Sexual Misconduct in Hollywood (+ now Australia!) - All individuals combined

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phantom13

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no, you have no critical lens, you are extrapolating this to society wide mores. It is not, I was was emphasising, it aint a rounding error, it is statistically irrelevant. You seek to make policy out of this statistically irrelevant phenomena, then you smear me, for offering context. This is a moral scare. And a purge of clumsy behaviour by clumsy men and middle-aged rutting men. #metoo
In this particular instance I genuinely have no idea what your point is. I’m not looking through any lens or seeking to do anything with this or my last post, I’m just trying to read and comprehend what on earth you’re actually saying.

Have you considered just writing like a normal person so you can engage in a conversation with someone else?
 

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phantom13

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blackcat being completely serious for a second, would you like me to do my best job of writing what I interpreted from your last post. My only intention here is to show you how some of what you say comes across, not intended as a smart ass response and I'm not going to paraphrase etc. Just me reading and trying to interpret your writing. I think a lot of what you might be saying is getting lost.

Feel free to say no here by the way, just an offer.
 

YEWNIT

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and it's under investigation, he may or may not be charged obviously we don't know yet, if he wasn't a celebrity we wouldn't even know about it
Gone to the police....and the media.

That’s the bit that I find troubling and frankly suspicious.

And if he wasn’t a celebrity
I imagine Seal wouldn’t be hearing anything about it either.
 

blackcat

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In this particular instance I genuinely have no idea what your point is. I’m not looking through any lens or seeking to do anything with this or my last post, I’m just trying to read and comprehend what on earth you’re actually saying.

Have you considered just writing like a normal person so you can engage in a conversation with someone else?
when I added the hashtag #metoo is was parody. #me2 is a purge and did a better job of neutralising any validty it may have had. Twitter and Fairfax quickly jumped into a clickbait plaintivefallacy territory. Men have been clumsy, men have been criminal, there is no doubt about this. However, this current phenomena just seems a smear and purge, and I am not alone in invoking this sense.

It is a false dichotomy to say I, lowly me, have cleared particular men of criminal activity. I have not, I wish them prosecuted. #metoo(parody) and #Salem
 

JackOutback

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No no, if it’s proven IN A COURT OF LAW (as opposed to Twitter) that Seal has groped a women then no issue whatsoever with him facing the consequences.

It’s the way blokes are just being hung out to dry first without apparent due process that’s concerning me. And any man or women who dares to challenge that seeming lack of fairness publicly, is running the risk of having there career ruined as well it seems.
You must be positively outraged how at how victims of sexual assault have been ignored by police and courts over the years then. Being into due process and everything.
 

JackOutback

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Two seperate issues.

And again, one wrong doesn’t make another one right.
I think you'll find that women being denied natural justice when it comes to sexual assault is inextricably linked to the current situation. Unsurprisingly, those that benefit from privilege or inequality get really really upset at even a small fraction of the same.
 

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YEWNIT

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https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/hollywood-stars-apologise-for-working-with-woody-allen-over-sexual-abuse-claims-11210034

Funny all these actresses (and this virtue signalling Chalamet bloke) NOW coming out and publicly disavowing and expressing regret over working with Woody Allen...the guy has had sexual allegations out against him for two decades....didn’t stop them working with him until this #me too circus began.

The info on Woody Allen is out there and people can make there own mind up...simply pointing out the hypocrisy of these Hollywood starlets who only NOW turn against him when the cultural climate has changed and it’s politically impossible to continue to support him without looking like a complete hypocrite, and out of step with Hollywood’s current cause célèbre.

These women can express all the regret they want, but it’s little more than crocodile tears for mine...all about disassociating themselves from Woody because they now have to be seen to be doing so for the sake of there careers, and not wanting to appear out of step with ‘the movement’. How anyone can possibly argue otherwise is mind boggling.

Again, not me defending Allen...simply pointing out the rubbery morality system of these self proclaimed progressive Hollywood leftist starlets (Ellen Page, Greta Gerwig the two most obvious names to mention) who had no issue working with Allen and using him to boost there ‘artistic credibility’, but are now happy to stick the boot into him and throw him under the bus, when he is down. That is wrong.

This is a witchunt now, no doubt about that. And this time, all of Hollywood is falling over themselves to play the role of Elia Kazan.
 
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Bomberboyokay

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On one hand YEWNIT is all "THESE ALLEGATIONS HAVEN'T BEEN TESTED IN COURT!!!!!!!" and on the other "SEE THESE WOMEN KNEW ABOUT IT AND DID NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". He has issues with women. He doesn't seem very interested in the perpetrators.
 

YEWNIT

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On one hand YEWNIT is all "THESE ALLEGATIONS HAVEN'T BEEN TESTED IN COURT!!!!!!!" and on the other "SEE THESE WOMEN KNEW ABOUT IT AND DID NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". He has issues with women. He doesn't seem very interested in the perpetrators.
Not an anti women thing at all.

Woody’s case was investigated by authorities and he was cleared....life moved on and people continued to work with him, male and female. That’s not to say Woody was innocent, but for better or worse, the case WAS thoroughly investigated at the time.

So it’s a bit rich that now two decades later you have this Timothée Chamalet kid coming out white knight virtue signalling his arse off about ‘how this year has taught him so much’ and basically suggesting this upcoming movie he did with Woody shouldn’t come out. Why this one and none of the other 20 odd he has made prior to the lid finally blew off Harvey Weinstein’s shenanigans? It’s not as though the Dylan Farrow accusations are new. The man was investigated and cleared two decades ago, but no, let’s ignore that and destroy his career now because it’s the flavour of the month? Yeah nah, that’s wrong.

I’m also not suggesting ‘these women knew and said nothing’. The only ones who truly know whether the offences are true are Dylan Farrow and Woody Allen.

But these celebs now throwing him under the bus certainly knew about the allegations prior to this current witchunt, yet they still chose to work with him. It’s only now, for fear of being ostracised for being out of step, and not being ‘woke’ enough, that they speak up and demand he be banished like a leper.

It’s pathetic.

....and it’s ALLEGED perpetrators.
 
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phantom13

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And as for this....

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/culture/2018/1/11/16877966/shitty-media-men-list-explained

How the hell is that not slander and public defamation?

When does a wrong make another wrong right?

Never.

Quote from the article.

“In the months that followed, some of the men named on the spreadsheet were investigated. A few were suspended or fired.“

How’s that not due process? The burden of proof to sack someone is reasonably onerous, if they investigated claims and found enough substantial evidence to suspend or fire them surely that’s enough.
 

YEWNIT

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Quote from the article.

“In the months that followed, some of the men named on the spreadsheet were investigated. A few were suspended or fired.“

How’s that not due process? The burden of proof to sack someone is reasonably onerous, if they investigated claims and found enough substantial evidence to suspend or fire them surely that’s enough.
Putting aside the concept of ‘due process’, the release of such a document into the public domain alone, in and of itself, strikes me as completely inappropriate.

For example what happens now to the men ‘who were investigated’, who turned out to be innocent, but whose names have now been made public with the leaking of this trash?

What avenue for redress do they have?

Or do they just have to suck it up, because as seems to be the attitude around here, a purge on this sort of behaviour is overdue and if a few men’s lives are ruined in the process, so be it. Or the other one....they probably did it anyway, but the victims just weren’t believed.

What if they were innocent?!

This is just a free for all witch hunt, plain and simple.
 

Gralin

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Putting aside the concept of ‘due process’, the release of such a document into the public domain alone, in and of itself, strikes me as completely inappropriate.

For example what happens now to the men ‘who were investigated’, who turned out to be innocent, but whose names have now been made public with the leaking of this trash?

What avenue for redress do they have?

Or do they just have to suck it up, because as seems to be the attitude around here, a purge on this sort of behaviour is overdue and if a few men’s lives are ruined in the process, so be it. Or the other one....they probably did it anyway, but the victims just weren’t believed.

What if they were innocent?!

This is just a free for all witch hunt, plain and simple.
you keep saying its a witch hunt, which would imply that there aren't a bunch of sexual predators in hollywood

evidence so far seems to point to the fact that there are sexual predators in hollywood
 

YEWNIT

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you keep saying its a witch hunt, which would imply that there aren't a bunch of sexual predators in hollywood

evidence so far seems to point to the fact that there are sexual predators in hollywood
I imagine there are blokes doing what’s being talked about, running across the gammit of society and industry....but does that make it right to ruin a mans reputation and potentially life, simply because of the nature of the alleged offense?

Do we think it’s acceptable for people to go on Twitter or FB and publicly accuse the man living next door of being a paedophile?

Of course not.

But by your argument, we should, because there are paedophiles living in the community.
 

phantom13

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Putting aside the concept of ‘due process’, the release of such a document into the public domain alone, in and of itself, strikes me as completely inappropriate.

For example what happens now to the men ‘who were investigated’, who turned out to be innocent, but whose names have now been made public with the leaking of this trash?

What avenue for redress do they have?

Or do they just have to suck it up, because as seems to be the attitude around here, a purge on this sort of behaviour is overdue and if a few men’s lives are ruined in the process, so be it. Or the other one....they probably did it anyway, but the victims just weren’t believed.

What if they were innocent?!

This is just a free for all witch hunt, plain and simple.
If they wanted to pursue slander or libel cases I'm sure they could look into it but it would depend on what constitutes that under law and if this didn't trigger it (which I don't think it would) then its a non event.

This list, in and of itself is a total non event you are trying to turn into the Salem trials.

Its not a purge, a bunch of people who committed indiscretions of varying severity are being held accountable for their actions, there is no indication that the amount of false or fraudulent reports is any higher than at any other time (in fact id argue statistically due to the increase of overwhelmingly supported claims the percentage of false claims would be drastically lower).

You say you have no issue with men who did the wrong thing being held accountable but then have an issue with these guys being investigated and sacked because some others "might" not have done anything. The others on that list have nothing else to deal with, other than being on an excel spreadsheet.
 

phantom13

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I imagine there are blokes doing what’s being talked about, running across the gammit of society and industry....but does that make it right to ruin a mans reputation and potentially life, simply because of the nature of the alleged offense?

Do we think it’s acceptable for people to go on Twitter or FB and publicly accuse the man living next door of being a paedophile?

Of course not.

But by your argument, we should, because there are paedophiles living in the community.
Slippery slope.

Whose life has been ruined in spite of doing nothing wrong? I don't know of anyone.
 
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