Sen today

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What i do know is that Smorgan and ALL his present board members are starting causing rifts between supporters as well.

Smorgan might be using the catch cry unity, but alot of his actions have caused disunity amongst fans.

His actions might have caused different lines of thought, but the rifts are caused by the supporters themselves. Smorgon doesn't make people abuse each other, accuse each other of ignorance, resort to speculation and rhetoric to perpetuate a smear campaign.

Ugly supporter syndrome comes from within our own ranks, this is another thing Smorgon can not be blamed for.

 

[Mordan]

You quoted a long post talking about a lack of objectivity by asking me a question that makes no sense in relation to that post?

What I have referred to is the way I believe Moulton and Harrison were set up for a fall and the decisions were made long before they came online. What I have said is that the Unity ticket were bagged for not being progressive and not having a plan. Then when they have a plan, the plan is savaged because they won't reveal feasibility studies before community consultation.

Oh come on. Moulton and Harrison were no more set up than Smorgon, or Diggins or the DCT ticket. There was someone waiting in ambush for all of them.

For someone who seems to want to proclaim themselves as the voice of objectivity amongst all the barrow pushing, it looks a lot like you're letting your personal feelings about some posters cloud your judgement here.

 

[navier-stokes equation]

Oh come on. Moulton and Harrison were no more set up than Smorgon, or Diggins or the DCT ticket. There was someone waiting in ambush for all of them.

For someone who seems to want to proclaim themselves as the voice of objectivity amongst all the barrow pushing, it looks a lot like you're letting your personal feelings about some posters cloud your judgement here.

Good to see someone provide some balance

Welcome to the site Mordon

 

[verbs]

Oh come on. Moulton and Harrison were no more set up than Smorgon, or Diggins or the DCT ticket. There was someone waiting in ambush for all of them.

For someone who seems to want to proclaim themselves as the voice of objectivity amongst all the barrow pushing, it looks a lot like you're letting your personal feelings about some posters cloud your judgement here.

Vice versa.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

His actions might have caused different lines of thought, but the rifts are caused by the supporters themselves. Smorgon doesn't make people abuse each other, accuse each other of ignorance, resort to speculation and rhetoric to perpetuate a smear campaign.

Ugly supporter syndrome comes from within our own ranks, this is another thing Smorgon can not be blamed for.

His actions and the actions of other members of the board have caused ******** slinging and backstabbing amongst the board.

This in turn leads to the supporters of each board member turning ugly on each other to defend a board member or an agenda.

As a president his job should be to create a harmony amongst the board and members.

He has failed to do this and thus he is indirectly responsible for causing rifts between fans because of his inability to create a harmonious board.

 

[SA Blue]

Oh come on. Moulton and Harrison were no more set up than Smorgon, or Diggins or the DCT ticket. There was someone waiting in ambush for all of them.

For someone who seems to want to proclaim themselves as the voice of objectivity amongst all the barrow pushing, it looks a lot like you're letting your personal feelings about some posters cloud your judgement here.

The overall weight of numbers against the Unity ticket far outweighed the other side. This is plainly obvious. People asking good questions of the canditates is great and should be encouraged, but there are far too many people at the moment who are simply pushing their agenda.

 

[Mordan]

The overall weight of numbers against the Unity ticket far outweighed the other side. This is plainly obvious. People asking good questions of the canditates is great and should be encouraged, but there are far too many people at the moment who are simply pushing their agenda.

You'd expect that given they're the incumbants. There are always going to be more complaints about the incumbants than new candidates, especially when the new candidates are pretty much unknown to the majority of members.

The Old Dark Navy's made out that Harrison and Moulton received some sort of sub-standard treatment compared to the rest of the candidates. I just wanted to point out they were all ambushed by supporters of other tickets, and that perhaps Harrison and Moultons treatment looked worse from his perspective because of his dislike for the most vocal ambusher.

 

[SA Blue]

You'd expect that given they're the incumbants. There are always going to be more complaints about the incumbants than new candidates, especially when the new candidates are pretty much unknown to the majority of members.

The Old Dark Navy's made out that Harrison and Moulton received some sort of sub-standard treatment compared to the rest of the candidates. I just wanted to point out they were all ambushed by supporters of other tickets, and that perhaps Harrison and Moultons treatment looked worse from his perspective because of his dislike for the most vocal ambusher.

True, there is no doubt there are some very vocal ambushers who do make it look worse. It is a shame we can't debate based on the merit of the ideas, and people seem to be split on party lines.

Luckily there are a few good posters who seem to offer an objective view and seem to know their stuff.

 

[jj1978]

Unless any one of us are a board member or have been inside the inner sanctum to know WTF is going on the only thing we can do is hope the guy who was elected president is doing the right thing.

For all we know Smorgon is doing what is in the best interests for the CFC and doing it in a way that might not appease some members of the board and supporters.... this is politics sometimes things aren't as transparent in public.

Let's just hope and trust that the only guy to put his balls on the line after Collins left (and there was opportunity for others to put their hand up to become pres) is in fact doing the right things.

Regardless, I think the redev idea has merit and huge potential... whether it eventuates???

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The Old Dark Navy's made out that Harrison and Moulton received some sort of sub-standard treatment compared to the rest of the candidates. I just wanted to point out they were all ambushed by supporters of other tickets, and that perhaps Harrison and Moultons treatment looked worse from his perspective because of his dislike for the most vocal ambusher.

Did I anywhere say that TC collectively ambushed Moulton and Harrison? Whether it be a vocal ambusher or otherwise, I can see where the same level of respect was definitely NOT applied. In this way, I see a disservice being done to those that genuinely assess issues for themselves and are pro-change. Considering the vocal minority were all over that thread, my belief still stands. I was outraged but hardly surprised.

Yes there are pro-unity posters like winfield blue and denim undies at TC, who ambushed DCT and Diggins but my observation is that they were very much in the minority and the ambush doesn't look as pronounced.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

His actions and the actions of other members of the board have caused ******** slinging and backstabbing amongst the board.

This in turn leads to the supporters of each board member turning ugly on each other to defend a board member or an agenda.

As a president his job should be to create a harmony amongst the board and members.

He has failed to do this and thus he is indirectly responsible for causing rifts between fans because of his inability to create a harmonious board.

I can't agree with this line of thinking. It's like saying that people are compelled to turn nasty because they disagree over an issue, like they are not responsible for the way they articulate their own thoughts.

 

[sherb]

Did I anywhere say that TC collectively ambushed Moulton and Harrison? Whether it be a vocal ambusher or otherwise, I can see where the same level of respect was definitely NOT applied. In this way, I see a disservice being done to those that genuinely assess issues for themselves and are pro-change. Considering the vocal minority were all over that thread, my belief still stands. I was outraged but hardly surprised.

Yes there are pro-unity posters like winfield blue and denim undies at TC, who ambushed DCT and Diggins but my observation is that they were very much in the minority and the ambush doesn't look as pronounced.

Just to lighten things up for a minute, that is a great user name.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

I can't agree with this line of thinking. It's like saying that people are compelled to turn nasty because they disagree over an issue, like they are not responsible for the way they articulate their own thoughts.

Smorgan and his board have turned this whole election into one about personalities rather than the issues at hand.

People are attacking each other over personality rather than ideas.

 

[sherb]

I can't agree with this line of thinking. It's like saying that people are compelled to turn nasty because they disagree over an issue, like they are not responsible for the way they articulate their own thoughts.

And to get serious again, I totally agree with that. Smorgan isn't responsible for the behaviour of others. It has been totally the choice of whichever Board member it may be to indulge in potentially damaging behaviour.

And this is where I am extremely reluctant to get involved in taking sides. I think the Board as a whole should collectively take some responsibility for this mess. They are all allegedly bright, business savvy, Carlton loving administrators who are (again allegedly) there for the betterment of the Carlton Football Club.

And yet we have a group of people running the club who are not working as a cohesive unit. The supporters should start demanding better from each and every one of them. Every single member of the club's board should have a good hard look at him/herself in the mirror and start taking the appropriate level of personal responsibility for this shambles, rather than taking the easy option of playing the blame game.

At a personal level, I don't care anymore whose fault it is, who said this, who did that, who is right, who is wrong. I just want the lot of them, now and after the AGM, to start working together ffs. If that involves individual board members having to make concessions, having to back down on certain issues or......perish the thought.....actually compromising or working with people they don't always see eye to eye with.....well so be it.

It has crossed my mind of late to write to each Board member with exactly those sentiments. I may still do it because I am sick and tired of this crap. While I am at it, I would also like to ask them all how on earth the average, normal, working-class member is supposed to sift through all the information, misinformation, rumour, innuendo, rhetoric, press releases, mailouts, insinuations, etc, etc, etc and actually make an informed decision on who to vote for? Do they realize what a complete mess this has become for Joe "Carlton loving" Blow? Do they even care?

As for us Carlton supporters, are we not all supposed to be on the same side? Supporting the same club? Wanting the same outcomes on the field? I consider myself to be a pretty reasonable person in my dealings with other supporters, but man I have seen some not too pleasant posts and exchanges on this messageboard. At minimum surely we can all show a basic level of respect towards each other despite our views on this situation?

I have always thought that when a club is at rock bottom provides a good indicator of its mettle, determination and strength. Now, history may prove this current episode to be a necessary part of the club's "rebirth" but gee those three qualities I just mentioned are being sorely tested at the moment.

I can only pray that things sort themselves out sooner rather than later, because I am finding all this extremely difficult to stomach and comprehend.

 

[Mordan]

Did I anywhere say that TC collectively ambushed Moulton and Harrison? Whether it be a vocal ambusher or otherwise, I can see where the same level of respect was definitely NOT applied. In this way, I see a disservice being done to those that genuinely assess issues for themselves and are pro-change. Considering the vocal minority were all over that thread, my belief still stands. I was outraged but hardly surprised.

Yes there are pro-unity posters like winfield blue and denim undies at TC, who ambushed DCT and Diggins but my observation is that they were very much in the minority and the ambush doesn't look as pronounced.

All posters were ambushed, none were offered protection from any Carlton related questioning. The methods of ambush differed slightly, some prefering an agressive approach, some dropping snide remarks. I think you're drawing a long bow to say any "faction" was favoured by the Q & A sessions.

Plus, I really can't see how winfieldblue and denim undies consistute a minority whereas the person above somehow consistures a majority.

 

[OZBomb]

And to get serious again, I totally agree with that. Smorgan isn't responsible for the behaviour of others. It has been totally the choice of whichever Board member it may be to indulge in potentially damaging behaviour.

And this is where I am extremely reluctant to get involved in taking sides. I think the Board as a whole should collectively take some responsibility for this mess. They are all allegedly bright, business savvy, Carlton loving administrators who are (again allegedly) there for the betterment of the Carlton Football Club.

And yet we have a group of people running the club who are not working as a cohesive unit. The supporters should start demanding better from each and every one of them. Every single member of the club's board should have a good hard look at him/herself in the mirror and start taking the appropriate level of personal responsibility for this shambles, rather than taking the easy option of playing the blame game.

At a personal level, I don't care anymore whose fault it is, who said this, who did that, who is right, who is wrong. I just want the lot of them, now and after the AGM, to start working together ffs. If that involves individual board members having to make concessions, having to back down on certain issues or......perish the thought.....actually compromising or working with people they don't always see eye to eye with.....well so be it.

It has crossed my mind of late to write to each Board member with exactly those sentiments. I may still do it because I am sick and tired of this crap. While I am at it, I would also like to ask them all how on earth the average, normal, working-class member is supposed to sift through all the information, misinformation, rumour, innuendo, rhetoric, press releases, mailouts, insinuations, etc, etc, etc and actually make an informed decision on who to vote for? Do they realize what a complete mess this has become for Joe "Carlton loving" Blow? Do they even care?

As for us Carlton supporters, are we not all supposed to be on the same side? Supporting the same club? Wanting the same outcomes on the field? I consider myself to be a pretty reasonable person in my dealings with other supporters, but man I have seen some not too pleasant posts and exchanges on this messageboard. At minimum surely we can all show a basic level of respect towards each other despite our views on this situation?

I have always thought that when a club is at rock bottom provides a good indicator of its mettle, determination and strength. Now, history may prove this current episode to be a necessary part of the club's "rebirth" but gee those three qualities I just mentioned are being sorely tested at the moment.

I can only pray that things sort themselves out sooner rather than later, because I am finding all this extremely difficult to stomach and comprehend.

Well Said

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Its' funny how when someone comes out and says the bad things about our club, we accuse them of having their own agenda.

Exactly what is DW's agenda HBF? Definately not having a go at you HBF, but i just dont understand when people say that certain posters have an agenda, what do they mean?

I'm sure he's just as passionate about our club as the rest of us. I'm sure he doesn't want it going downhill anymore.

I find it hard to believe that an individual on a bigfooty forum has such large personal agendas that could hold the club ransom

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

While I am at it, I would also like to ask them all how on earth the average, normal, working-class member is supposed to sift through all the information, misinformation, rumour, innuendo, rhetoric, press releases, mailouts, insinuations, etc, etc, etc and actually make an informed decision on who to vote for? Do they realize what a complete mess this has become for Joe "Carlton loving" Blow? Do they even care?

As for us Carlton supporters, are we not all supposed to be on the same side?

Well said.

 

[drusswaylander]

All posters were ambushed, none were offered protection from any Carlton related questioning. The methods of ambush differed slightly, some prefering an agressive approach, some dropping snide remarks. I think you're drawing a long bow to say any "faction" was favoured by the Q & A sessions.

Plus, I really can't see how winfieldblue and denim undies consistute a minority whereas the person above somehow consistures a majority.

I think it is obvious there was a bias, although that was very obvious before the Q&A's started Smorgon, Moulton and Harrison were under the pump from the off, but they would have had to have expected that and both Q&A's went for a long time(more time to pick faults). Smorgon especially was being hammered with a line of questioning that seems to have been based on wrong information Again it was to be expected they would be besieged.

Diggins was treated with kid gloves, although there were a couple of glaring problems with what she said Again to be expected given the mood of the board and the information she supplies

The fairest exchange was the DCT Q&A. They were given some nice leading questions to expand their vision for the club, but they were also asked some hard ones. When it was obvious they weren't really prepared for the Q&A they weren't just blindly endorsed because they were anti Smorgon. The crowd turned

There was bias, but the DCT Q&A showed that it isn't all pervasive It is an internet forum so considering the environment it was probably better than could have been expected.

The Q&A's have been a great exercise and all those involved should be congratulated

 

[HBF]

Its' funny how when someone comes out and says the bad things about our club, we accuse them of having their own agenda.

Exactly what is DW's agenda HBF?

I'm sure he's just as passionate about our club as the rest of us. I'm sure he doesn't want it going downhill anymore.

I find it hard to believe that an individual on a bigfooty forum has such large personal agendas that could hold the club ransom

His agenda is that he wants change, no matter what, as does a few other posters around here. All I am saying is that we shouldn't just make a change at the top, just for the sake of changing.

We need to be 100% sure that the new person/team coming in can do a whole lot better than what the current administration has. Remember that the Collo/Smorgon board started along way back, with the amount of debt that they inherited.

I'm not saying for one minute that Smorgon has done a great job, but I don't think we should vote for change just for the sake of it.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Absolutey i agree HBF. Change for the sake of change is not a good enough reason.

It's all so complicated. Change for change is not on. But then again, nor is keepign Smorgan and co just for the sake of being scared of change, if that makes sense.


Argh. I can't wait for it all to be over This has separated blues suporters like i've never seen before.






hmmm....I wonder how many goals no.4 and no.5 will kick for us this year...

 

[HBF]

Absolutey i agree HBF. Change for the sake of change is not a good enough reason.

It's all so complicated. Change for change is not on. But then again, nor is keepign Smorgan and co just for the sake of being scared of change, if that makes sense.

Argh. I can't wait for it all to be over This has separated blues suporters like i've never seen before.

hmmm....I wonder how many goals no.4 and no.5 will kick for us this year...

It's becuase we've all got differing opinions on which direction the club should head.

Like I have said many times before, I am not a Smorgon fan, but I would prefer to give him another 12 months than make a change at the top just for the sake of it.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

nah, i'm pretty sure we all want teh club to head in the right direction - to the top.

It's way too hard.

I just had a thought though -

With Walker in the midfield - this may prove to be another occasional goal kicker. As well as Kennedy and Gibbs. And murphy playing all year. And cloke and Ackland up forward resting.

This means we now have Walker, Gibbs, Kennedy, Ackland and Cloke adding to our goal kicking.

Totally random, has been mentioned before i'm sure, but i just had a happy thought about our club and wanted to share it

 

[HBF]

^^^^ He'd just need to work on his disposal/kicking at goal before we even think of him in this role.

But nice deflection on the topic at hand!

 

[BlueWorld]

I'm not saying for one minute that Smorgon has done a great job, but I don't think we should vote for change just for the sake of it.

But that's what got the current board into power in the first place. And now the same people want them out just for the sake of change. Chances are they'll be saying the same thing about who they want in now in a few years.