Review Semi final vs Hawthorn - Ugly, Historically Embarrassing and Pathetic

[MRB37]

... what's he been recruited to do, please?
I saw him on The Front Bar a couple weeks ago. He said he was retired and the Crows called him up and asked him to contribute in some vague way that he did not specify (that I could tell).
My understanding was he's on the Board, unpaid, part-time, with no decision-making power at all.

Either he's got more power/influence than he was letting on, or he's not doing much or even expected to.

He's there to provide an expert opinion to the board and i'm not sure about the Hawks game, but he was in the box from what I saw for the Collingwood game, so he's obviously keeping eyes to see how things are running.

 

[Billy Cart]

They beat us in clearances by 6, it’s not that big a deal. They had 25 more disposals for 21 more inside 50s and 14 more scoring shots. That comes down to system and ball movement. The raw clearance numbers weren’t the primary issue, it’s what we did with the ball when we had it in our hands.

I'll say it again and again. We shouldn't have won against Brisbane, Collingwood and Hawthorne in the minor round therefore not finishing top of the wozza. The three of them couldn't buy a goal in the last quarter in each of these games and we hung on. That and not coping with pressure against West Coast and North and there is the blue print of how we went in the finals.

 

[Ian Dunross]

One thing that I admired about Pike from afar was his public messaging about expectations - we expect to win it, called out poor performance when it happened, no excuses - is my memory.

Winner mentality - obviously that came at a cost with how they handled the GF loss, but it was damn good until then.

Need more of that. Sam Mitchell has it. His leadership oozes winning mentality. Nicks needs to find that.

He's had it before, hard demeanour. Needs to rechannel it.

 

[CrowBloke]

Agreed- sorta. Coaching/development an obvious issue but on field actions (or non actions) are on the players for mine…

I don't know.
I can't see the players making a collective decision to play Nicks' 2024 ultra-defensive game, just because it's Finals.
For both the QF and SF, I kept thinking "Where is the side that finished in first place?".

Their game "style" (which lacked style, and flair, run-on and overlap energy) had to be a Nicks directive.

 

[George CantStandYa]

One thing that I admired about Pike from afar was his public messaging about expectations - we expect to win it, called out poor performance when it happened, no excuses - is my memory.

Winner mentality - obviously that came at a cost with how they handled the GF loss, but it was damn good until then.

Need more of that. Sam Mitchell has it. His leadership oozes winning mentality. Nicks needs to find that.

He's had it before, hard demeanour. Needs to rechannel it.

We just need him to be sacked

 

[CrowBloke]

Anyone watch the Footy Show on Ch9 today?

There was a damning segment which highlighted Keane's poor marking of Gunston.
The videos showed clearly that Keane allowed Gunston to get separation, sometimes by 15 or 20 metres and the Hawks fed Gunston easily.
I don't blame Keane only.
Nicks should have woken up and made a switch, or even selected Butts or retained Bond to do a job on Gunston.

 

[32year crow]

Shoot me if you like but posters complaining about Drapers poor disposal are not paying attention to Dawson’s, Laird’s, Soligo or even Rankine (when he was playing) midfield disposals. Draper will be fine. He needs a bigger body to cope with AFL. He finds it, has quick feet and will find space in tight with those attributes. His movement will create time and his disposal will improve.

I thought we turned the corner in terms of our mids working together to create space for each other and create a precise exit from clearances earlier in the year. False dawn. We went back to the same patterns which never worked.

Finally we believed that Rob would compete.

 

[1970crow]

Its not necessarily the clearance number, Hawthorn's were clean.... ours were always rushed.

Agree, that’s part of the issue being what we did with ball in hand.

 

[CrowBloke]

He's there to provide an expert opinion to the board and i'm not sure about the Hawks game, but he was in the box from what I saw for the Collingwood game, so he's obviously keeping eyes to see how things are running.

Thanks for that .
If he was in the box for the Collingwood game, then either
--- he made no useful observations or suggestions to Nicks about Game Plan (the Crows served up the same steaming pile of shit both games)
OR
--- Balme saw what happened, chatted Nicks and was ignored.

My guess is the latter.

 

[Ian Dunross]

We just need him to be sacked

Not saying he's perfect but his results are good in the circumstances of a rebuild IMO.

From afar, I would say he's done a decent job, but I defer to Crows supporters like you.

 

[MRB37]

Not saying he's perfect but his results are good in the circumstances of a rebuild IMO.

From afar, I would say he's done a decent job, but I defer to Crows supporters like you.

He has credit for getting us this far, but these finals were a test to see if he has it in him to take us to the next step. He utterly failed that test IMO and all his flaws were just magnified as he went back to his safe and conservative approach that has handicapped whenever he's pushed in that direction.

 

[MRB37]

Thanks for that .
If he was in the box for the Collingwood game, then either
--- he made no useful observations or suggestions to Nicks about Game Plan (the Crows served up the same steaming pile of shit both games)
OR
--- Balme saw what happened, chatted Nicks and was ignored.

My guess is the latter.

I'm guessing it was just mostly observational in nature, rather than to provide direct feedback to the coaching group. But if Balme is having input into football decisions it's a good thing for him to see.

 

[madstar]

Thanks for that .
If he was in the box for the Collingwood game, then either
--- he made no useful observations or suggestions to Nicks about Game Plan (the Crows served up the same steaming pile of shit both games)
OR
--- Balme saw what happened, chatted Nicks and was ignored.

My guess is the latter.

Can’t be bothered reading the whole thread too devastated but wondering if Balme’s role is too informal and so easily brushed aside by Nicks. Starting Rash as sub, having Murphy as first emergency, a full game for Smith. There were definitely other options. And all year he has not developed youth when there were many options to do so. Not reflecting on his own performance in the presser. Not moving Keane off Gunston. A couple of real howlers in there.

 

[UcantCme]

I actually place the September embarrassment blame at the players

There is no way in hell we are coached to play differently- all the pre-finals messaging was to get back to our attacking footy

The players went in there shells - they feared losing rather than attacked winning

The players lost this above the shoulders

 

[Shuestar13]

Can’t be bothered reading the whole thread too devastated but wondering if Balme’s role is too informal and so easily brushed aside by Nicks. Starting Rash as sub, having Murphy as first emergency, a full game for Smith. There were definitely other options. And all year he has not developed youth when there were many options to do so. Not reflecting on his own performance in the presser. Not moving Keane off Gunston. A couple of real howlers in there.

If Matthew wants to disregard Neil then that will be to his detriment. Neil along with the rest of the board will be needing to decide if he (Nicks) deserves a new contract. If he botches next year, it won’t end well for him.

Hoping that he uses the offseason for an opportunity to reflect and look at what he did and didn’t do and where to improve.

It was interesting reading something Chol said in terms of how last year Hawthorn just happy to be there (the finals) whereas this year, they believe and are more focused. Possibly a similar thing for the Crows, despite finishing on top, maybe the players didn’t truly believe, a long period out of the finals, a relief to be back there and then add the Rankine saga. All adds up in the end, expecting a much different looking team for the 2026 finals campaign. The captain will lead from the front, his interview was a mix of embarrassment and thinly veiled fury, first and foremost at himself. He appears to be one who sets very high standards for himself, I don’t expect he will play that badly again in future finals.

 

[George CantStandYa]

I actually place the September embarrassment blame at the players

There is no way in hell we are coached to play differently- all the pre-finals messaging was to get back to our attacking footy

The players went in there shells - they feared losing rather than attacked winning

The players lost this above the shoulders

Well that would be an idiotic opinion.

First off, if the players aren’t playing to coaches instructions, what does that say about the coaches? Do you think the coaches told the players to run, handball receive and we just didn’t do it?

That was the messaging from the coaches was it? Where?

Second, isn’t it the coaches job to ease the players and have them ready for finals?

But then the players had no involvement in:

1) playing 9 defenders in the first final
2) playing Max out of position
3) allowing Moore to play as a spare
4) starting Rach as the sub
5) playing Murray over Butts
6) not moving Keane off Gunston
7) not applying a hard tag on Newcombe

Yeah, let’s just blame the players, the coaches coached well.

 

[ABAB]

I actually place the September embarrassment blame at the players

There is no way in hell we are coached to play differently- all the pre-finals messaging was to get back to our attacking footy

The players went in there shells - they feared losing rather than attacked winning

The players lost this above the shoulders

The game plan clearly changed from the 1st half of the Hawks game compared to the 2nd half.

 

[CrowBloke]

I'm guessing it was just mostly observational in nature, rather than to provide direct feedback to the coaching group.

.
My best mate and I went early morning fishing today and talked about the Hawks game. He was at the game; I watched Ch7.
Only one topic of many:
BOTH of us could see that Gunston was getting away from Keane and both of us were waiting (frustrated) for Nicks to make a change.
No doubt most of the posters in here saw the same thing.
If Balme's role is mostly observational then any one of us could do what he's doing and come up with a useful suggestion for Nicks ie do a better job.

Personally, I'd love to sit in the Coach's box and just observe.

But if Balme is having input into football decisions it's a good thing for him to see.

Sorry --- what's a good thing for him to see please?

 

[Bay62]

It's the most diabolic kick I've ever seen - I could kick better than he can - and I'm shit! He's knock-kneed, so I'm sure that that contributes but good lord... he should be banned from ever kicking the ball should he get it. And they also should agree NOT to give him the ball. EVER.

Unfortunately Rob has that very awkward kicking style and barely makes contact with the ball when he’s got plenty of time after taking a mark or free kick - he certainly can’t do it under pressure on the run!

 

[GreyCrow]

I actually place the September embarrassment blame at the players

There is no way in hell we are coached to play differently- all the pre-finals messaging was to get back to our attacking footy

The players went in there shells - they feared losing rather than attacked winning

The players lost this above the shoulders

Ok lets accept this - and I agree we cant ignore the players - but who controls this mental narrative?

Secondly if only there was a process where underperforming players could be managed week to week

 

[Bay62]

I'll say it again and again. We shouldn't have won against Brisbane, Collingwood and Hawthorne in the minor round therefore not finishing top of the wozza. The three of them couldn't buy a goal in the last quarter in each of these games and we hung on. That and not coping with pressure against West Coast and North and there is the blue print of how we went in the finals.

Correct. The only positive from it was that we did hang on whereas in the past we would have lost by 5 goals - but that’s skewed in those games because, as you said, we were lucky the other teams couldn’t kick straight. Some of that we can take credit for perceived pressure. So overall, 30% credit to us, 70% their inefficiency.

End result: Hawks and Pies step up the brutal pressure, go to work on RT, Dawson and our midfield, Rankine is out, they take away our turnover game - game over

 

[CrowBloke]

Can’t be bothered reading the whole thread too devastated but wondering if Balme’s role is too informal and so easily brushed aside by Nicks.

If so, I cannot see any point in Balme's involvement.

Starting Rash as sub, having Murphy as first emergency, a full game for Smith. There were definitely other options. And all year he has not developed youth when there were many options to do so. Not reflecting on his own performance in the presser. Not moving Keane off Gunston. A couple of real howlers in there.

All of the above!
One other thing; it was reported earlier in the week that Blighty had suggested moving Fogarty to the centre, just to try it.
I'd have loved to have seen that. It's the kind of unusual thing Blight would have tried and many of his hunches worked very well.
Of course, Nicks did not try it.
When Fogarty started with us, he was a wild bull with mongrel, toughness, and a ferocious resistance to being tackled.His fend is (or was) nearly as deadly as Dustin Martin's. Tex said he was harder than a cat's head.
Rowell now reminds me of Fogarty, then, but Fogarty's a better kick and I'd kill to have Rowell in our side.
Fogarty has been Nicksed, turned into a leading forward who rarely gets to use his mongrel toughness to get the ball and dish off to teammates. What a waste.

 

[CrowBloke]

Sun come up

Yes!
Sun came up while I was fishing and actually catching (big tommies, in a small patch of water cleansed by a ripping body of water, daily). My mate's theory was that squid who are being decimated by the algal bloom are tommy ruff predators and it was either freakish luck or he was right. We kept 2 dozen clean, healthy/meaty tommies which will have been filleted and beer-battered and snarfed by now by his large family, throwing back at least as many smaller ones.
We fished 0345 to 0630 and drove past mobs of roos and occasional black-pawed wallabies to the wonderful Normanville Bakery for brekkie. Birdlife and lush green everywhere.
It was a glorious morning.

A pox on the 2024-gameplan-Crows and their Finals' capitulations.

 

[CrowBloke]

Starting Rankine as sub is a fair enough call. The issue is Smith being selected, that shouldn’t have happened.

Rachele?

 

[MRB37]

.
My best mate and I went early morning fishing today and talked about the Hawks game. He was at the game; I watched Ch7.
Only one topic of many:
BOTH of us could see that Gunston was getting away from Keane and both of us were waiting (frustrated) for Nicks to make a change.
No doubt most of the posters in here saw the same thing.
If Balme's role is mostly observational then any one of us could do what he's doing and come up with a useful suggestion for Nicks ie do a better job.

Personally, I'd love to sit in the Coach's box and just observe.

Sorry --- what's a good thing for him to see please?

Nicks floundering in the coaching box.