"September Sinkers"

[OzSparrow]

Agreed

It will take time but also a change in attitude. I have posted this elsewhere, but look at the list of the players Geelong got rid of over the last 1-6 years: Clint Bizzell, Charlie Gardiner, Henry Playfair, Tim Callan, Paul Chambers, David Clarke, Steven King, Kent Kingsley, Matthew McCarthy, Brent Moloney, James Rahilly, David Spriggs, Peter Street. All average-to-fair, handy-to-decent players that have made way while Thompson has pieced together his line up.

None of these guys were on the verge of retiring. None of them VFL players who had never cracked it for an AFL game. All had plenty of footy left in them. The Cats simply decided that they just weren't good enough and made the tough call.

Our "aggressive list management" that we have been spruiking has so far just been words, basically amounting to Torney and Hart, delisted one season before most thought they would be. Other than that I can only come up with Chris Ladhams and Hayden Skipworth as players we have made a tough call on. That's it.

Mick Malthouse's comments after the game made for an interesting comparison. Malthouse: "Our player group know without a shadow of a doubt they are comprehensively assessed by me on the way they perform in finals. I have seen some terrific players not handle the occasion. Really, those players are better off moving out and finding another club."

Now, is the AFC prepared to make such a brutal assessment of its own playing group? Or do the solid, reliable performances from Rounds 1-22 overshadow a finals failing?

I still insist that Marty Mattner was a huge loss for us and was due primarily to Craigy not knowing how or where to play him. Look at how well he has performed in the Swans this year in a lineup that plays a similar brand of footy to ours. Big mistake to cut him IMHO!

Hudson and Welsh were also big losses (just look at how they have bolstered the Scraggers this year). We have always been screaming for a headline forward target and to cut Scotty (our leading goalkicker) was another blunder (plus we got bugger all for both of them in return).

We have not had a headline forward act since Modra (and the embarrassing selection of Carey) and we continue to piece together makeshift forwards (Stevo take a bow) and now have Goody and Macca and Tyson making cameo performances up front like Roo did at the end of his career.

Our midfield has always been a strength for us but was utterly smashed on the weekend and, with a non-existent forward line, we were always going to put our normally rock-solid defence under immense pressure.

I will be very interested to see what NC does at the trade table to try to create a headline marquee forward line for us next year (look at Buddy/Fev/Pavlich/Mooney/Hall/Riewoldt/Brown etc). Failure to do anything else will mean that we will continue to make up the numbers in September.

This off-season trading is VITAL for the AFC to stem the arterial bleeding that has been there for at least the last 2 years.

 

[Vince Van Mackay]

The hard calls need to be made old players that deserve to play on need to be given the chop.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Did he win them? No.

Good point.

Mick Malthouse at Collingwood = Danny Frawley at Richmond

Zero premierships each which means that both are equally good coaches.

 

[King Elvis]

Our "aggressive list management" that we have been spruiking has so far just been words, basically amounting to Torney and Hart, delisted one season before most thought they would be. Other than that I can only come up with Chris Ladhams and Hayden Skipworth as players we have made a tough call on. That's it.

I said it at the time, and I stand by it, that citing Hart/Torney as examples of aggressive list management is smoke and mirrors.

Two guys were told they were finished when they both had a year left to go - that's not making the hard decisions.

That's making an easy decision that appears hard, and using that to prove that you're willing to make the hard decisions.

McGregor, as much as I love him, was a hard decision last year - and we took the soft option.

 

[-CG-]

McGregor, as much as I love him, was a hard decision last year - and we took the soft option.

Tell me about it, that one frustrates me!

Imagine if he didn't get the chop this year...

 

[Macca19]

Now, is the AFC prepared to make such a brutal assessment of its own playing group? Or do the solid, reliable performances from Rounds 1-22 overshadow a finals failing?

So who do you think the Crows should move on?

 

[Cap]

Two Grand Finals for starters.

He fell at the final hurdle twice.....

 

[RoosterLad]

I doubt Craig will even get us that far.

 

[WALL-e]

So who do you think the Crows should move on?

Retired:

Biglands
Bassett
Goodwin (I think the back will only slow him more next year)

Delist: Trade if possible
Campbell
Jericho
McGregor
Shirley
Massie
Gallman

 

[Alex99]

Goodwin (I think the back will only slow him more next year)

It wasn’t the back but.....wasn’t it the driver (or the quad) muscle in the front of his kicking leg? He back was giving him trouble early but it fixed itself after his weeks rest.

If that was back related, i apologize.

 

[footy4ever]

Stop being so soft. Just because Rucci writes a negative story about the Crows doesn't mean you should have a sook about it. The fact is, he's right.

Yet again we lose another Final and changes need to be made somewhere.

maccasno1 is right about Craig's contract....

Oh OK.... e-hem

Not for once did I say I disagreed with yon laureate. I'm pointing out my pet hate with this T#ss&r.

The great man will state something himself and then in the near future, will bring it up again, and make like it was invented somewhere else so that he can give himself license to run with the same theme over and over again.

Indeed Crows have been SH!te come finals....but why? Not because they 'sink' or choke...it's because they play better teams with better players.

It aint rocket science... and losses of this nature never need the pedantic dissecting and royal commission they inevitably receive.

Hope that clears it up for you guys.

 

[macca23]

It wasn’t the back but.....wasn’t it the driver (or the quad) muscle in the front of his kicking leg? He back was giving him trouble early but it fixed itself after his weeks rest.

If that was back related, i apologize.

Goody said it was an adductor strain.

 

[Alex99]

Goody said it was an adductor strain.

Yeah that's what i meant....is that not the same? sorry if it's not.

 

[WALL-e]

It wasn’t the back but.....wasn’t it the driver (or the quad) muscle in the front of his kicking leg? He back was giving him trouble early but it fixed itself after his weeks rest.

If that was back related, i apologize.

He had a couple of niggles and injuries I think. I was pretty sure he had back problems but not 100%.

I just think that we saw a massive decline in his body this year.

Players with his body type, like Roo, just fall over the hill so quick.

 

[Alex99]

He had a couple of niggles and injuries I think. I was pretty sure he had back problems but not 100%.

I just think that we saw a massive decline in his body this year.

Players with his body type, like Roo, just fall over the hill so quick.

He certainly did have a back injury early in the season and his body did let him down but from my perspective they are not career threatening. You may be right and he may go one year to many but i will give the club the benefit of the doubt if they give him one more year. IMO he deserves that much.

 

[Vince Van Mackay]

If his body is right he could go another year, but Goodwin should not be Captain, can't afford to have a injured Captain out of the side, or an injured Captain in the side, wasn't good this year, wasn't good last year.

 

[PAFC_1]

Absolutely right, in 2007 we fell into the finals, this year we were well and truely in it, yet have gained nothing, the 'boys club' need to sort it out over the off season, as I posted somehwere else , extending NC contract IMO was a big mistake.

Despite Neil obviously being clearly the best man for the job in Adelaide atm, I agree, extending a contract halfway through without any results to back it up is rediculous.

Neil has already declared he won't coach anywhere else, so there is no worry of him being poached.

Make him fight tooth and nail for it.

 

[jenny61_99]

I think it's fair to be critical of Craig at times and perhaps even after this game, but we also should acknowledge the fact that he HAS made positive changes to his match-day coaching this year. Many in here have commented that he is making moves and being a little more creative with his match-ups. So he's ironed out those little problems, he now needs to assess what happens in September. He is such a perfectionist I have no doubt he will be a harsher critic of himself than any of us could ever be.

Of our current list (excluding Bassett and Biglands who have retired), we have only 3 players over 200 games, 9 players with between 100-200 games (Incl. Burton on long term injury list), 5 players 50+ games (incl. Hentschel), 11 players 10-50 games, and 12 players with less than 10 games.

Of the three senior players, I would expect Goodwin to retire. Of our 9 players between 100-200 games, Burton is on the long term injury list, we could expect to lose McGregor and possibly one of Massie and Shirley (IMO Doughty is safe). That leaves 6 players with this level of experience for next year. Of the 5 players with >50 games, only Hentschel would be in doubt, but it appears he will be offered one more year to see how he comes up. Of our 11 players between 10-50 games, only Jericho would be a certainty to be delisted. Of our least experienced players, Campbell appears to be in doubt (according to many in here) as does Gallman. Including the retirements of Bassett and Biglands, we will lose 850+ games of experience. With 7 new players brought in, we will have the following breakdown:

2 >300
6 + Burton >100
5 >50
10 - 10-50
17 < 10

The bonus for us will be in the fact that players like Vince (31), Symes (36), Porps (44), Maric (30), Knights (50), Douglas (38) and Mackay (19) all look to be capable of very good footy who have now had another year of footy under their belts. Add to that the class and experience of Edwards, McLeod, Bock, Doughty, Johncock, Reilly, Rutten, Shirley/Massie, Stevens, VB and Thompson, and we have a pretty good nucleus of a team. Then we'll watch with anticipation the development of Tippett, Moran, Walker, Dangerfield, Griffin, Otten, Petrenko, Sellar, Armstrong, Jacky, Cook, Kite, Gill and the new draft selections.

I expect next year will be similar to this one, where we will have inconsistent form but still be there and there abouts come September.

In contrast look at Geelong:

Ablett Jr, (144) Bartel (131), Chapman (154), Corey (174), Enright (148), Harley (182), Hunt (120), Johnson (110), Kelly (127), Ling (180), Milburn (233), Mooney (166), Ottens (202), Rooke (110), Scarlett (204), Wojcinski (131), Mackie (80).

And Hawthorn:

Bateman (115), Brown (119), Campbell (100), Crawford (303), Croad (220), Dew (193), Guerra (154), Hodge (130), Jacobs (126), Mitchell (131), Williams (96), Sewell (83), Roughhead (81), Osborne (97), Lewis (81), Ladson (97), Clarke (96)

And Sydney:

Ablett ((119), Barry (233), Becan (88), Bolton,C (173), Bolton, J (210), Buchanan (107), Crouch (208), Davis (168), Everitt (290), Fosdike (164), Goodes (229), Hall (238), Jolly (143), Kenelly (157), Kirk (194), Mathews (198), Mattner (121), McVeigh (104), O'Keefe (163), O'Loughlin (286), Richards (102), Robert-Thomson (97)

It looks like we are a ways away from achieving those sort of #'s with our good players.

 

[GrandfinalGurus]

Its time the AFC looked at some fresh faces to put along side Craig in the coaches box. David Noble has been there for 3 to 4 years now and has been overseeing the midfield and forwards, the 2 areas where we have fallen away. It wouldn't hurt to get some younger brains with broader thinking that may help NC going forward.

 

[RoosterLad]

Send Noble back to the Bays.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

So who do you think the Crows should move on?

Unfortunately the horse has bolted on us for us to manage our list aggressively on our terms. Firstly, we had three players leave last season (Mattner, Hudson, Welsh) - none of them at the club's choosing. Secondly we have Burton, Hentschel and Porplyzia coming off injuries with question marks over their availability. And thirdly we turned over a heap of players last year and if we repeat the process, will be left with a group of teenagers.

I would prefer the club to look at it from the other direction. Which players currently on our list have shown a bit and we need to develop if we are to re-enter the top four? In no particular order - Mackay, Tippett, Dangerfield, Otten, Petrenko, Kite and Walker. Now, these guys need to play. They need games and they need minutes. Perhaps not all together, perhaps not all at the same time, but it needs to happen.

So the question the club needs to ask is not which players to move on - we're hamstrung there - but which players should no longer be first choice players in our 22 every week.

Of the guys who have played senior footy this year, I'd nominate Massie, Stevens, Shirley, Doughty, Campbell, Jericho and McGregor as players who should spend some more time in the SANFL next season, at the expense of some younger players. A lot of these guys have had solid seasons so it will be very difficult and will take some balls for the club to go down this path.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Of the guys who have played senior footy this year, I'd nominate Massie, Stevens, Shirley, Doughty, Campbell, Jericho and McGregor as players who should spend some more time in the SANFL next season, at the expense of some younger players. A lot of these guys have had solid seasons so it will be very difficult and will take some balls for the club to go down this path.

If we are going to move on as a club, the kids have to be played ahead of the 2nd stringers next year.

 

[achancely]

Indeed Crows have been SH!te come finals....but why? Not because they 'sink' or choke...it's because they play better teams with better players.

It aint rocket science... and losses of this nature never need the pedantic dissecting and royal commission they inevitably receive.

Hope that clears it up for you guys.

Clears it up? You insufferable tool. If it was that simple, we wouldn't do so well in the regular season.

Collingwood was not a better team, nor did it have particularly 'better players'. We should have beaten them.

 

[footy4ever]

Clears it up? You insufferable tool. If it was that simple, we wouldn't do so well in the regular season.

Collingwood was not a better team, nor did it have particularly 'better players'. We should have beaten them.

Good on you, you internet hero.

Get your head out of your @r$> and face reality.

Better team. Better players.

Twice beaten by them...easily! How many more times do we have to lose to Collingwood in one year before you get that very simple message?

 

[achancely]

Good on you, you internet hero.

Get your head out of your @r$> and face reality.

Better team. Better players.

Twice beaten by them...easily! How many more times do we have to lose to Collingwood in one year before you get that very simple message?

You're being the internet hero with your 'factual statements to the board'.

Not a better team, nor particularly better players. We lost through injury in the first game against them, the second time we lost our bundle.

Better coach, I might agree with.