List Mgmt. Senior Coach: John Worsfold

Bombers36

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Jul 15, 2008
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Its his 4th year at the club and hes coached us for 77 games.
He's won only 31 of those 77 - thats a win % of just 40%..
Yes you can make some allowances because we had most of the senior squad missing for a year, but at the end of the day I'd hardly say Woosha is generating a hell of a lot of enthusiasm amongst the players or supporters, and its natural that people will keep asking questions about him. A loss to Carlton this week would only intensify speculation as to weather he is thew best man for the job right now.
I personally am starting to have some concerns about Woosha - hope I'm wrong and he can turn our fortunes around...
 

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HirdsTheWord

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Did i not post should have won against both those sides ?

Asking for patience is reasonable if you can see the deficiency in the side. Only those with bloated views of where the side is at get the ****s. Bringing in 4 really good players does not automatically make us top 4 when we have been a side that has little team defence in our DNA. It is rebuilding. Under their current coaches both Richmond and Collingwood went through 4 or 5 seasons to get towhere they are at now. Why are we expected to do so in 3 , notcounting the first year?
This is actually the first year we have had 8a seriouscoach to teach the team defence.

Asfor waitng 15 years for results, well the club sort of ****** that up by making a rash decison and allowing us to be Danked. Cannot blame the current coach for that. Before that they ****** things up by not having any senior support around Knights as a first time coach.
I don't blame woosha for the drugs saga, don't think anyone could?, though i do blame him for us getting consistently worse.

These are the facts.

We finished 8th in 2017.

We gave up draft picks and we brought in High profile recruits in Stringer, Saad & Smith for 2018.

We finished 11th in 2018.

We again gave up draft picks we brought in another High profile recruit in Sheil for 2019

We are currently 12th in 2019.

I see absolutely nothing across the entire club that shows me there is improvement on the horizon. Maybe i'm alone?
 

Shanghaistu

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May 8, 2018
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I don't blame woosha for the drugs saga, don't think anyone could?, though i do blame him for us getting consistently worse.

These are the facts.

We finished 8th in 2017.

We gave up draft picks and we brought in High profile recruits in Stringer, Saad & Smith for 2018.

We finished 11th in 2018.

We again gave up draft picks we brought in another High profile recruit in Sheil for 2019

We are currently 12th in 2019.

I see absolutely nothing across the entire club that shows me there is improvement on the horizon. Maybe i'm alone?
But...we are getting closer to playing the way we want to play...
 

sameolds33

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Feb 11, 2016
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Richmond have a woman named Emma Murray who specialises in mindfulness and high performance mind coaching. She also helps out at DJR and Scott McLaughlin has high praise for her being one of the main contributing factors to him piecing his championship win together.

She is charged as being the one who turned Jack Riewoldts career around from utter tossbag to potent player.

I've been banging on about us looking into this type of thing for ages now but unsure if its addressed by the club.
Paul Roos' wife also specialises in mindfulness and helped the MFC players when Roos was coaching. It makes a huge difference.
 

Mr Mojo Risin

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If people could see gradual improvement in addressing the deficiencies, then maybe you'd get some patience. Do you see gradual improvement, or just more of the same served up each week?
I without doubt see improvement in our defence and midfield defence this year.

I see improvements from a lot of players in our team defence and at least patchy effort where there used to be none from others to implement team defence.

We haven't really conceded big scores this year (forgetting the first game debacle (112) and the Melbourne game (112) we won). Including those games we have averaged 78.5 points against. Last year we averaged 83.5 points against.

My eye test tells me we are better at stopping precise opposition I50s but worse at:
a) Providing good forward line movement
b) Delivering it into our forward line
c) Keeping it in our forward line

This has a flow on effect of not having a lot of time for the defence and midfield to setup any forward press. Given this the midfield has been pretty good at still providing some pressure on opposition midfield to make it easier for our defenders to halve contests and rebound.

Some stats between this year so far and last year:

2019 so far

For:
1.47 points x 52.2 I50s, 11th in points scored, 10th for I50s.
5th for rebound 50s (41.6).

Against:
1.47 points x 53.4 I50s conceded, 8th in points scored against, 13th for I50s conceded.
10th for rebound 50s conceded (40.0).

We rebound the ball 77.9% of the time the opponent gets it inside 50 this year.
The opposition rebound the ball 76.6% of the time we get it in inside 50 this year.

2018

For:
1.65 points x 53.3 I50s, 9th in points scored, 8th for I50s.
8th for rebound 50s (36.8).

Against:
1.61 points x 51.7 I50s conceded, 11th for points scored against, 6th for I50s conceded.
8th for rebound 50s conceded (36.6).

We rebounded the ball 71.2% of the time the opponent got it inside 50 in 2018.
The opposition rebounded the ball 68.6% of the time we got it inside 50 in 2018.

Improvement in pressure on opposition entering into their forward 50:
  • Last year we would rebound 71.2% of the time the opposition entered into their forward line.
  • This year we rebound 77.9% of the time the opposition enter into their forward line.
The one that really stands out in difference is opposition rebound from our inside 50s:
  • Last year 68.6% of the time the opposition would rebound from our forward line.
  • This year 76.6% of the time the opposition rebounds from our forward line.
This has such a flow on effect and is the single biggest deficiency. I can forgive less scoring given injuries and personnel changes in our forward line but our lack of defensive pressure in our forward line across the board only requires effort, allowing some adjustment for poor I50 entry directly to marking opponents.

In summary I do see defensive improvements this year that are tangible for the future. I do think it will take a lot longer than any of us hoped for it to become habit. But I'm not sure another coach would fix that or just start again with something else that might take longer, but I do see improvement and am still prepared to back Woosha to see it through provided he is doing it with the right players for the future, not players who may have given their all and deserve respect but don't deserve senior selection anymore.

I do believe it will change quickly when the defensive movements (and when to transition between attack/defence and vice-versa) are habitual and we sort out our midfield stoppage defence beyond the 3m arc. I think we'll see a lot of our attacking weapons have more time and space because of getting the rest right. Then it might come down to injuries and continuity and that's a whole other matter.
 

Fin ice Smuggler

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I without doubt see improvement in our defence and midfield defence this year.

I see improvements from a lot of players in our team defence and at least patchy effort where there used to be none from others to implement team defence.

We haven't really conceded big scores this year (forgetting the first game debacle (112) and the Melbourne game (112) we won). Including those games we have averaged 78.5 points against. Last year we averaged 83.5 points against.

My eye test tells me we are better at stopping precise opposition I50s but worse at:
a) Providing good forward line movement
b) Delivering it into our forward line
c) Keeping it in our forward line

This has a flow on effect of not having a lot of time for the defence and midfield to setup any forward press. Given this the midfield has been pretty good at still providing some pressure on opposition midfield to make it easier for our defenders to halve contests and rebound.

Some stats between this year so far and last year:

2019 so far

For:
1.47 points x 52.2 I50s, 11th in points scored, 10th for I50s.
5th for rebound 50s (41.6).

Against:
1.47 points x 53.4 I50s conceded, 8th in points scored against, 13th for I50s conceded.
10th for rebound 50s conceded (40.0).

We rebound the ball 77.9% of the time the opponent gets it inside 50 this year.
The opposition rebound the ball 76.6% of the time we get it in inside 50 this year.

2018

For:
1.65 points x 53.3 I50s, 9th in points scored, 8th for I50s.
8th for rebound 50s (36.8).

Against:
1.61 points x 51.7 I50s conceded, 11th for points scored against, 6th for I50s conceded.
8th for rebound 50s conceded (36.6).

We rebounded the ball 71.2% of the time the opponent got it inside 50 in 2018.
The opposition rebounded the ball 68.6% of the time we got it inside 50 in 2018.

Improvement in pressure on opposition entering into their forward 50:
  • Last year we would rebound 71.2% of the time the opposition entered into their forward line.
  • This year we rebound 77.9% of the time the opposition enter into their forward line.
The one that really stands out in difference is opposition rebound from our inside 50s:
  • Last year 68.6% of the time the opposition would rebound from our forward line.
  • This year 76.6% of the time the opposition rebounds from our forward line.
This has such a flow on effect and is the single biggest deficiency. I can forgive less scoring given injuries and personnel changes in our forward line but our lack of defensive pressure in our forward line across the board only requires effort, allowing some adjustment for poor I50 entry directly to marking opponents.

In summary I do see defensive improvements this year that are tangible for the future. I do think it will take a lot longer than any of us hoped for it to become habit. But I'm not sure another coach would fix that or just start again with something else that might take longer, but I do see improvement and am still prepared to back Woosha to see it through provided he is doing it with the right players for the future, not players who may have given their all and deserve respect but don't deserve senior selection anymore.

I do believe it will change quickly when the defensive movements (and when to transition between attack/defence and vice-versa) are habitual and we sort out our midfield stoppage defence beyond the 3m arc. I think we'll see a lot of our attacking weapons have more time and space because of getting the rest right. Then it might come down to injuries and continuity and that's a whole other matter.
wow? can you at least back that point up with some stats?
 

Lore

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I think it's interesting that Worsfold didn't take credit for 2017. It would look better on him if he did claim it, since we made finals, but I guess with the suspended players came back, most were rusty, but they had a point to prove. He wasn't the one that got them suspended so I guess that's not got a lot to do with him. He did bring us Guy McKenna though and we had Jobe dishing it out of the midfield. Then a lot of unlikely results went our way in round 23, and we made the 8 with 12 wins and 106.5%, but only barely. Luck and circumstances outside of Worsfold's control for the most part, I suppose. But then what coach makes the 8 without a bit of luck and circumstances outside their control? But if we have to blame someone for making the eight that year, I guess you could blame ASADA. Kind of like repayment for missing out in 2013? I dunno. In 2013 I would've expected us to go better than get knocked out in the first week.

In 2018 we finished with 12 wins and 105.1% without Jobe and Guy McKenna, but basically the same overall result as 2017 once we got our arses into gear. To make the 8 that year would have required us to beat Geelong who had 13 wins and 130%, which is the highest percentage in a long time for 8th place. Perhaps not flogging Carlton that day was our greatest error, a win and 25% would have done it (lol we would have had to win it 539-70 to pass Geelong). Usually 12 wins is enough to make the eight if you have percentage (in the 18 team era), but not so in 2018.

This year the draw has given us what has turned out to be the top ranking teams in the league in the early part of the season. Perhaps we were always going to lose those games, but if we'd been able to pinch the close ones, we might have been one of those top ranking teams at the bye. If we'd done that the ridiculous expectations that were set in the preseason may have even been vindicated (for better or for worse). As it is we're sitting here 4-6 and wondering where we went wrong, with literally ever aspect of the club under the microscope.

The part that I do think is especially on the head coach and game day senior assistants (or whatever they are, Rutten and Harding) though is the way we've responded to the runners being removed from the field, the changes to the 6-6-6 and the kick out particularly.

As far as close games go, early analysis of the 6-6-6 is showing that a disproportionately large number of results this year have been close games compared to previous years. Some analysts are finding that the 6-6-6 is preventing coaching and structures from forming until after the first minute that play resumes, which means a good clearing midfield has the ability to bring their team back into the game really quickly if they convert before (for example) the loose man in defence gets to D50. (edit: another podcast about the rule changes supported by Champion Data and feat. Brendon Goddard)

It's probably what keeps us in it some days, other days it's the reason we lose. I don't think close games because of stupid rules that make both teams' midfields look second rate is really what we want as spectators though. But regardless, that's the challenge that has been set for the coaches.
 
Last edited:

Lore

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Originally wrote this into the post above but it seems to be more of it's own thing...


I'm not sold on the idea that Worsfold has broadranging control of every aspect of the club he comes into contact with. He certainly seems to have some input into the recruiting of players, and we've cleared out a heap of players in recent times, there are only 16 left on our list from before the 2015 draft/trade period. But outside of that a lot of the other appointments at the club seem to have the fingerprints of Richardson, Campbell and potentially the board all over them.

Maybe other head coaches do have that control (such as Clarkson at Hawthorn), but Essendon is a bit of an odd one in terms of how the hierarchies at the club seem to work, both before and after Knights, and before and after Hird. Worsfold has come in as an experienced coach, I think Harding came with him from Adelaide and McKenna from West Coast, but McKenna left to join Cricket Australia, Nield was made redundant which didn't seem to impress Worsfold much, and the other new hire during Worsfold's tenure seems to have been instigated by Richardson.

Individually, those recruitments aren't necessarily bad decisions, from the outside we have applauded them. But is the whole really the sum of the parts? Is it driving together toward the same goal? I'm not sure. Perhaps we have more in common with the Milwaukee flag at this point (designed by a committee in 1954):

milwaukee-flag.jpg


The hierarchy at Essendon seems to be just as much of a mess as it has been for many years.

I think we're in a very interesting position at the moment. Are we underperforming? Will we look back at the end of the year and be talking about Round 1? Or Round 8? Or the Carlton game this weekend? Or the injuries... the GM football, the assistants? Heaven forbid the constitutional red sash comes under question, perhaps a new jumper really would make all the difference :p

I don't know how much of it is on John, but I think putting all of the blame on Worsfold with the idea that a new coach would fix everything takes far too much pressure off everyone else who is underperforming at the club. I don't think we've had an environment at Essendon that's gotten the best out of our coach and playing group for a long time.
 

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Shane Heard

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On top of that Tiger fans wanted Dimma out and Pies fans cried for 3 seasons tosack Bucks.
Yes exactly right ant. It doesn’t always turn out to be all unicorns and rainbows every time with premierships and eventually clubs sack coaches when it’s clear things can’t progress. Like norf and Scott.

It’s quite obvious the EFC people who employed JW have faith in what ever the hell hes doing there.

Changing coaches and an entire new football dept with a new program wouldn’t be in the best interests of the playing group after all they have been through in the last 4 years.

It’s frustrating for us fans but once again I’ve found better things to do than dwell on our form.

I just watch the game with bemused interest now. Keep the heart rate at a low level 👌
 

Shane Heard

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I agree about the players but Worsfold is responsible for giving the players so much leash. Whilst the first 2 years he had his hands tied behind his back for obvious reasons I don't see players sprouting from underneath that play tough, hard aggressive footy which he and the recruiting staff have to take responsibility for.

He along with the selection panel also aren't making wholesale changes to the side week in week out to insert aggressive players or players that stand up in adversity, they aren't selecting the kids over veterans such as Myers, Baguley or even last year against port Leunberger over Draper.

Worsfold did a marvelous job as far as stabilisation for the club and providing hope. But its a bit like Barrassi to Swans, Roos to Dees, McCartney to Bulldogs. They've done their role and the club needs someone else to add the next layer towards continual success.
Yes, good points.

It’s frustrating for sure.
 

yodellinhank

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I without doubt see improvement in our defence and midfield defence this year.

I see improvements from a lot of players in our team defence and at least patchy effort where there used to be none from others to implement team defence.

We haven't really conceded big scores this year (forgetting the first game debacle (112) and the Melbourne game (112) we won). Including those games we have averaged 78.5 points against. Last year we averaged 83.5 points against.

My eye test tells me we are better at stopping precise opposition I50s but worse at:
a) Providing good forward line movement
b) Delivering it into our forward line
c) Keeping it in our forward line

This has a flow on effect of not having a lot of time for the defence and midfield to setup any forward press. Given this the midfield has been pretty good at still providing some pressure on opposition midfield to make it easier for our defenders to halve contests and rebound.

Some stats between this year so far and last year:

2019 so far

For:
1.47 points x 52.2 I50s, 11th in points scored, 10th for I50s.
5th for rebound 50s (41.6).

Against:
1.47 points x 53.4 I50s conceded, 8th in points scored against, 13th for I50s conceded.
10th for rebound 50s conceded (40.0).

We rebound the ball 77.9% of the time the opponent gets it inside 50 this year.
The opposition rebound the ball 76.6% of the time we get it in inside 50 this year.

2018

For:
1.65 points x 53.3 I50s, 9th in points scored, 8th for I50s.
8th for rebound 50s (36.8).

Against:
1.61 points x 51.7 I50s conceded, 11th for points scored against, 6th for I50s conceded.
8th for rebound 50s conceded (36.6).

We rebounded the ball 71.2% of the time the opponent got it inside 50 in 2018.
The opposition rebounded the ball 68.6% of the time we got it inside 50 in 2018.

Improvement in pressure on opposition entering into their forward 50:
  • Last year we would rebound 71.2% of the time the opposition entered into their forward line.
  • This year we rebound 77.9% of the time the opposition enter into their forward line.
The one that really stands out in difference is opposition rebound from our inside 50s:
  • Last year 68.6% of the time the opposition would rebound from our forward line.
  • This year 76.6% of the time the opposition rebounds from our forward line.
This has such a flow on effect and is the single biggest deficiency. I can forgive less scoring given injuries and personnel changes in our forward line but our lack of defensive pressure in our forward line across the board only requires effort, allowing some adjustment for poor I50 entry directly to marking opponents.

In summary I do see defensive improvements this year that are tangible for the future. I do think it will take a lot longer than any of us hoped for it to become habit. But I'm not sure another coach would fix that or just start again with something else that might take longer, but I do see improvement and am still prepared to back Woosha to see it through provided he is doing it with the right players for the future, not players who may have given their all and deserve respect but don't deserve senior selection anymore.

I do believe it will change quickly when the defensive movements (and when to transition between attack/defence and vice-versa) are habitual and we sort out our midfield stoppage defence beyond the 3m arc. I think we'll see a lot of our attacking weapons have more time and space because of getting the rest right. Then it might come down to injuries and continuity and that's a whole other matter.
Although I didn't get to see the match, I liked the Brisbane game. It's the only game I thought we showed an ability to press and force turnovers in our half of the ground as well as fall back and halt momentum in times things were going against us.

You point out that we are defending in our own back half and (damningly IMO) d50 far more often than not. You put it down to forward pressure, but it could be an indicator that the team defense isn't working and we are falling back deeper as a result.

The eye test is telling me that our players get sucked in to chasing the footy instead of making good position. The result means it's easier for mids and half forwards to fall back into our own half and slow/stop a score. That doesn't constitute a good team defence because it doesn't help us turn it over or transition into attack. It also makes forward pressure nigh on impossible, when there is miles of space for the opposition to move the ball around in.
 

Mr Mojo Risin

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Although I didn't get to see the match, I liked the Brisbane game. It's the only game I thought we showed an ability to press and force turnovers in our half of the ground as well as fall back and halt momentum in times things were going against us.

You point out that we are defending in our own back half and (damningly IMO) d50 far more often than not. You put it down to forward pressure, but it could be an indicator that the team defense isn't working and we are falling back deeper as a result.

The eye test is telling me that our players get sucked in to chasing the footy instead of making good position. The result means it's easier for mids and half forwards to fall back into our own half and slow/stop a score. That doesn't constitute a good team defence because it doesn't help us turn it over or transition into attack. It also makes forward pressure nigh on impossible, when there is miles of space for the opposition to move the ball around in.
I guess my point is our team defence doesn't stand much of a chance at setting up because of our lack of forward press. Additionally our ground setup at stoppages (which I did mention at the end of the post but didn't go into detail as I believe that's been covered a lot in this thread) outside the 3m arc is poor. No doubt both should be the main focus. I do believe we have got better at working harder through the midfield despite these deficiencies to ensure the opposition inside 50s are not as clean as they used to be...one step forward I guess.
 

ant555

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If people could see gradual improvement in addressing the deficiencies, then maybe you'd get some patience. Do you see gradual improvement, or just more of the same served up each week?
Have seen a bit in some games but not across 4 quarters . There has been quarters when we have done well but also a lot of weeks where we have had one or two poor quarters. IMO it is just as big of a player issue as it is head coach. He has worked hard to provide them with a coach who can provide them the tools they need.
I have nevergone away from the fact that the coach has to sell the message so he is under pressure to do that but I will not cop that we are a top 4 side and another coach will just fix the problem and sell the message straight away.
We have very poor leadership depth and have no history in wanting to play a role across the side.
Having also done a little work with another club I look at our list in a different light with some insights from their perspective. I really do think it can take more than 1 season to adapt to a new system. Right now we are in season 2 of Worsfolds team defence and season 1 of Rutten working with them. It will take a bit more turnover of personal on field.

One issue the coach has no control over is simple turnovers. Right now we are the worst in the league. It has cost us us at least 3 wins, Saints , Collingwood and Sydney. We have given up too many soft turnovers in the back half from poor skills. We are also a poor contested marking side so when we are forced to kick down the line the ball comes back the other way quite a lot and we have no chance tocontrol the game.

Right now I see it as 90% player and 10% coach.
 

ant555

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I don't blame woosha for the drugs saga, don't think anyone could?, though i do blame him for us getting consistently worse.

These are the facts.

We finished 8th in 2017.

We gave up draft picks and we brought in High profile recruits in Stringer, Saad & Smith for 2018.

We finished 11th in 2018.

We again gave up draft picks we brought in another High profile recruit in Sheil for 2019

We are currently 12th in 2019.

I see absolutely nothing across the entire club that shows me there is improvement on the horizon. Maybe i'm alone?

Read the Shiel article . It is not simply about bringing in players.

Also last year we won the same amount of games as 2017 but it was an odd year. 90% of the time 12 wins gets you in. On top of that in 2017 we had Daniher kicking 60 goals and Raz kicking 40. Stringer was ment tocome inand comliment them and not having to replace either as the main man. He was the bloke to allow Hooker to play back. We dot have the depth to cover 100 goals and Joes marking ability when he was at his best. We are not a side that can cover a number of injuries to key players. That is why we have traded for some.
This year we also have our best and fairest winner out now and not being close to his best. The whole KPF bunch injured at one stage and a few players like Walla and McKenna down on form. There are real reasons for where we are at now.
Personally I have said for a while That we are average and until some leaders change the way we play we will remain average.
 

cAsEy_18

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Read the Shiel article . It is not simply about bringing in players.

Also last year we won the same amount of games as 2017 but it was an odd year. 90% of the time 12 wins gets you in. On top of that in 2017 we had Daniher kicking 60 goals and Raz kicking 40. Stringer was ment tocome inand comliment them and not having to replace either as the main man. He was the bloke to allow Hooker to play back. We dot have the depth to cover 100 goals and Joes marking ability when he was at his best. We are not a side that can cover a number of injuries to key players. That is why we have traded for some.
This year we also have our best and fairest winner out now and not being close to his best. The whole KPF bunch injured at one stage and a few players like Walla and McKenna down on form. There are real reasons for where we are at now.
Personally I have said for a while That we are average and until some leaders change the way we play we will remain average.
What’d you think of the Shiel article out of interest?
While it didn’t go into a lot of specifics, I agreed with most of it.
 

Lore

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If Ross Lyon was avaible I wouldn't be against getting him did take both Saints and Fremantle to a GF so he must be doing something right.
Ross Lyon is committed to Fremantle.


What do you think a new coach will achieve at Essendon? What are your expectations?
 
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