Serial Killers

[TheStinger]

On the Zodiac Killer, any link to Arthurt Leigh Allen was refuted when DNA failed to connect him to any of the letters. It is probably a mystery that will never be solved, but people just won't stop trying.

The DNA match was done by testing the saliva on the back of one of the stamps that came with his letters. How hard would it be for him to get someone else to lick the stamp for him. Hell, a dog could have licked the stamp. He wasn't an idiot. He was crazy, but not an idiot.

 

[Kram]

I just watched a documentary on YouTube just then on it, from 2003. Have any recent developments been made since then? Surely with today's forensics, his identity will be uncovered eventually.

All they really need is a name with the evidence they have, fingerprints, DNA and obviously the handwriting samples they probably have enough.

 

[Kram]

The DNA match was done by testing the saliva on the back of one of the stamps that came with his letters. How hard would it be for him to get someone else to lick the stamp for him. Hell, a dog could have licked the stamp. He wasn't an idiot. He was crazy, but not an idiot.

ALA only had some very weak circumstantial evidence against him. He looked nothing like the killer that the witnesses described at the Stine scene, his prints don't match, handwriting doesn't match and how would he know about the future of DNA testing technology way back in the early 70's and to not the lick the stamps?

There is absolutely no way he was the Zodiac.

 

[BACCS]

The DNA match was done by testing the saliva on the back of one of the stamps that came with his letters. How hard would it be for him to get someone else to lick the stamp for him. Hell, a dog could have licked the stamp. He wasn't an idiot. He was crazy, but not an idiot.

Like Kram81 said above, I doubt he would have known about DNA testing in the 70's, so to say he worked around that isn't right. On another case, I just looked up the highest number of known deaths by a serial killer, and Harold Shipman is recorded to have killed 215 people, with many believing the number is close to 500. Here is a background on him for any interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

 

[Ebert80]

One of Australia's most notorious serial killers, the "granny killer"..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Glover

 

[BACCS]

I just found this site of the top 10 serial killers, not just for the number of deaths, but the way in which they were carried out:
http://listverse.com/2007/08/22/top-10-evil-serial-killers/
Just a warning, there are some pretty horrific descriptions in there.

 

[TheStinger]

ALA only had some very weak circumstantial evidence against him. He looked nothing like the killer that the witnesses described at the Stine scene, his prints don't match, handwriting doesn't match and how would he know about the future of DNA testing technology way back in the early 70's and to not the lick the stamps?

There is absolutely no way he was the Zodiac.

There was a theory going round that there was actually two Zodiac killers working in tandem. The evidence that didn't support ALA being the Zodiac may have been from the other person.

However this may have come from people trying to convince themselves that Allen was their man.

 

[DidakDelight]

I dont think Joran Vander Sloot is a serial killer.
Just a young dumb ass addicted to poker.

The media is in a frenzy over here about this guy.

 

[Kruges!]

Agreed. I'm interested in the mind of these people as well.

Julian Knight is another - He's eligible for parole in 2014.

I remember reading about that, that dude is one seriously messed up fella. My old man was telling me all about the Martin Bryant case all those years ago because that was a bit before my time and from then on, I had to research it to find out what happened and why. It is really fascinating stuff.

 

[kwame]

my uncle went to high school with julian knight.....said even then he wasnt normal....real wierd guy. wasnt suprised when it turned out he was a sociopath

there a difference between a serial killer and a mass murderer. guys like martin bryant are mass murderers not serial killers

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

The scary thing is you live in Adelaide

One of the best posts for timing and content I've ever seen here.

 

[Kruges!]

my uncle went to high school with julian knight.....said even then he wasnt normal....real wierd guy. wasnt suprised when it turned out he was a sociopath

there a difference between a serial killer and a mass murderer. guys like martin bryant are mass murderers not serial killers

Geez that's would be pretty freaky for the uncle, knowing someone who went and did that. I know I'd be freaked. And yeah, I know, but it ties into the same thing really, both types are mentally insane and the reasoning behind why is interesting.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Peter Tobin has almost certainly killed dozens of women in Britain over previous decades.

 

[r dub 19]

Peter Tobin has almost certainly killed dozens of women in Britain over previous decades.

SLF, isn't there a bunch of murders in scotland in the poorer areas where "loan sharks" still exist. Saw it on a financial show once

 

[Damon_3388]

Watched the Truro Murders case on Crime Investigation Australia the other night. Chilling. I was getting more and more freaked out with every successive girl he killed. Scary to think how many more he would have killed had he not died.

My Mum went to primary school for a brief time with Christopher Worrell (says he seemed like a bit of a weird type, even at that age), and one of the girls that Worrell and James Miller murdered was picked up around the corner from where my parents lived before I was born.

Like the OP and some others in this thread, I have a bit of an interest in serial killers myself; I've even got "serial killers" listed under my "Interests" on my Facebook page. CI Australia is one of my favourite television shows, and I'm often watching similar shows on the CI channel on Foxtel about serial killers and murderers. I'm always fascinated to learn of the motives behind and the methods of their crimes. Whilst their crimes are obviously shocking and are largely unspeakably inhumane and unacceptable, they're always strangely interesting as well.

A good movie relating to the topic is Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer, which is loosely based on the confessions of American serial killer Henry Lee Lucas.

And despite it being pure fiction, I think it'd be remiss of me not to add this classic gem into the thread:

[YOUTUBE]8WdEL8DzvaM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

SLF, isn't there a bunch of murders in scotland in the poorer areas where "loan sharks" still exist. Saw it on a financial show once

Yeah, there's a big problem with loan sharks in the west of Scotland but they generally don't kill people, unless they go to the cops. They are more evil, they essentially get poor people into so much debt they make them act as slaves - minding drugs, running stuff etc. Its pretty grim.

That Tobin ****er though, I know for a fact (coz the senior CID copper for one of the major Scottish forces told me) that there's teams working across the country trying to match up cold cases and stick more on him.

The word is the cops know he's the notorious Bible John but are struggling to stick it on him.

Dude is evil.

I also spent some time in the company of Luke Mitchell when I visited Polmont.

Creepy ****er but I still don't reckon he done it.

Also interviewed a dude I can't name for legal reasons who never killed anyone but is the youngest person ever to be given an Order of Lifelong Restriction.

He was a weird, weird bloke.

I've met plenty of people who have killed loads, dozens, maybe hundreds of people in war time situations, but they don't count as serial killers IMO.

 

[Shell]

Thanks for these guys, this has given me plenty of reading and watching material for the holidays. .

Just as long as they're not giving you any ideas.


(But yeah now worries, you're welcome )

 

[bunsen burner]

Anyone know of Richard Kuklinski? I've read his book "The Ice Man", pretty crazy stuff. Worth looking up the interviews on youtube in which he tells of various stories of the 200+ people he killed. Wound up working as a hitman for the mob which got him involved with more obvious crime which eventually led to him being caught by police. OP should definitely check him out if he hasn't already done so!

Kuklinski is a liar. His book is laughable. He claims he was going to Manhattan every week and murdering randoms. Complete bullshit. He also tried to claim he was in on the Castellano hit and Galante hits.

Kuklinski is a total fraud. His book is absolute rubbish.

 

[Shell]

there a difference between a serial killer and a mass murderer. guys like martin bryant are mass murderers not serial killers

Definition of a Serial Killer as from the trutv website:

The FBI defines serial murder as:
* A minimum of three to four victims, with a "cooling off" period in between;
* The killer is usually a stranger to the victim — the murders appear unconnected or random;
* The murders reflect a need to sadistically dominate the victim;
* The murder is rarely "for profit"; the motive is psychological, not material;
* The victim may have "symbolic" value for the killer; method of killing may reveal this meaning;
* Killers often choose victims who are vulnerable (prostitutes, runaways, etc.)

 

[bunsen burner]

Anyone here read ICEMAN??

Wow, now thats a serial killer!

If you're into fiction.

 

[bunsen burner]

I watched the Iceman interviews on CI a few months back and he is a highly intelligent man and I don't doubt for one second that he killed as many people as he says he did. And for all his claims, no mafia informants have come out and refuted any of them, as far as I know. Probably don't want to wind up dead.

Common sense whilst reading the book should tell you he's a huge liar. History tells us who was at the Castellano hit and the Carmine Galante hit. Yet he claims he was there as well. Clearly he's lying. He also claims he was murdering hungreds of randoms in NYC in a short period of time. Impossible to go unnoticed. And if it did happen there would be more official documentation.

ps plenty have refuted his claims. It's common knowledge he's a liar.

 

[bunsen burner]

The Claremont Serial Killer is an interesting case.

 

[r dub 19]

Does anyone watch "The first 48", great real life show where us detectives try solve murder cases. However the murder is usally drug/gang related. One thing I have learnt is that the murderer could actually get off but eventually they just crack and tell the cops. The other night a lady said she hadn't touched a safe then they found her fingerprints and said she had been lying. She cracked and told them everything even though they wouldn't of had enough evidence to convict her.

Moral of the story, if you murder someone don't crack

 

[Shell]

Does anyone watch "The first 48", great real life show where us detectives try solve murder cases. p

Yup, remember that show well. Loved watching it... except channel 7 screwed it over with a pathetic timeslot, usually having it on at midnight or even later.

 

[Mr Gor]

Does anyone watch "The first 48", great real life show where us detectives try solve murder cases. However the murder is usally drug/gang related. One thing I have learnt is that the murderer could actually get off but eventually they just crack and tell the cops. The other night a lady said she hadn't touched a safe then they found her fingerprints and said she had been lying. She cracked and told them everything even though they wouldn't of had enough evidence to convict her.

Moral of the story, if you murder someone don't crack

Easily one of my favourite shows. Whenever I see it's going to be on CI i IQ it (that sentence may sound odd to non-foxtel owners). Either way, good watching with genuine cases being played out. Interrogation is definitely the most interesting part though.

As for bunsen burner, in regards to Kuklinski, I can't really comment on whether he was lying or not. I don't know enough about the mafia stuff to know whether he was involved in those hits, and I can't determine if all the random killings were realistic. But it's a valid angle. If you can get links or some evidence or something I'd like to have a look myself.