Coach Senior Coach: John Worsfold - Thank you John

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BrunoV

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It’s funny how people tell us what to be satisfied with when their team makes grand finals.

We went backwards from 2017. 12-10 is nothing to commend. You don’t spend a ton of first round picks in trades to go backwards.

Last year, we started the season s**t and missed finals because of that.

The one thing he needed to do was get us ready for round one. We had most of our players. He didn’t. Nearly cost us finals again. Only reason it didn’t was because everyone else around us were s**t.

Ok we made it. The one thing we needed to do was remain competitive on Thursday. Again, another fail.

The biggest issue with Worsfold is that he genuinely believes this was a successful season. 12-10 with a % of 95 and another EF thrashing is apparently successful. No successful coach would ever say he was proud of yet another EF thrashing. Doesn’t set the right standard. Doesn’t challenge the players to improve.

He’s back again so he needs to pull his fingers out and set the right standard. Hopefully Rutten and Caracalla take care of gameplan.


So other than all that, what did those bloody Romans ever do for us?
 

srobbo

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This has to be some sort of succession plan next year with a view of a big shift on how we play.

I’d imagine Rutten/Cara are given the reins to a reasonable extent with him mentoring them.
 

Bjchan13

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This has to be some sort of succession plan next year with a view of a big shift on how we play.

I’d imagine Rutten/Cara are given the reins to a reasonable extent with him mentoring them.
Think its been the plan all year long and definitely since announcing caracellas appointment. I also believe Rutten knows he gets top job 2021.
 

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BrunoV

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I think it’s more that he did a reasonable job gives the circumstances and they’ve brought in Caracella to assist. Plus the fact he has a year left and should be given the chance.

$800k a year for a reasonable job?

We could have bought Gary Ayers a new car and he would have done a reasonable job.
 

BrunoV

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We were ahead of Collingwood for 0% of the time on ANZAC Day. I'm sick of people blaming the umps for losing a game we never lead in.
And overlooking winning games when losing CP by 50 and getting out of jail against GWS who should have put us to sleep in the 3rd.

It all balances out.

Not to mention that the game was over and a guy who'd be a top 5-7 kick for distance in the league couldn't even get close. It's not like he missed. The kick fell short by a considerable distance.
 
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Bjchan13

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If we finish 12th next year does Rutten still get the Job?
Obviously im speculating as much as anyone but it just looks like a succession plan to me and has for a while. Dont think our finishing position would change that too much. We know Wooshes family is in Perth and he probably wants to get there sooner rather than later. I feel like when he re-signed for 2 years in 2018 it was to help us transition to a senior coach. But again im guessing.
 

Fin ice Smuggler

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If we finish 12th next year does Rutten still get the Job?
Matty Lloyd big on Solomon? Problem is neither have coached a team in own right?

So many questions? Who's got their hands on exit interviews, recruitment, who's in charge match day? Was Rutten making the calls from coaches box this year when woosh went to bench? Who's addressing the players? Who fronts the media? Who's responsible for what?

They need to announce it otherwise if we have another poor pre season the media will come hunting like a pack of hungry wolves. Testing times.
 
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ghostdog

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I think this is the right decision. Sometimes it takes more guts to hold firm than to react to external pressure.

Based on several things that has happened last and this year I get the feeling we’ve had a constant internal review:
- Neeld, Paul Corrigan and Harding moved on from the assistant coaching panel.
- Turk and Crow moved on from the fitness department.
- Rutten and Caracalla high profile assistants recruited.

Who knows if there’s more change to come. Retirements of Myers, Baguley, Dea and talk of Laverde being on the table.

The win-loss has been the same the past three years but I see a major improvement in team defence and our injury list has been shocking compared with 2017.

Right call IMO.
I'm hoping they've been focusing on proven and exceptional fitness and conditioning staff. If we don't hit the field red hot in March the questions and scrutiny will be immediate.
 

The Donners

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its kind of funny that the first teams eliminated from the finals get the blow torch on them much more than the teams that missed the finals. I understand there is more focus on them because they are the only 2 out, rather than one of ten the week before but in the end, they still made the finals overr the other stragglers. Why smash the 8th placed team in the media more than ones that finished 10th or 9th?

I didnt see no, 'do they need nuclear change' crap spoken about port or norf or hawthorn...

8th and out is the poisoned chalace
3 coaches were sacked of the bottom 10. Clarko has a 5-year leave pass, Goodwin took Melbourne to a prelim last year, Longmire is rebuilding Sydney, plenty of pressure on Hinkley, plenty of pressure on Pike. More pressure will come on Dew next year.

Woosha is not being singled out.
 

BrunoV

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Matty Lloyd big on Solomon? Problem is neither have coached a team in own right?

So many questions? Who's got their hands on exit interviews, recruitment, who's in charge match day? Was Rutten making the calls from coaches box this year when woosh went to bench? Who's addressing the players? Who fronts the media? Who's responsible for what?

They need to announce it otherwise if we have another poor pre season the media will come hunting like a pack of hungry wolves. Testing times.

Worfold to be the figure head. Use his experience to talk to the media and fans.
 

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Fin ice Smuggler

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Worfold to be the figure head. Use his experience to talk to the media and fans.
okay but who's reporting to whom? Its been a Major flaw of ours with Woosh at the helm, so much so they sacked Neeld which then created a circuit breaker for us to play like a top 4 side, unfortunately our poor start to the year cost us.

We are now adding what we have subtracted so issues are still gong to arise and Woosh as displayed in bulldogs match doesnt provide direction to the players.

They better sort it out soon otherwise too many chiefs not enough indians results in disaster.
 

BrunoV

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okay but who's reporting to whom? Its been a Major flaw of ours with Woosh at the helm, so much so they sacked Neeld which then created a circuit breaker for us to play like a top 4 side, unfortunately our poor start to the year cost us.

We are now adding what we have subtracted so issues are still gong to arise and Woosh as displayed in bulldogs match doesnt provide direction to the players.

They better sort it out soon otherwise too many chiefs not enough indians results in disaster.

I was being sarcastic.

It is a fantasy that Rutten and Caracella are now the coaches.

If that was the case why not just announce a succession plan? There is literally nothing to lose.

Posters are rationalizing a horrendous decision based on hope. The hope that surely the club will not persist with this rubbish.

I mean, I thought we had a good list.

We can only take Worsfold at face value when he talks about building for a premiership and being in charge for 18 months.

I would have thought the results clearly speak for themselves.

There is no premiership brand which is why the only shot we fired against a good side was when Daniher's brilliance basically held us together on ANZAC day. There has been virtually no attempt to use the list to build that brand (with the only attempt, Clarke being dumped when it counted).

All of the decisions which are made indicate satisfaction with the game style.

The team is stacked with plodders and uncompettitive players.

The comments about Campbell's future being tied to Worsfold are almost certainly spot on.

I still need someone to explain the point of a head coach who needs assistants to coach the side for him.

Posters should always apply the level of scepticism that was being applied in response to the Supplements Saga. It's otherwise just being turned on and off as is expedient or least challenging.
 
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Bunk Moreland

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I highly doubt there’s a succession plan in place.

People forget the reason for a succession plan... somebody is leaving!

Do we have any indication whatsoever that Worsfold is leaving after 2020 of his own accord? That he thinks his time is up and doesn’t want to coach any more?

I don’t think so.

What, so you go to one of the most senior people in the club and say “your time is up, we’re bringing this bloke through to replace you, so you’ll mentor him then you’re gone...”

I don’t think he’d agree to that. If that were the case I reckon he’d have walked and been chasing one of the vacant jobs this year. I mean if he’s gone in 12 months anyway.
 

Bjchan13

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I highly doubt there’s a succession plan in place.

People forget the reason for a succession plan... somebody is leaving!

Do we have any indication whatsoever that Worsfold is leaving after 2020 of his own accord? That he thinks his time is up and doesn’t want to coach any more?

I don’t think so.

What, so you go to one of the most senior people in the club and say “your time is up, we’re bringing this bloke through to replace you, so you’ll mentor him then you’re gone...”

I don’t think he’d agree to that. If that were the case I reckon he’d have walked and been chasing one of the vacant jobs this year. I mean if he’s gone in 12 months anyway.
Seems plausible to me that he knows he wont be chasing another extension. Its common knowledge that Rutten has senior coaching aspirations. If, as you say, Woosh wants to keep coaching beyond 2020 as a senior coach then you're right, he probably would've walked and applied for another vacancy, especially freo. That to me says he's happy to finish with us after 2020, because there has been no talk from him or the club about an extension beyond that. Coaches dont have to be sacked to move on.
 

Bjchan13

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I was being sarcastic.

It is a fantasy that Rutten and Caracella are now the coaches.

If that was the case why not just announce a succession plan? There is literally nothing to lose.

Posters are rationalizing a horrendous decision based on hope. The hope that surely the club will not persist with this rubbish.

I mean, I thought we had a good list.

We can only take Worsfold at face value when he talks about building for a premiership and being in charge for 18 months.

I would have thought the results clearly speak for themselves.

There is no premiership brand which is why the only shot we fired against a good side was when Daniher's brilliance basically held us together on ANZAC day. There has been virtually no attempt to use the list to build that brand (with the only attempt, Clarke being dumped when it counted).

All of the decisions which are made indicate satisfaction with the game style.

The team is stacked with plodders and uncompettitive players.

The comments about Campbell's future being tied to Worsfold are almost certainly spot on.

I still need someone to explain the point of a head coach who needs assistants to coach the side for him.

Posters should always apply the level of scepticism that was being applied in response to the Supplements Saga. It's otherwise just being turned on and off as is expedient or least challenging.
There isnt necessarily anything to gain from announcing a succession plan. Didn't work at the pies. Did it work at Melbourne? Hard to say. Roos to Longmire was a really smooth transition. Was that announced?
 

BrunoV

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There isnt necessarily anything to gain from announcing a succession plan. Didn't work at the pies. Did it work at Melbourne? Hard to say. Roos to Longmire was a really smooth transition. Was that announced?

I dont know about that.

The Buckley Malthouse thing is unlike anything we are likely to see any time soon.

Melbourne and Sydney successions were smooth and well done.

There is no point creating cause for speculation.
 

Bunk Moreland

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Seems plausible to me that he knows he wont be chasing another extension. Its common knowledge that Rutten has senior coaching aspirations. If, as you say, Woosh wants to keep coaching beyond 2020 as a senior coach then you're right, he probably would've walked and applied for another vacancy, especially freo. That to me says he's happy to finish with us after 2020, because there has been no talk from him or the club about an extension beyond that. Coaches dont have to be sacked to move on.
It might be plausible, but what evidence do we have that he doesn’t want the job longer term? I’d say the longer the tenure the better for any coach as they see these things as long term projects.

Roos was a little different as basically as soon as they won 2005 flag he started saying he wasn’t a career coach and would be moving on at some point. He achieved what he wanted to at Sydney.

Particularly with so many jobs having been made available, I highly doubt it’s something Worsfold would sign on to. I reckon he’d walk... happy to sacrifice one year to hopefully be able to get a job elsewhere.

Not to mention it’s stupidity of the part of the club unless it’s an actual retirement and the coach doesn’t want to go on. You can’t tell the future. What if we have a ripping year next year and everything is looking awesome for 2021? We move on the coach and completely destroy our chances right in the middle of a premiership window, like Collingwood did in 2011?
 

Bunk Moreland

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I dont know about that.

The Buckley Malthouse thing is unlike anything we are likely to see any time soon.

Melbourne and Sydney successions were smooth and well done.

There is no point creating cause for speculation.
Malthouse was never on board with the “succession plan”, he was simply made a financial offer he couldn’t refuse. Eddie bought his signature. He got given a five year contract on huge money, the final three years of which were to be this undefined “Director” role. No coach would turn that down with their lack of job security and if we offered Worsfold that now he’d sign in a heartbeat.

We know Malthouse was never committed to it and when the time came and he knew he’d be able to get another job, he just walked.
 

ant555

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Malthouse was never on board with the “succession plan”, he was simply made a financial offer he couldn’t refuse. Eddie bought his signature. He got given a five year contract on huge money, the final three years of which were to be this undefined “Director” role. No coach would turn that down with their lack of job security and if we offered Worsfold that now he’d sign in a heartbeat.

We know Malthouse was never committed to it and when the time came and he knew he’d be able to get another job, he just walked.
The problem with the Collingwood plan was it was not what Mick signed up for. Bucks did not want Mick involved in talking to the players and staff and wanted him at arms length which was not the original deal.
 

Bjchan13

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I dont know about that.

The Buckley Malthouse thing is unlike anything we are likely to see any time soon.

Melbourne and Sydney successions were smooth and well done.

There is no point creating cause for speculation.
You're right, theres no point speculating. At the present Woosh is contracted for 2020 and will see that contract out. Whether he chases an extension or is happy to hand over to Rutten is just a guess. Malthouse to Buckley was a mess. Id hope we a more a roos to Longmire style of change.
 

ant555

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We will not have a succession plan as such. The thing is Worsfold will want to go back to Perth sooner rather than later and the club feels Rutten is close to being ready to coach. Worsfold will coach and to the media but he will allow Rutten to continue running the team defence and Caracella to run team offence with the line coaches doing what they do.
 

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