Moved Thread - Serious assault following last night’s game | Page 32 | BigFooty

Moved Thread Serious assault following last night’s game

Discussion in 'Society, Religion and Politics' started by Bunk Moreland, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. Kappa

    Kappa Brownlow Medallist

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    There are so many reoffenders because of the lure of drugs, a failure of the prison system to rehabilitate and a failure of society to provide proper pathways for ex-cons to have jobs and lives after prison... Nothing to do with judges.

    Do you realise that "independent" board of random people would be some of the most powerful people in the country and could control how the courts and even laws work? These could easily be people with massive sexist or racist prejudices with no responsibility

    Who picks these people? Just randoms off the electoral roll? So people with absolutely zero idea about how the legal system works are now the ones in charge of overseeing its operation.. brilliant.

    Let's just pick 6 random people to oversee how our military operates too.
     

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  2. radiojake

    radiojake Brownlow Medallist

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    I remember reading an article about a high percentage of people believing judges/courts being too lenient in many cases

    But when it came to people who had actually sat in on the case (ie jury, or were aware of all facts) the percentage of people who think the judges/courts were too lenient drops rather dramatically
     
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  3. captain blood 17

    captain blood 17 Tiger of Old

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    Interesting, so a jury can be a collective of individuals from “the streets” to decide innocence or guilt but not be able to assess a decision?
    And alot of people reoffend because they can, ie: they are back out on the street and have 0 interest in rehabilitating.
    And on the racist thing, you reckon every person who sits on a jury is squeaky clean? And you’re assumption that judges aren’t or can’t be corrupt, racist, drug addicts themselves is pretty mind blowing.
    I think you need a rethink on a few things.


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  4. the harry

    the harry Brownlow Medallist

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    Can people who aren't well off afford Xavier? No.
    Can people who are well off go to pakenham? Yes.
     
  5. Isaac Cumming No 1

    Isaac Cumming No 1 Premium Platinum

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    We've had this thing called the common law since King Henry the second in 1166 to do exactly that. it's worked pretty well on the whole since then.

    I agree they should get significant punishment, but not more because of the publicity.
     
  6. Kappa

    Kappa Brownlow Medallist

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    There are lots of poorer families who make big sacrifices to send their kids to expensive schools. It's a small number overall, but so is the amount of wealthy families who live in Pakenham and also send their kids to the local public school.
     
  7. Bunk Moreland

    Bunk Moreland Brownlow Medallist

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    I’ve had a good chat to a mate of my dad’s about this topic, he spent his career in education both public and private schools.

    He always said “it all - all of it - starts and ends at home”

    He always said that no matter where he taught, the kids who were “smart” and got ahead almost always had good, dedicated parents, and the others had shitty, neglectful parents.

    He taught in poorer areas where students left school very well equipped and kicked on because they had parents who were dedicated and instilled discipline. Likewise elite private schools where some students were genuine deadshits. You might be able to give your kids lots of material things and buy them a spot in an expensive school, but it doesn’t matter if you don’t follow it up with proper attention and discipline at home. They walk out the gate at 3pm then it’s up to the parents.

    And plenty of parents spend huge on education he suspected out of guilt. “Giving their kids the best” but too often off doing their own shit (work/other stuff) and not being a good parent.

    That could well be the case here, who knows.

    Of course, there are plenty of good parents at private schools too.

    He isn’t right or wrong, just his opinion. 90% parenting, 10% school.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 8:16 AM
  8. Off The Couch

    Off The Couch Hall of Famer

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    Everything begins at home - 90% of development has been done before they turn 5

    And I agree with your dad’s mate Bunk Moreland that when you see how a child behaves and I’m talking from around the age of 10 upwards that it’s a pretty fair indicator that the parents are just an older version
     
  9. Dixie Normous

    Dixie Normous Club Legend

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    If I had a son in his early 20's who did what these grubs did, I would put out my cigarettes on his face and insert a large dildo in his arsehole using a croquet mallet
     
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  10. Bunk Moreland

    Bunk Moreland Brownlow Medallist

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    Sounds a healthy parenting strategy lol
     
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  11. captain blood 17

    captain blood 17 Tiger of Old

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    Yeah, not much has changed since 1166. :think


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  12. captain blood 17

    captain blood 17 Tiger of Old

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    Can’t work out if this is a game parenting strategy or a scene from a Jackass movie.


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  13. Isaac Cumming No 1

    Isaac Cumming No 1 Premium Platinum

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    It's opinion but the common law has been evolving ever since. It's shitloads different than it was in 1160.

    I think there's safety in a system that had the kinks ironed out over a long period.

    My reflex when people propose radical change is to suggest you consider there's good reason why the rule of law and the independence of the judiciary has evolved the way it has.
     
  14. captain blood 17

    captain blood 17 Tiger of Old

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    I guess i’m coming from a balance and checks pov. Where i am looking at is after the decision is made, not interferring with the process that leads to the decision.


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  15. Isaac Cumming No 1

    Isaac Cumming No 1 Premium Platinum

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    Well I get the law has to reflect community values, I am just cautious about racing into change.
     
  16. captain blood 17

    captain blood 17 Tiger of Old

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    Understandable, but something needs to change. It’s a bit like safety. Everyone deserves the right to go home safely. One workplace death or accident is too many.
    So in my eyes, one assault, one rape etc, it’s too much. We need to crack down on these filth. And if it means tougher sentencing i don’t really care.


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  17. Vintage

    Vintage Club Legend

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    Tougher penalties do not always lead to lower crime. Education, rehab, opportunities etc all work better when they are provided - unfortunately that’s not often enough.
     
  18. Kappa

    Kappa Brownlow Medallist

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    lol

    If you can't see the difference between deciding guilty or innocent in 1 criminal trial (and the result can be appealed) compared to overseeing the judicial system then I don't know what to say.

    I quite clearly never made that assumption, so it's pretty mind blowing that you would accuse me of saying something I obviously never said. Judges can be all kinds of things, but I'll back them in to make better legal decisions than randoms in the community.

    "People reoffend because they can" what a ridiculous oversimplification that just shows how ignorant you are about the topic.

    As has already been said in this thread, generally the only people who think judges are too lenient are herald sun readers who read a few newspaper articles with half the facts missing and think they're legal experts
     
  19. captain blood 17

    captain blood 17 Tiger of Old

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    It’s interesting that you really try to put people down and are quite derogatory to get your point across.
    So again, people have the ability to sit on a jury, but couldn’t possibly review judges decisions to see if the punishments are reflective of community attitudes and values. So judges are totally immune from being held to account. You seem to think i want people making the decisions not judges. I have never said that. I want a process after the decision, not during or the making of. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

    And absolutely people reoffend because they can and don’t give a shit. You have your head in the sand on that. Maybe become mates with some coppers, it may change your perspective.

    As for your last paragraph, foolish comment. Needless and dumb would be an understatement.



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  20. Deliverance

    Deliverance Premiership Player

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    He's right. People who think they're getting a better education at private schools are amongst the most delusional people on the planet.
     
  21. captain blood 17

    captain blood 17 Tiger of Old

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    I don’t disagree, but hit them harder at the start. The value of a life isn’t woeth much these days.


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  22. Gavin Excell

    Gavin Excell Brownlow Medallist

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    Private school education though probably assists the mediocre/average student get a better ATAR if indeed that's what important to people
     
  23. Deliverance

    Deliverance Premiership Player

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  24. Bunk Moreland

    Bunk Moreland Brownlow Medallist

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    You can be a good person and a bad parent.

    It’s all about priorities. You have a kid... are you willing to put them before absolutely everything else in your life when required, for the next 20 years? It’s a monstrous commitment. Rich, poor, smart, dumb... many parents don’t follow through with it.
     
  25. Vintage

    Vintage Club Legend

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    How do I get my 9yo daughter to stop sneaking lollies out of the drawer without asking?
     
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