Serial Killers

[SmartAlec]

looks like my sources were on the mark

Actually no they weren't.

You might check what you said.

And the response provided last Tuesday.

Seems circumstances have changed.

You didn't listen and your "sources" have / had no idea.

The hearing did not take place today - it was vacated.

Why was it vacated and by whom?

Rhetorical question by the way.

#immediategoals #kumbaya #boom #lookadumbasstroll

 

[Power Raid]

Assured nothing will happen other than new court dates

Actually no they weren't.

You might check what you said.

And the response provided last Tuesday.

Seems circumstances have changed.

You didn't listen and your "sources" have / had no idea.

The hearing did not take place today - it was vacated.

Why was it vacated and by whom?

Rhetorical question by the way.

#immediategoals #kumbaya #boom #lookadumbasstroll

sure, OK

Whether the sitting happened or was to be postponed........nothing was going to happen other than being deferred to 2018

I trust you are familiar with proceedings and thus should have known this

 

[Dan Baker]

sure, OK

Whether the sitting happened or was to be postponed........nothing was going to happen other than being deferred to 2018

I trust you are familiar with proceedings and thus should have known this

They are waiting for the outcome of Hayleys trial? Wark lived in Mosman Park. Talk about hot spot.

To hold a suspect in remand this long, a judge must have been convinced the prosecution has some pretty solid evidence.

There must still be a lot of information coming in, and or witnesses.


Claremont serial killer-accused court case delayed until next year
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...rial-delayed-to-next-year/9077770?pfmredir=sm

 

[Power Raid]

They are waiting for the outcome of Hayleys trial? Wark lived in Mosman Park. Talk about hot spot.

To hold a suspect in remand this long, a judge must have been convinced the prosecution has some pretty solid evidence.

There must still be a lot of information coming in, and or witnesses.


Claremont serial killer-accused court case delayed until next year
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...rial-delayed-to-next-year/9077770?pfmredir=sm

There is a lot of confidence in the camp with the DNA providing strength. The risk of course is how the DNA was collected and stored. That said those close are very relaxed......oh and they are legally trained.

We only talk about process or publicly available information, so I'm not privy to any discussions or confessions BRE may or may not have provided. Nor am I privy to any further investigations on SS but I dare say the way the ABC wrote their article, there are developments in both regards.

 

[Dan Baker]

There is a lot of confidence in the camp with the DNA providing strength. The risk of course is how the DNA was collected and stored. That said those close are very relaxed......oh and they are legally trained.

We only talk about process or publicly available information, so I'm not privy to any discussions or confessions BRE may or may not have provided. Nor am I privy to any further investigations on SS but I dare say the way the ABC wrote their article, there are developments in both regards.

The interesting thing is, the longer you wait on a plea, the less the bargaining power.

There is the forensic 'link' which appears to be the cord used in both Karrakatta and Ciaras case impregnated allegedly with chemicals used in printing with words on them.

Cant wait to see if the chemicals are ink off screen printed items. What colour are they etc.

I'm going to speculate, the clothes line rope taken with the kimono off the washing line in the kimono case.

DNA is not the only evidence.

 

[Dan Baker]

Ciara had visited a '*** shop' to buy some fun toys as a laugh for her sisters hens night. Wonder where that was?

These items were in her bag at the time of abduction. Would it be on her credit card transaction? Maybe not in the day as cards weren't as prevalent.

 

[SmartAlec]

sure, OK

Whether the sitting happened or was to be postponed........nothing was going to happen other than being deferred to 2018

I trust you are familiar with proceedings and thus should have known this

Yeah - very familiar.

Sound academics and genetics.

Didn't take 10+ years to do an undergraduate degree or diploma

 

[Power Raid]

Yeah - very familiar.

Sound academics and genetics.

Didn't take 10+ years to do an undergraduate degree or diploma

when were you arrested and what for?

 

[SmartAlec]

Seems circumstances have changed.

What years did the CSK victims attend Iona?

Iona Presentation College - named after Iona - St Columba and the Irish Saints.

Una G was of course a teacher at Iona.

Ciara attended as a student.

What years did Ciara attend UWA?

What years did Robyn Santen attend UWA?

Wrote a thesis on wetlands, right?

Thanks in advance.

#immediategoals #kumbaya #boom

 

[SmartAlec]

Gerard Ross

Acting Detective Inspector Jon Munday, from the Special Crime Squad, said a comprehensive review of the case file had been carried out in 2014.

He said the review had opened up new lines of inquiry "which police hope will lead to a breakthrough."

"Whilst police have spoken to almost 1200 witnesses during this investigation, we believe there are others with information who have not yet come forward for their own reasons," Acting Inspector Munday said.

"We ask those people to re-consider their position given the passage of time and potential changes in allegiances"

2014 - comprehensive case file review and new lines of enquiry.

Who alluded to the possible connection of the Gerard Ross murder to other WA cold cases?

Who were the creepers in the sedan?

Or was it a station wagon? (Who said that again?)

Who are these people who know who killed Gerard Ross - a 12 year old boy murdered in a senseless brutal way - but have not come
forward?

Changes in allegiances?

Allegiance (noun)

1. the loyalty of a citizen to his or her government or of a subject to his or her sovereign.
2. loyalty or devotion to some person, group, cause, or the like?

What twisted campaigners have loyalty and devotion to child murderers?

Who killed Gerard Ross?

Very interesting the use of allegiance. That would imply a group. What sort of group of people?

Allegiance (noun)

1. the loyalty of a citizen to his or her government or of a subject to his or her sovereign.
2. loyalty or devotion to some person, group, cause, or the like?

So the cops are taking about changes of allegiances.

Again.

I agree - what sort of group of people?

An unholy fraternity?

That's the killer question right there.

Hate to be on that membership list

 

[SmartAlec]

Female Serial Killer: Aileen Wuornos

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Wuornos

Victims: 7 between 1989 & 1990.

Assessed using the Psychopathy Checklist, Wuornos scored 32/40. The checklist evaluates individuals on a 20-item list of antisocial and interpersonal behaviors, with each item being scored at zero, 1 or 2 and thus a maximum score of 40. Depending on location and research perspective, scores above 25 or 30 are consistent with a diagnosis of psychopathy.

Sentenced to death.

Executed by lethal injection - 9 October 2002

Her last words were, "Yes, I would just like to say I'm sailing with the rock, and I'll be back, like Independance Day, with Jesus. June 6, like the movie. Big mother ship and all, I'll be back, I'll be back."

Favourite song was "Carnival" by Natalie Merchant which she wanted played at her funeral.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/1261...er-aileen-wuornos-that-will-haunt-your-dreams

"It wasn’t until I was told that Aileen spent many hours listening to my album “Tigerlily” while on death row and requested “Carnival” be played at her funeral that I gave permission for the use of the song. It’s very odd to think of the places my music can go once it leaves my hands. If it gave her some solace, I have to be grateful."

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/nataliemerchant/carnival.html

Campaigner last seen being wheeled out on a gurney.

Not sure she got the funeral.

 

[SmartAlec]

Charles Manson, US cult leader and convicted murderer, dies at 83

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/20/charles-manson-dead-cult-leader-sharon-tate

"Manson was convicted, along with four of his followers, of orchestrating the murders in 1969 of the pregnant actor Sharon Tate and six others in two attacks.

He was the leader of a cult known as the Manson Family, made up mostly of disaffected young women, some of whom became killers under his tutelage."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...689a9f2d84e_story.html?utm_term=.ab7b91373d6a

"He was not crazy, but he could fake it and had an insatiable need to control others, prompting him to recruit naive and malleable acolytes to his family, according to behavioralists who studied his life.

“Basically, Manson was a coward,” Eric Hickey, dean of the California School of Forensic Studies at Alliant International University, told Maclean’s magazine in 2012. “He was the kind of guy who had other people do his bidding, and I think he really enjoyed taking advantage of people who were gullible.”

 

[Dan Baker]

Seems circumstances have changed.

What years did the CSK victims attend Iona? Sarah 18 in 1996 So 1995? Ciara 27 in 1997, so 1987? Cutler 22 in 1988, 1983? Went Curtain uni

Iona Presentation College - named after Iona - St Columba and the Irish Saints.

Una G was of course a teacher at Iona. Sewing according online sources

Ciara attended as a student.

What years did Ciara attend UWA? 1988 onwards?

What years did Robyn Santen attend UWA? Robin PATON. She worked UWA as well apparently. Not certain but for oil and gas as an engineer.

Wrote a thesis on wetlands, right? Yes Oh you looked at the map ( Limitations of ASR for Wetland Restoration in the Perth Basin) Ex Scarborough clubbie
I do wonder if Cutler met someone at the Cott surf club?

"He is highly organised, very, very clever and has his methods of entrapping and killing women down to a fine art," - Overseas investigator
http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/JulieCutler.htm

 

[SmartAlec]

Seems circumstances have changed.

What years did the CSK victims attend Iona? Sarah 18 in 1996 So 1995? Ciara 27 in 1997, so 1987? Cutler 22 in 1988, 1983? Went Curtain uni

Iona Presentation College - named after Iona - St Columba and the Irish Saints.

Una G was of course a teacher at Iona. Sewing according online sources

Ciara attended as a student.

What years did Ciara attend UWA? 1988 onwards?

What years did Robyn Santen attend UWA? Robin PATON. She worked UWA as well apparently. Not certain but for oil and gas as an engineer.

Wrote a thesis on wetlands, right? Yes Oh you looked at the map ( Limitations of ASR for Wetland Restoration in the Perth Basin) Ex Scarborough clubbie
I do wonder if Cutler met someone at the Cott surf club?

"He is highly organised, very, very clever and has his methods of entrapping and killing women down to a fine art," - Overseas investigator
http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/JulieCutler.htm

So CG and RS went to UWA.

CG - lawyer working for a leading firm.

Did RS go to Iona?

What years did she go to UWA as a student? What years did she work there?

What are the limitations of wetland restoration?

Yeah, I saw the map.

If I recall someone reckoned some pretty twisted stuff goes on there. They got arrested.

Bit of commotion over the conservation of the Perth wetlands over the years. Recently too.

You say RS worked for oil and gas as an engineer - not exactly a business known for championing environmental outcomes?

When did RS go missing?

Was her thesis a masters or doctoral work at UWA?

 

[Dan Baker]

So CG and RS went to UWA.

CG - lawyer working for a leading firm.

Did RS go to Iona?

What years did she go to UWA as a student? What years did she work there?

What are the limitations of wetland restoration?

Yeah, I saw the map.

If I recall someone reckoned some pretty twisted stuff goes on there. They got arrested.

Bit of commotion over the conservation of the Perth wetlands over the years. Recently too.

You say RS worked for oil and gas as an engineer - not exactly a business known for championing environmental outcomes?

When did RS go missing?

Was her thesis a masters or doctoral work at UWA?

I was trying to establish if Robyn went to Iona. However, one of her friends went to Iona who said we miss you Robyn.

Her name was Robyn Paton. She used to be a member of the Scarb surf club. There is going to be a bit of inference with these names, but this is not a good coincidence.
Given the extensive search, I thought there would be a body.

The name Paton is a Scottish baby name. In Scottish the meaning of the name Paton is: royal.
https://www.ancestry.com.au/name-origin?surname=paton

This interesting surname has two origins. Firstly, it may be of English origin, being a diminutive of Pat(e), itself a pet name of Patrick, ...

 

[SmartAlec]

Charles Manson's followers: Will those still alive ever get out of prison?

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-manson-followers-20171121-story.html

"He was the leader of a cult known as the Manson Family, made up mostly of disaffected young women, some of whom became killers under his tutelage."

“He was the kind of guy who had other people do his bidding, and I think he really enjoyed taking advantage of people who were gullible."

"They periodically come up for parole review, though none has been released."

Short answer - nope.

 

[GreyCrow]

Just on Manson #pedantic but he wasnt a Serial Killer in the strict sense of the term or to be honest in the loosest of terms. More of a spree killer killing/ordering for profit/revenge.

 

[GreyPower]

Saw a special on 613 on Foxtel recently on Berkowitz/Son of Sam.

Subsequently watched some interviews with him on Youtube (done in recent years in jail). He does look genuinely rehabilitated, although I dont have an issue with him staying in jail for rest of hid life.

He tends to downplay the significance of his neighbour's dog.

Also, I dont think its ever really been established whether he was acting alone.

 

[GreyPower]

I watched a documentary on 613 on this guy recently - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Wilson_Spencer

He was an evil SOB.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Israel Keyes is an interesting lesser known or talked about case. Incredibly methodical until his last murder broke his modus operandi and murdered close to home. Where as he travelled to other states for his others sometimes using a murder kit he’d stashed years before.

 

[Superstar swan]

Great thread...fascinating stuff..any recmmendations for some good books? Ive read the ice man and while i thoroughly enjoyed it, cant help but think alot of it is made up or exaggerated.

 

[SmartAlec]

I think you will find there has been a recent 'audit' to ensure integrity. Hence, evidence such as Rochford's bludgeon was discovered and numerous crimes across Australia solved with a rerun of evidence using 'familial' DNA testing.

Property rooms across Australia, have been retested with new technology and squared away for criminal database analysis. That means that criminals may not have their DNA on the criminal database but familial ancestors may, which leads through a breadcrumb of suspects to perpetrators.

So an old piece of evidence may lead to someone related to a perpetrator.

Some evidence from Mosman Park no doubt...

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cri...-it-says-arthur-greers-daughter-ng-b88701676z

Sounds like it.

 

[GreyCrow]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cri...-it-says-arthur-greers-daughter-ng-b88701676z

Sounds like it.

Interesting read. Sounds very similar to the way the families of Darryl Beamish were manipulated . Read Presumed Guilty by Bret Christian

 

[Dan Baker]

the importance of a grotesque rubber mask, found with Sharon’s remains nine years after her disappearance, took on great importance.
---- paragraph break ----
“In my mind, I don’t think the mask had anything to do with anything. It was just picked up out of the rubble (when they found Sharon’s body), just like a handbag and a comb, but they (the police) didn’t use those things in evidence. There was a fancy dress shop shop right up the road on Glyde Street and I used to go there regularly. They had lot of masks there. The deli next door (to Greer’s shop) also kept lots of plastic joke stuff.”

John Greer told detectives that he had used a mask in various pranks and that he had stuck his tongue through the mask’s mouthpiece for a laugh.

The masks sound like they were scare masks. We haven't seen the mask have we.

They say the remains decayed at different rates. Indicative of being a freezer.

I do wonder if someone had buried the body when the drainer had finished under the pipes in the trench so that the body would not be excavated as the pipes were there?

Here is another link; The Sunday Times, 24 Dec 2017

Murder Mystery That Shook A City
https://www.pressreader.com/australia/the-sunday-times/20171224/283326112719618

Dr Pocock believes there was a notable difference in the “degree of decomposition between the top part of the body and the bottom part” and suspects the lower part may “have been frozen for a considerable part of the nine years” that Sharon was missing.

 

[Power Raid]

the importance of a grotesque rubber mask, found with Sharon’s remains nine years after her disappearance, took on great importance.
---- paragraph break ----
“In my mind, I don’t think the mask had anything to do with anything. It was just picked up out of the rubble (when they found Sharon’s body), just like a handbag and a comb, but they (the police) didn’t use those things in evidence. There was a fancy dress shop shop right up the road on Glyde Street and I used to go there regularly. They had lot of masks there. The deli next door (to Greer’s shop) also kept lots of plastic joke stuff.”

John Greer told detectives that he had used a mask in various pranks and that he had stuck his tongue through the mask’s mouthpiece for a laugh.

The masks sound like they were scare masks. We haven't seen the mask have we.

They say the remains decayed at different rates. Indicative of being a freezer.

I do wonder if someone had buried the body when the drainer had finished under the pipes in the trench so that the body would not be excavated as the pipes were there?

Here is another link; The Sunday Times, 24 Dec 2017

Murder Mystery That Shook A City
https://www.pressreader.com/australia/the-sunday-times/20171224/283326112719618

I remember a detective words in the 90s, who worked for the National Crime Authority, saying "we know who the criminals are and we might not get them for the crimes they did, but we will get them one way or another".

I dare say similar tactics were once used nation wide.