Sexual Misconduct in Hollywood (+ now Australia!) - All individuals combined

[pantskyle]

Arghhh he sounds disgusting and like he thought he could wear her down into consenting, but I don't see a power imbalance or threats. It actually reminds me of encounters I had as a teenager which is pretty gross.

Not sure why she went public when she addressed it directly with him

Funny you say that, my missus said the same thing in regards to herself when she was younger, I've now dumped her for being a ****.

 

[phantom13]

Maybe you need to decide what is more important- your reputation and sexuality, or your career.

I never got the "career" thing. Sure it is their dream career. But many people have careers that they dream of, only to work in some other industry instead. If they can't get work as an actor, then there are other career choices. Shame that you can't "live your dream", but better to report the predator, and damn the consequences. If it costs you a promising career, at least you will have your integrity, and will just to have do something else. Or find some other way into the industry (short films, independent films, TV shows etc).

In the end, it's only a job. What you think of yourself is more important.

Well I don’t necesarily disagree but the movement is there to ensure that people can pursue their career of choice without fear of this. Imagine if wanting to be a teacher or accountant came with the inherent risk and fear of sexual abuse and harassment because of the predatory behavior of a handful of higher ups, we wouldn’t just sit back and go “oh well, don’t become a teacher then”

 

[Gralin]

Arghhh he sounds disgusting and like he thought he could wear her down into consenting, but I don't see a power imbalance or threats. It actually reminds me of encounters I had as a teenager which is pretty gross.

Not sure why she went public when she addressed it directly with him

It does come across a lot more like an insecure 18yo trying to take a girl out on a date and make this big lose their virginity night and think they can just make it happen if they keep trying

Neither of them seem to be out of high school in that story

 

[blackcat]

forced himself on many women is exactly one of the things he's in trouble for, if you reckon he forced himself on many women why are you even arguing for him?

test the evidence in a criminal court. *

my personal affairs and how I interact with prospective intimate partners and my intimate partner, is none of anyone's business, but I have been presumed weird in advocating some evidentiary standard.

what has occurred here, is a conflagration of ambitition intersecting with an asymmetry of expectation(s). The men(rule of thumb) viewed interaction wrt aim of sex, accessing casual sex**, (the Laura Mulvey gaze lens). Women, were either seeing men as i)means to end(career or/and roles), or ii)engaging in act of coitus with star/producer or star producer, not merely star actor, or iii) both i) & ii). Rutting males unwilling to see co-party as anything other than a sex partner. It is risible, but so is the middle aged rutting male. I am not part of this section of society.

*I have already said, there exists a flaw in criminal court on the arbiter <'he said-she said'>, but I neutered[sic] this by saying I accept a different non-jury version of truth. but I still wish evidence tested, if this aint a paradox(when it is).
**star system in Hollywood and America, fame, means that casual sex partners are willing and on-tap. This creates a problem inandof itself, as these men no longer have a regular perspective of women turning down their sexual engagement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Mulvey​

Tina Fey needs to be publically shamed on twitter, that is the new measure no?​

 

[Sterge]

Interesting response to the Aziz story from yesterday

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html

I’m apparently the victim of sexual assault. And if you’re a sexually active woman in the 21st century, chances are that you are, too.

That is what I learned from the “exposé” of Aziz Ansari published this weekend by the feminist website Babe — arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October. It transforms what ought to be a movement for women’s empowerment into an emblem for female helplessness.

 

[phantom13]

In the event that someone refutes the claims then sure test the evidence but most have admitted the claims and apologized.

 

[blackcat]

How do you think sexual harrasment should be delt in Hollywood?

I think they had their own rules, an Insider-Outsider paradigm. This was not a regular section of society.

I think the problem is America getting a President that they do not want, and their collective rejectionism found a tangentally different forum. As I said, this intersects with the #RussiaSCARE!

If they can bring a rape case against Harvey, bring the case and prosecute him. But folks have always been using a eugenics lens, wrt partnering, marrying into establishment families, choosing a family not a partner, power and wealth have always been two aspects determining connubial worthiness. It is like lady Macbeth, methinks the lady protests too much. These are two characteristics men and women aspire to.

 

[phantom13]

Interesting response to the Aziz story from yesterday

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html

Good article. Also seems to be the sentiment of most on here (and I get all my social commentary from big footy)

 

[drd23]

Interesting response to the Aziz story from yesterday

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html

I'd describe it as "common sense" rather than interesting. Especially the bits about mind reading, lacking agency and the harm that conflating this woman's experience with the #MeToo movement can do to it

It'll be interesting to see what the feminist response is that opinion piece, especially given its written by one

 

[blackcat]

pursue their career of choice

calling this a career is stretching it. The career of hollywood is waiting tables and driving taxis. If we are adult, we would do some regression on potential actors in CA, working actors in Hollywood, and how many actors/actresses actually earn a living wage, Hollywood may have a material rounding error on the CA economy, but the percentage that goes to the jobbing actors, is not even miniscule. The fact that they publish the star salaries and their residuals(commissions) means their is an out-of-whack perception. The labour market in America, should tell one, that but no person commands employment unless they can impose themself on the market. Both men and women. So this is a fundamental flaw, that male and female actors deserve employment in the dream factory of hollywood, and continueing this refrain of rhetoric, they should not be made to wait tables of drive cabs in hollywood, they all deserve to have their dreams fulfilled.

 

[phantom13]

test the evidence in a criminal court. *

my personal affairs and how I interact with prospective intimate partners and my intimate partner, is none of anyone's business, but I have been presumed weird in advocating some evidentiary standard.

what has occurred here, is a conflagration of ambitition intersecting with an asymmetry of expectation(s). The men(rule of thumb) viewed interaction wrt aim of sex, accessing casual sex**, (the Laura Mulvey gaze lens). Women, were either seeing men as i)means to end(career or/and roles), or ii)engaging in act of coitus with star/producer or star producer, not merely star actor, or iii) both i) & ii). Rutting males unwilling to see co-party as anything other than a sex partner. It is risible, but so is the middle aged rutting male. I am not part of this section of society.

*I have already said, there exists a flaw in criminal court on the arbiter <'he said-she said'>, but I neutered[sic] this by saying I accept a different non-jury version of truth. but I still wish evidence tested, if this aint a paradox(when it is).
**star system in Hollywood and America, fame, means that casual sex partners are willing and on-tap. This creates a problem inandof itself, as these men no longer have a regular perspective of women turning down their sexual engagement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Mulvey​

Tina Fey needs to be publically shamed on twitter, that is the new measure no?​

Again it’s difficult to ascertain what you’re trying to say here (aside, the way you write is extremely difficult to decipher, might just be me I suppose) it seems as though you’ve made the assumption every (or most) women are or should approach the situation expecting and accepting of sexual advances and alternately that every (or most man) is approaching it with the intention of making an accepted advance, isn’t that exactly the issue that we’re trying to address. An actor going for an audition shouldn’t have to expect or even concerned they (he or she) is going to be hit on, they are going for a professional job interview, it’s not the forum, then the power imbalance comes into play, a director etc has sway in the situation and can and has (by accusations) implied or flat out said that sex will be a job and refusal will be a career ending decision.

 

[phantom13]

calling this a career is stretching it. The career of hollywood is waiting tables and driving taxis. If we are adult, we would do some regression on potential actors in CA, working actors in Hollywood, and how many actors/actresses actually earn a living wage, Hollywood may have a material rounding error on the CA economy, but the percentage that goes to the jobbing actors, is not even miniscule. The fact that they publish the star salaries and their residuals(commissions) means their is an out-of-whack perception. The labour market in America, should tell one, that but no person commands employment unless they can impose themself on the market. Both men and women. So this is a fundamental flaw, that male and female actors deserve employment in the dream factory of hollywood, and continueing this refrain of rhetoric, they should not be made to wait tables of drive cabs in hollywood, they all deserve to have their dreams fulfilled.

That’s irrelevant, someone going for an audition should be judged on merit not willingness to engage in a sex act.

 

[blackcat]

Again it’s difficult to ascertain what you’re trying to say here (aside, the way you write is extremely difficult to decipher, might just be me I suppose) it seems as though you’ve made the assumption every (or most) women are or should approach the situation expecting and accepting of sexual advances and alternately that every (or most man) is approaching it with the intention of making an accepted advance, isn’t that exactly the issue that we’re trying to address. An actor going for an audition shouldn’t have to expect or even concerned they (he or she) is going to be hit on, they are going for a professional job interview, it’s not the forum, then the power imbalance comes into play, a director etc has sway in the situation and can and has (by accusations) implied or flat out said that sex will be a job and refusal will be a career ending decision.

I have made numerous qualifiers, wrt rule-of-thumb, knowing this obvious generalisation would be pilloried. But I was using it to explicate the point, hence the qualifier.

one does not audition in a hotel room. I believe the place of the meeting, completely defines a warped context by the powerful. You don't audition in this man-with-a-reputation 's hotel room, upstairs at the 4 Seasons.

If they are indeed smart and powerful women, did they put two and two together and come up with nine? Do they deserve to be raped? Did I say they deserve to be raped? Certainly, by acceding to the invitation upstairs, either they are i)sublimating autonomy* (*paradox), ii)acknowledging the man's expectation** (**does not mean they agree to sex, and should be abused)

We are told they are intelligent. The men certainly aren't, tabula rasa the rutting fools could not get laid without someone getting paid. But the women also come out of this, as not the brightest sparks exercising autonomy.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

The thing is, the moment a woman withdraws consent, then the man has to back off.

Sexual assault isn't just the woman not giving consent, it is also the woman NO LONGER giving consent.

A guy and a girl might be getting it on, but if the girl says "Stop! Please! No more!" the man has to stop that instant, and zip up his pants. It doesn't matter that a moment earlier she wanted it.

Agree with the bolded part that is deemed as harrasment.

If the guy does a bit of friendly flirting then that should be ok and not demeed as harrasment imo unless the girl feels uncomfortable.

 

[phantom13]

I have made numerous qualifiers, wrt rule-of-thumb, knowing this obvious generalisation would be pilloried. But I was using it to explicate the point, hence the qualifier.

one does not audition in a hotel room. I believe the place of the meeting, completely defines a warped context by the powerful. You don't audition in this man-with-a-reputation 's hotel room, upstairs at the 4 Seasons.

If they are indeed smart and powerful women, did they put two and two together and come up with nine? Do they deserve to be raped? Did I say they deserve to be raped? Certainly, by acceding to the invitation upstairs, either they are i)sublimating autonomy* (*paradox), ii)acknowledging the man's expectation** (**does not mean they agree to sex, and should be abused)

We are told they are intelligent. The men certainly aren't, tabula rasa the rutting fools could not get laid without someone getting paid. But the women also come out of this, as not the brightest sparks exercising autonomy.

You probably have made qualifiers, as mentioned its incredibly difficult to interpret your posts with the style of writing you employ. The only point id contend in this is the bolded and it will no doubt be countered by you because Hollywood acting isn't what you define as a real career.

If a very important director asks you to audition in a hotel room, you don't have much choice but to do so do you? If youre an aspiring actor and you get told this is what you have to do your choices become
1- Don't do it, don't get the job and probably never get a break, also potentially risk ostracizing and pissing off said director and having your name tarnished industry wide.
2- Do it and risk the very real chance of being harassed or assaulted.

Instead the narrative should be that no one asks someone to audition in a hotel room and when said audition occurs, anywhere, the actor in question is not being subject to the choice of sexual favours for the part, again, that's the goal, that's the whole point of outing the perpetrators, of changing the power dynamic.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

You probably have made qualifiers, as mentioned its incredibly difficult to interpret your posts with the style of writing you employ. The only point id contend in this is the bolded and it will no doubt be countered by you because Hollywood acting isn't what you define as a real career.

If a very important director asks you to audition in a hotel room, you don't have much choice but to do so do you? If youre an aspiring actor and you get told this is what you have to do your choices become
1- Don't do it, don't get the job and probably never get a break, also potentially risk ostracizing and pissing off said director and having your name tarnished industry wide.
2- Do it and risk the very real chance of being harassed or assaulted.

Instead the narrative should be that no one asks someone to audition in a hotel room and when said audition occurs, anywhere, the actor in question is not being subject to the choice of sexual favours for the part, again, that's the goal, that's the whole point of outing the perpetrators, of changing the power dynamic.

Refusing an audition in a hotel room wont stop an aspiring actress from getting another job her agent will hook her up with another audition with some one else.

 

[phantom13]

Refusing an audition in a hotel room wont stop an aspiring actress from getting another job her agent will hook her up with another audition with some one else.

Unless Harvey decides to s**t can her in the industry which he had a reputation for doing.

 

[blackcat]

You probably have made qualifiers, as mentioned its incredibly difficult to interpret your posts with the style of writing you employ. The only point id contend in this is the bolded and it will no doubt be countered by you because Hollywood acting isn't what you define as a real career.

If a very important director asks you to audition in a hotel room, you don't have much choice but to do so do you? If youre an aspiring actor and you get told this is what you have to do your choices become
1- Don't do it, don't get the job and probably never get a break, also potentially risk ostracizing and pissing off said director and having your name tarnished industry wide.
2- Do it and risk the very real chance of being harassed or assaulted.

Instead the narrative should be that no one asks someone to audition in a hotel room and when said audition occurs, anywhere, the actor in question is not being subject to the choice of sexual favours for the part, again, that's the goal, that's the whole point of outing the perpetrators, of changing the power dynamic.

play the invitation and your volte face with deftness, a deft handling. These are smart people, feign an excuse. Dont play the game for an upstairs audition which is clearly not an audition, it is an offer for a part, for a role, in exchange for meeting the satisfaction of a producer. Not my terms. But if you accede to playing the game, they are your decisions. There are other art forms and Steppenwolf(equivalent) theatre companies in the major cities across America which are many...

I dont think you should sleep with Bob Evans to get the part, this is not my choice, but does this not put their artistic pursuit choices in the spotlight? Why Hollywood. Hollywood manufactures dreams, offers fame, brings wealth to a choice few, none of these things it offers are real, the entire industry is fantastical, on a literal and meta level.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Unless Harvey decides to s**t can her in the industry which he had a reputation for doing.

Well if that director dosen't want to hire said actress because Harvey trashed her reputation then he/she is an idiot.

If was a director I would still hire the actress regardless of what Harvey said as long as she can act everything else shouldn't matter.

 

[pantskyle]

Well if that director dosen't want to hire said actress because of what Harvey said then he/she is an idiot.

If was a director I would still hire the actress regardless of what Harvey said as long as she can act everything else shouldn't matter.

Then Harvey wouldn't hire you to direct the movies.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Then Harvey wouldn't hire you to direct the movies.

If it's like that then fine i would just find another studio.

 

[pantskyle]

If it's like that then fine i would just find another studio.

Now you're blacklisted.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Now you're blacklisted.

Well I'm ****ed then haha

 

[phantom13]

play the invitation and your volte face with deftness, a deft handling. These are smart people, feign an excuse. Dont play the game for an upstairs audition which is clearly not an audition, it is an offer for a part, for a role, in exchange for meeting the satisfaction of a producer. Not my terms. But if you accede to playing the game, they are your decisions. There are other art forms and Steppenwolf(equivalent) theatre companies in the major cities across America which are many...

I dont think you should sleep with Bob Evans to get the part, this is not my choice, but does this not put their artistic pursuit choices in the spotlight? Why Hollywood. Hollywood manufactures dreams, offers fame, brings wealth to a choice few, none of these things it offers are real, the entire industry is fantastical, on a literal and meta level.

You’re getting very meta with the whole thing and I think while we disagree that people should be able to pursue any career without fear of unwanted sexual advances then were never going to find a middle ground.

 

[blackcat]

Unless Harvey decides to s**t can her in the industry which he had a reputation for doing.

Sorvino, McGowan, but there are hundred k aspiring actresses in hollywood, he has sidelined a few, cos he is a rutting bully. but this is hardly a rounding error with a cut-and-thrust in other industries where you do seek to f over your competitor. this may just have had a sexual element.

And if it was two, Sorvino and McGowan, one assumes it was NOT only these two, HW would have done it to many others, females, and, invoking my inverted-tu-quoque-fallacy, he would have f'ed over men to. Just not because they compromised his sex life.

and it aint for me to advise ANYONE on what careers they should aspire to. and I openly acknowledge, you dont get John Waters bailing you up at the Oscars after party, and if any man cannot handle themself when Kevin Spacey comes on to you at the major theatre company beindes Royal in London, I cant help you, I dont think KS would be violent or physically aggressive