in mind.

Umps sucked.
We were definitely half cooked after the Geelong game and on reflection we left it too late to swing a few changes .Once we lost that edge in confidence we were always under the pump . But let's be honest we still should've won this game , the 4 goal start was half a fluke on their part ,and who knows what happens next week.
 

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lioninthesand

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 22, 2016
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Witherden could also have killed the contest or tried marking the ball instead of running into that contest or bodied Daniels out of the contest instead of doing nothing and then quitting while Daniels sailed past him. Not sure how anyone can defend Witherden’s pathetic effort in that last play because every media outlet and former players have clipped his pitiful effort.

Witho went to go front and center with Harris in a spoiling position. He probably should have stayed with the runner. Then he couldn't get to his man and his hips got knocked off balanced and a way faster player got the instep. We know he's not quick, he probably should have done the 'symbolic chase'.. To suggest it's some hangable offense is just OTT. He got exposed, he is feeling like s**t about it, he is getting trolled for it.. but it's footy, it happens. I know your style is to need someone to harpoon and blame a player for the loss.. but I'll be pretty disappointed if I have to listen to Alex's character be questioned all summer over that incident.
 
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davemc_lions

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Greene will get off. The AFL will make sure of it again.
he really should get rubbed out longer honestly no need to be second in and go for the face.
AFL should also look at Mummy I only play to cork people..
Chatted about umps. Mates said we have 8 more frees I said 8 came from Mummy taking someone out. 7 to Martin who he went for the hardest.
Fair enough they said yep. fair enough he a snipper..
 

Thedeftouch

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You strike when you have the opportunity and we blew it spectacularly. There is nothing to suggest we’ll make the eight again next year or that there will be a period of sustained success in September.

There was a small window to win a GF this year as Essendon did in 93 and it’s not like it is a given that the window is necessarily open in the coming years. A couple of season long injuries to key players and we’ll be back to bottom four before you know it.

Sorry man, I have to use the "ignore" function on you, I don't want to read the constant negativity.
 

lioninthesand

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Feb 22, 2016
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Wasted opportunity.

Heard a couple of good discussions since the game. Even the stats support that on average, two plus teams fall out of the eight from the previous year, just as one top four team exits in straight sets each year.

There is no way we’ll have such a charmed run with injuries and of course, a harder draw. Then there is also the vagaries of player movement which could go the other way too.

You strike when you have the opportunity and we blew it spectacularly. There is nothing to suggest we’ll make the eight again next year or that there will be a period of sustained success in September.

There was a small window to win a GF this year as Essendon did in 93 and it’s not like it is a given that the window is necessarily open in the coming years. A couple of season long injuries to key players and we’ll be back to bottom four before you know it.

We didn't have a deep finals run in us though, did we? we are young, we over achieved in the regular season and we got beaten. Blew it spectacularly? lol. it's easy to sit back and predict a drop away next year, then you are either right and you'll brag about it all season or you're wrong and you are happy we are good again. Pretty comfortable position to take. We are at the very start of our arc, we are the second youngest team in the league and heaps of improvement in us. Assuming we just blew our entire exsistance the day after a finals loss reeks of an especially emotional reaction to our finals outcome.
 
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Apr 4, 2015
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We didn't have a deep finals run in us though, did we? we are young, we over achieved in the regular season and we got beaten. Blew it spectacularly? lol. it's easy to sit back and predict a drop away next year, then you are either right and you'll brag about it all season or you're wrong and you are happy we are good again. Pretty comfortable position to take. We are at the very start of our arc, we are the second youngest team in the league and heaps of improvement in us. Assuming we just blew our entire assistance the day after a finals loss reeks of an especially emotional reaction to our finals outcome.
I've got to admit I can't remember being as gutted after a loss since the '83 final against the Hawks when we were just plain robbed by Glenn James.

Couldn't sleep last night . It just seemed so many things went against us.

So imagine how the players are feeling privately . Now isn't the time for any recriminations , we're a whole pre season away from another game and the slate is clean for everyone as far as I'm concerned. But we do have young players who've been in the team all year who have areas of their game they need to work on prior to 2020.

Everyone gave their all .It wasn't our night.
 

lioninthesand

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Feb 22, 2016
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We were definitely half cooked after the Geelong game and on reflection we left it too late to swing a few changes .Once we lost that edge in confidence we were always under the pump . But let's be honest we still should've won this game , the 4 goal start was half a fluke on their part ,and who knows what happens next week.

I disagree. We could have win, but I don't think we should have won.

Teams have been losing key stat lines and winning for a while now.

They controlled the first 10 minutes, the controlled the 2nd 1/4 and more than half of the third. Yes, we had bursts and we started getting ball going in the forth but we had been up againts the ropes the whole game holding on.

Also, once we scored, they controlled the last 5 minutes. 5 minutes was too long to defend after chasing all game.

As I said, it was a Mayweather type of victory, did less to achieve more and controlled the parts of the game they needed to. Worthy victors even if we threw more punches.
 
There was a variety of reasons. They also had too many inside mids and not eough outside mids.

That is related to the rule change tbh
 

lioninthesand

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Feb 22, 2016
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I've got to admit I can't remember being as gutted after a loss since the '83 final against the Hawks when we were just plain robbed by Glenn James.

Couldn't sleep last night . It just seemed so many things went against us.

So imagine how the players are feeling privately . Now isn't the time for any recriminations , we're a whole pre season away from another game and the slate is clean for everyone as far as I'm concerned. But we do have young players who've been in the team all year who have areas of their game they need to work on prior to 2020.

Everyone gave their all .It wasn't our night.

Last sentence Brother. That's all there is.
 

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Apr 4, 2015
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I disagree. We could have win, but I don't think we should have won.

Teams have been losing key stat lines and winning for a while now.

They controlled the first 10 minutes, the controlled the 2nd 1/4 and more than half of the third. Yes, we had bursts and we started getting ball going in the forth but we had been up againts the ropes the whole game holding on.

Also, once we scored, they controlled the last 5 minutes. 5 minutes was too long to defend after chasing all game.

As I said, it was a Mayweather type of victory, did less to achieve more and controlled the parts of the game they needed to. Worthy victors even if we threw more punches.
Don't agree buddy. Crucial umpiring decisions . We could have easily nailed another 2 or 3 in the last quarter . They were more done than we were.

Yes they played well ,but we played well enough to win it if things went our way just a little bit . Even that double goal in the first couple of minutes,just an ump pluck to restore order ,that not paid and who knows.

We can talk about it till the cows come home. It's over now.
 

lioninthesand

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Feb 22, 2016
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Don't agree buddy. Crucial umpiring decisions . We could have easily nailed another 2 or 3 in the last quarter . They were more done than we were.

Yes they played well ,but we played well enough to win it if things went our way just a little bit . Even that double goal in the first couple of minutes,just an ump pluck to restore order ,that not paid and who knows.

We can talk about it till the cows come home. It's over now.

Yeah it's pointless. I'm saying the team that won should have won, and you are saying the team that lost should have won.. if I was a lawyer I know what side I would want to be defending :)
 
Oct 13, 2001
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Don't agree buddy. Crucial umpiring decisions . We could have easily nailed another 2 or 3 in the last quarter . They were more done than we were.

Yes they played well ,but we played well enough to win it if things went our way just a little bit . Even that double goal in the first couple of minutes,just an ump pluck to restore order ,that not paid and who knows.

We can talk about it till the cows come home. It's over now.

It sucks but you are right.

Last night I was incandescent with rage but today I am just sad, not so much for myself but for our players who gave everything but were denied by happenstance and inconsistencies in umpiring.

That type of double goal only happens in the first few minutes when the umps decide they are going to stamp their "authority" on the game. No way is a freebie of that nature going to happen in the dying minutes in a tight contest.

They paid every other free kick in the book for the rest of the game except the most blatant one that decided the game. Not because they are cheats but because that throw just happened to blindside all three of them at once. Probably gets picked up 98% of the time but not this time.

We were dead set unlucky and I really wish we could all just be a bit kinder to each other . You know, a bit of group therapy instead of this scapegoating and sulking bullshit that some are going on with.

FWIW, I had a clear view of that "contest" where Daniells got away from Witherden for the winning goal.

All this panning of Witho for "giving up" is nonsense. Once Daniells got a meter on him, Witherden was NEVER EVER going to get anywhere near him. Daniells is super fast, Witho would have needed the speed of Usain Bolt to get to him. There were still over 2 minutes left. What for crying out loud would,have been the point in him expending unnecessary energy and totally cooking himself at that point? It was an acute angle and hes's probably only a 50% chance of kicking it anyway.

I wish people would just lay off with the finger pointing,

The 20,000 or so who stayed after the siren and belted out the LIONS" chant and applauded ALL our boys off the park should be an inspiration and an example to all.
 
That type of double goal only happens in the first few minutes when the umps decide they are going to stamp their "authority" on the game. No way is a freebie of that nature going to happen in the dying minutes in a tight contest

Double goal was so disappointing.

They never paid it again even though they had plenty of chances to. Plenty of dodgy hits on our players off the ball after a goal went unpunished. So inconsistent and in a close game it's just so frustrating
 

lioninthesand

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It sucks but you are right.

Last night I was incandescent with rage but today I am just sad, not so much for myself but for our players who gave everything but were denied by happenstance and inconsistencies in umpiring.

That type of double goal only happens in the first few minutes when the umps decide they are going to stamp their "authority" on the game. No way is a freebie of that nature going to happen in the dying minutes in a tight contest.

They paid every other free kick in the book for the rest of the game except the most blatant one that decided the game. Not because they are cheats but because that throw just happened to blindside all three of them at once. Probably gets picked up 98% of the time but not this time.

We were dead set unlucky and I really wish we could all just be a bit kinder to each other . You know, a bit of group therapy instead of this scapegoating and sulking bulls**t that some are going on with.

FWIW, I had a clear view of that "contest" where Daniells got away from Witherden for the winning goal.

All this panning of Witho for "giving up" is nonsense. Once Daniells got a meter on him, Witherden was NEVER EVER going to get anywhere near him. Daniells is super fast, Witho would have needed the speed of Usain Bolt to get to him. There were still over 2 minutes left. What for crying out loud would,have been the point in him expending unnecessary energy and totally cooking himself at that point? It was an acute angle and hes's probably only a 50% chance of kicking it anyway.

I wish people would just lay off with the finger pointing,

The 20,000 or so who stayed after the siren and belted out the LIONS" chant and applauded ALL our boys off the park should be an inspiration and an example to all.

The umpiring was terrible. They lost control and composure for large parts.

It DID NOT cost us the game though. We got a very tough run for the last 7 minutes of the 2nd and a few bad ones here or there. Some of ours cost or caused goals but it was that way for them too.

Darcy made contact with a players chin, obvious free kick. Just silly.

We also had 9-1 frees in the last 1/4 which often set up our repeat entries, Bundy's free-kick to give us the lead was also not there, Heath Shaws tangle with Charlie (which resulted in a point) in the first was barely a free.

As I said terribly umpired game, but after watching the replay, we got lots of good whistle throughout the contest, more than enough to even up the 50/50's that didn't go our way.

The throw sucks but the umpire was blindsided.
 
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FWIW, I had a clear view of that "contest" where Daniells got away from Witherden for the winning goal.

All this panning of Witho for "giving up" is nonsense. Once Daniells got a meter on him, Witherden was NEVER EVER going to get anywhere near him. Daniells is super fast, Witho would have needed the speed of Usain Bolt to get to him. There were still over 2 minutes left. What for crying out loud would,have been the point in him expending unnecessary energy and totally cooking himself at that point? It was an acute angle and hes's probably only a 50% chance of kicking it anyway.
Agree, happened down directly in front of us, once Daniels got in front of him it was all over red rover and Witho ran as hard as he could. As another poster said, maybe his only other option was to scrag him for a free but he would have probably got up and played on with the same result.
 

Gabbattoir

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Yeah we were right there to see it too. Poor bloke had no chance. And I only thought about the professional free kick later and that is with the hindsight of knowing he kicked the goal. No way any player thinks about giving away a free kick in the fifty with that amount of time to go.
 

davemc_lions

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Demons also put a lot of their list in for operations everyone came back late.
I expected them to get it together more after the bye.
Rule changes did not help I think with 6-6-6
We hopefully in a better spot.
I say we land another big fish in the trade and a few we did not know we needed to help.
Another preseason into our young kids, but also Adams and McCarthy who not played too much over the last few years will help.
 

adey115

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In terms of the Umpiring, I'd compare them to Australia in the cricket in that last session during the third test where we lost it. Irrational panic, in a sporting event that just required a clearer mind. Clearly they lost the plot as the contest got hotter and hotter. There were appalling moments against both sides during the game, and it seemed to come in waves. I'd think to our detriment overall, but it wasn't totally a one way street in terms of baffling.

The worst part is when they guess at what happened. The Harris Andrews throw was a guess when you look at where Razor Ray was positioned. There was no way he could actually see what happened from his position, and we could see his position clearly on TV. Umpiring 101 - don't guess at what might have happened.
 
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Commiserations on the loss.

Here are the midfield frequency stats from the game - this is an overall summary of how often your players were lining up as one of the 5 mids at bounces. As CD's official centre clearance stats are no longer available via the AFL's match centre, I've tabulated my own for this match - it appears CD's definition of what a centre clearance is and what mine is differ (as I had you down for 14 centre clearances vs. their 13).

Overall Summary - 26 Bounces

McCluggage 23 (16w, 7i)
Neale 20 - de Boer 18
Zorko 19 (1w)
J.Berry 16 (9i, 7w)
J.Lyons 14
Answerth 14 wing
Bailey 13 wing
McCarthy 7
Rayner 2
Robertson 2 wing
Christensen 1

Rucks:
Martin 16
McInerney 10

Centre Clearances
Zorko 5
Martin 3
J.Berry 1
Neale 1
J.Lyons 1
McCluggage 1
Answerth 1
McInerney 1

Q1 - 9

McCluggage 9 (6w, 3i)
Neale 9
J.Berry 6 (3w, 3i)
Answerth 5 wing
Zorko 4
J.Lyons 3
Bailey 3 wing
McCarthy 3
Rayner 2
Robertson 1 wing

Martin 5
McInerney 4

Q2 - 8

Neale 7
Zorko 6 (1w)
J.Lyons 6
Bailey 5 wing
McCluggage 4 (3w, 1i)
J.Berry 4 (2i, 2w)
Answerth 4 wing
McCarthy 2
Robertson 1 wing
Christensen 1

Martin 7
McInerney 1

Q3 - 4

McCluggage 4 (2w, 2i)
Neale 4
Zorko 4
Answerth 3 wing
McCarthy 2
J.Berry 2 wing

McInernery 2
Martin 2

Q4 - 5

McCluggage 5 (3w, 2i)
Zorko 5
J.Lyons 5 (1w)
J.Berry 4
Bailey 4 wing
Answerth 2 wing

Martin 2
McInerney 3

Notes:
- Interesting as a neutral that 2 of your best 3 clearance players for the season had full quarters where they exclusively started as forwards at bounces.
- Neale's 76.9% bounce attendance ratio was his 2nd lowest of this season's 15 analysed games
 

irish

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the mummy throw was the most blatant efforts I have seen in many years , how could 3 umpires miss it ? Gets called we get possession then ice the game

Not many mentioning it Interesting , !! Garry Lyon bout all
 
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More disappointing then Witherdens chase was the fact we had no defensive setup after a stoppage within 100m of opposition goals with the game on line.

Rioli did the same to us last week. Players shouldn’t be able to get goal side of the entire defence that easily and run 50m with no opposition.
 
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