List Mgmt. Senior Coach: John Worsfold

Shanghaistu

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Yep this unfortunately
I've had a nagging suspicion for a while that the club won't truly be able to move forward until all involved in the saga have moved on. We'd all love for the suspended players still here to win a flag but maybe that's just not a realistic expectation.
I also agree, as much I wish it was otherwise. We just don’t know the residual effect of that ‘gift that keeps on giving’ but I’m sure it still limits us in terms of how we can deal with our players and how we have to behave in the spotlight and maintain the cuddly inclusive image
 

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Of course he is. But at least he’s given us some sort of reasoning about how they’ve got to that number. Seemed pretty arbitrary the first time I heard it.
More specifically, what I meant to say was that, what I find silly re the "18 months at the helm" garbage, is that it dismisses the one time we made finals in 2017. Just unnecessarily burning credibility.
 

Mr Mojo Risin

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More specifically, what I meant to say was that, what I find silly re the "18 months at the helm" garbage, is that it dismisses the one time we made finals in 2017. Just unnecessarily burning credibility.
See I get where they're coming from and have no problem thinking it's a reasonable position to take.

Finals in 2017 came from about the same amount of wins we had in 2018 we were just luckier with the teams around us.

We also had Joe all year in Crichton form, Raz for 20 games, Jobe still providing a decent amount of grunt, Goddard in great form, Kelly in great form with a cool head down back. Merrett and Hurley in AA form. Marty Party in great form and Zaharakis in great form.

We've had a bunch of list changes and new players come in and let's not forget that despite making finals, we were smashed because our game style did not stand up to finals football because we leaked like a sieve.

New players and new game styles in 2018-19 to fix this plus key players retiring, declining or riddled with injuries.

Should we keep Worsfold? No idea, but I'd be looking at fitness and conditioning and assistant coaches (aside from Kelly and Rutten) before him.

Regardless of that I do get the 18 month build argument.
 

ant555

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Worsfold was fine tonight. Had the boys up and about and made the right moves when needed.

Not his fault Parish handballed when 20 metres out right in front or that Begley missed from 10 metres out right in front.
Or the fact Zack Merritt missed so many easy targets going forward or even the fact we struggle to hit handball targets. Watching the game and seeing how GWS kept hitting targets by hand highlighted how good we could be if our skill levels where not sub standard at various stages.
 

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ant555

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See I get where they're coming from and have no problem thinking it's a reasonable position to take.

Finals in 2017 came from about the same amount of wins we had in 2018 we were just luckier with the teams around us.

We also had Joe all year in Crichton form, Raz for 20 games, Jobe still providing a decent amount of grunt, Goddard in great form, Kelly in great form with a cool head down back. Merrett and Hurley in AA form. Marty Party in great form and Zaharakis in great form.

We've had a bunch of list changes and new players come in and let's not forget that despite making finals, we were smashed because our game style did not stand up to finals football because we leaked like a sieve.

New players and new game styles in 2018-19 to fix this plus key players retiring, declining or riddled with injuries.

Should we keep Worsfold? No idea, but I'd be looking at fitness and conditioning and assistant coaches (aside from Kelly and Rutten) before him.

Regardless of that I do get the 18 month build argument.
I agree.

There has been a lot of change in personal and the style they want to play since 2017 which was in some ways a final tour for a number of players.
Like you I have no real idea either way about Woosha being the man to takes us to the next step but there are some things to take into account.

The defensive game is taking shape. We have some midfield / forward lapses at time but the back 6 have been massive most weeks and last night the team defence was generally good.

On the flip side we have no plan B but it is not because the coach has no plan B but more because of us being a poor marking side forward of the ball and the poor skill level at times . Often when we try to slow the game we have a terrible turnover by foot that turns all the good work into dust. Or we go streaming forward only to miss a handball target or not be able to kick the ball to the advantage of out forwards.

I have to say plan B is often over rated. Good sides simply play their roles and get plan A done more times than not. Poor sides turn the footy over and can not able to play plan A. Our main game can be shut down but what happens next is not a lack of plan B but more the fact we do not have a strong get out of jail marking target down the line or the fact our work rate can be a bit flat and we have to kick to one on one targets.

The level that Shiel has played at has also been an issue. His skill level has not been up to what it has been in the past and to be a bit blunt he is not giving us what we needed from him because of it despite him being very good at times.

While we are talking changes maybe Hooker and Hurley need to be drafted back into the leadership group with Razz and Joe dropped out. Injury and poor form from both have had a massive impact in the last 2 seasons.
 

Mr Mojo Risin

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I agree.

There has been a lot of change in personal and the style they want to play since 2017 which was in some ways a final tour for a number of players.
Like you I have no real idea either way about Woosha being the man to takes us to the next step but there are some things to take into account.

The defensive game is taking shape. We have some midfield / forward lapses at time but the back 6 have been massive most weeks and last night the team defence was generally good.

On the flip side we have no plan B but it is not because the coach has no plan B but more because of us being a poor marking side forward of the ball and the poor skill level at times . Often when we try to slow the game we have a terrible turnover by foot that turns all the good work into dust. Or we go streaming forward only to miss a handball target or not be able to kick the ball to the advantage of out forwards.

I have to say plan B is often over rated. Good sides simply play their roles and get plan A done more times than not. Poor sides turn the footy over and can not able to play plan A. Our main game can be shut down but what happens next is not a lack of plan B but more the fact we do not have a strong get out of jail marking target down the line or the fact our work rate can be a bit flat and we have to kick to one on one targets.

The level that Shiel has played at has also been an issue. His skill level has not been up to what it has been in the past and to be a bit blunt he is not giving us what we needed from him because of it despite him being very good at times.

While we are talking changes maybe Hooker and Hurley need to be drafted back into the leadership group with Razz and Joe dropped out. Injury and poor form from both have had a massive impact in the last 2 seasons.
Could not agree more.
 

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Just came across this, it's from about a year ago. I might've posted it back then too but I don't remember so :shrug:


I started listening at about the 1 hour mark and caught the end of them discussing his role at Adelaide when Phil Walsh passed away. Was interesting hearing him talk about the Adelaide/West Coast game and how the club supported the players, how he felt he should also be supporting the West Coast players because Woosha and Walsh had coached together at West Coast only a couple of years earlier and they all knew Walsh too. When West Coast won no one was cheering or anything, it was just like thank god that's games over, it's so much bigger than just the result, it's the mateship that this game is all about, the camaraderie.

After a couple of minutes of that the conversation turns to when he started at Essendon, how the board described the job to him in the interview, his approach to joining the club and getting to know the hierarchy of the club and the players and whatever at the start of pre-season. Then right after the Christmas break, he'd been there 6 weeks and then the suspensions were handed down. What the atmosphere was like on that day, nervous but bubbly, their expectations were basically that it would be dismissed and then it would all be over. (I think at the time worst case scenario was maybe a couple of months off). And then how his role changed as a result, basically full mourning, and how we had to get back on the horse, back to training, trying to support the suspended guys and recruit top-ups. The experience for Woosha coming in after that and having to help the group to get through it was much like the experience with Adelaide. He was spending his day off meeting up with the suspended guys 1 on 1, not allowed to talk footy and not allowed to meet them together as a group.

When he was applying for the job he thought we had a pretty handy list, we had Hibberd etc at the time. Then in 2017 (Hibberd and Melksham had left, Stewart and Green joined the club, and we went to the draft and got McGrath). The effort of getting those guys back and fit enough to play a whole season, the first game of the year was huge, against Hawthorn, big walk to the 'G, won it, was like a grand final, but had to back it up and play the next week. Having to rest guys, hang in there, later in the year getting injuries, physically and mentally managing them through the end of the year. Limped to the end, nothing left in the tank, but qualified for finals and it was absolutely massive emotionally, they did it, they got back after those suspensions and there they were, they made finals. Got thrashed by a great team in Sydney up in Sydney, no shame though massively proud to have got there, just making the finals with that group of players after the suspensions and everything they'd been through. It ticked a big box for everyone.

It also raised the expectations for 2018. Lost Watson, Stanton, Howlett, Hocking, good clubmen, senior players, but recruited well and started building a new group (Three Ss. Yesss). Hadn't played that well early but still finding out about each other, exploring what they had. He describes it as very similar to those years, early days at West Coast, when the choice was between playing Trent Carroll or Darren Glass, and trying to figure out which one was going to make it. You look in hindsight and you go 'it must have been obvious' but Glass was a gangly 19 year old was beaten for strength, couldn't kick, is this kid going to make it? You're exploring and looking at how he blends and what his leadership values are and so we're doing a bit of that this year, we've got a fair idea about where the group is going but we still need to find out about some of the younger players and who is going to help Essendon win it's next premiership?

So it looks like this "2017 doesn't really count" thing was already the mentality at the club last year.

At the end of 2017 we had retirements, but also some delistings. In total we lost Watson, Kelly, Howlett, Stanton, Hocking, Bird, Morgan and Eades. We took Goddard, Green, Colyer, Leuenberger and J.Merrett into 2018, but they've since retired or been delisted. Lavender also retired over the last pre-season.

If what we were doing in 2018 was all about figuring out who is going to make it and what would take us to our next premiership, I guess the question is are we still doing that? Do we know now which of those younger players are going to make it? We also have more young players to consider and how they will develop, whether they will fit in the team...

If we don't know yet, which is reasonable since you have to let them develop before you can really judge them, then I guess all of these injuries would at least provide some opportunities at AFL level for those who are ready to take them.
 

Bunk Moreland

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Yeah not buying this “2018 was a new era” for a second. This side has its roots in 2016, which was obviously a write-off in itself but a good year for others such as Fanta, Walla and Parish.

The older guys who came back for 2017 but probably weren’t long term prospects (Watson, Hocking, Stanton, Howlett etc)... none of them played a major role in 2017 and weren’t big losses for 2018, to the point where you’d say we’d turned the list over or something.

It’s spin. 2018 was a major failure for the club. We put in place a disastrous coaching setup which, basically, destroyed the season. By the time they put it right the year was gone. 2019 hasn’t been much better.
 

citizen-erased

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Woosha on 360 next Monday, that should be.... Interesting...
At the presser, spoke of building for the ultimate success in the long term vs. the short term being a good team

Intrigued i must say.

How far off is the ultimate prize in this plan
Who is part of it, and who isn't.
It would be a shame for Hooker and Hurley to finish their careers without some finals success and a period where we sustain some good form.
 

ant555

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I will throw this out there for what it is worth. Had a couple of conversations during the week which the topic was the coach. First one was from someone who has some contacts within the club who said Worsfold will be gone at the end of the year regardless. May want to head home as his family is already back in Perth.

From a different source who is very reliable I got there will be 2 more coaching changes at the end of the season. Would not name clubs but he has been 90% on the money as far as info I have gained from him in the past. Would be thinking it is the Saints and us.

As a side note Sam McClure on SEN the other morning put his neck right out saying Brad Scott will be coaching next season. Hope it is not us.
 

ant555

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At the presser, spoke of building for the ultimate success in the long term vs. the short term being a good team

Intrigued i must say.

How far off is the ultimate prize in this plan
Who is part of it, and who isn't.
It would be a shame for Hooker and Hurley to finish their careers without some finals success and a period where we sustain some good form.
I understand this completely. Lets face it the good sides in recent years have all been sides where players will play a role and the team defence has been pretty good. On the other hand we have continually played a more selfish brand where players tended to do their own thing and have pretty much been flat track bullies . We win on our terms and look exciting but when it comes to the hard yards we fall short.
We have been drifting along like this for over 10 years.
Worsfold may not be able to lead us to the ultimate success but he knows that what we have produced in the last 10 years or so is not what will win in the last 3 weeks of the season.
We still rely on our big names to have good games to mask the fact we have no lack the role playing system based players. When they get shut down we struggle.
 
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