Player Watch Shai Bolton - The Next Best Player In The Game

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Yoda_

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Wow, and he only averages four more disposals and two more clearances than a bloke who never goes near the middle.

It's almost like he isn't a good midfielder and clearly nowhere near the next GOAT 🙄

Teams on top of the ladder have an even distribution of contributors. It's harder to get 25 possessions when everyone around you is as well.
Don't forget, Bolton spends 5% more time on ground to ;)
 

Ricketz

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Fwiw, the small forward position(s) in the AA team should be filled by Charlie Cameron (Brisbane) and more than likely one of Isaac Heeney, Shai Bolton or Tyson Stengle so don't be disappointed if neither of the fan bois miss out in favour of the Sydney poster boy.
Heeney will surely get a gig on a flank?
 

Yoda_

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Heeney will surely get a gig on a flank?
With the AA selectors history, Bont will be on a flank with Heeney and the pockets filled by a (2nd) key forward and a true small forward (Charlie Cameron is my pick)
 

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Ricketz

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With the AA selectors history, Bont will be on a flank with Heeney and the pockets filled by a (2nd) key forward and a true small forward (Charlie Cameron is my pick)
You're right I suppose.

I fully don't expect Stengle to get the jumper by the way, but he should be named in the squad.

I was just using him as a benchmark for Bolton. It's a bit ridiculous to be talking Brownlow capacity when this year's AA isn't even stitched up.
 

Yoda_

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You're right I suppose.

I fully don't expect Stengle to get the jumper by the way, but he should be named in the squad.

I was just using him as a benchmark for Bolton. It's a bit ridiculous to be talking Brownlow capacity when this year's AA isn't even stitched up.

Yeah, I enjoy calling out the bullshit on here as much as the next (Richmond supporters are clinging onto this with Carlton's coming with a rush).

Hopefully with so much statistics to back up the argument and defuse the hype, Bolton is improving, but Tigets supporters should probably settle down a but with how highly he is rated. Exceptional talent but how many games has he got coaches votes in as a better example of rating him
 

blaisee

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Well, it's not a charity - teams that make finals have good players. Simple innit?
Sounds logical enough

Just like You would think that the greatest captain in the historyof the afl and the greatest player in Your history would actually be able to lead the team of most of the best players in the league to win a flag

Can you explain that one ?

Joel selwood the best captain ever, and the best Geelong player ever leading a team with 6 all Australians every year can’t win a flag

How can that be I wonder ?

Any ideas ?
 

Yoda_

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Sounds logical enough

Just like You would think that the greatest captain in the historyof the afl and the greatest player in Your history would actually be able to lead the team of most of the best players in the league to win a flag

Can you explain that one ?

Joel selwood the best captain ever, and the best Geelong player ever leading a team with 6 all Australians every year can’t win a flag

How can that be I wonder ?

Any ideas ?
Nice melt




You know AFL is a team game, yeah?
 

blaisee

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Can the Richmond faithful give me actual facts, statistics even of why Bolton is being rated as highly as he is?


Right now, probably not in the top 20 players in the comp, next tier? sure, but lets not pretend he is better than he actually is.
Not in the top 20 players in the comp ?

On what measure

Because he is in the top 20 players In The comp as far as afl player ratings , and he is in the top 20 players in the comp as far afl coaches votes

What are you using as a measure ? Facebook likes ? Lol
 

juss

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Can the Richmond faithful give me actual facts, statistics even of why Bolton is being rated as highly as he is?


Right now, probably not in the top 20 players in the comp, next tier? sure, but lets not pretend he is better than he actually is.
Watch him. He's an impact player, stats probably undervalue him.
 

Ricketz

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Sounds logical enough

Just like You would think that the greatest captain in the historyof the afl and the greatest player in Your history would actually be able to lead the team of most of the best players in the league to win a flag

Can you explain that one ?

Joel selwood the best captain ever, and the best Geelong player ever leading a team with 6 all Australians every year can’t win a flag

How can that be I wonder ?

Any ideas ?
Did you have a stroke or have you been getting some of those breakfast beers in?

It's like you found yourself on a completely unrelated topic.
 

Yoda_

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Not in the top 20 players in the comp ?

On what measure

Because he is in the top 20 players In The comp as far as afl player ratings , and he is in the top 20 players in the comp as far afl coaches votes

What are you using as a measure ? Facebook likes ? Lol

By this metric, Chad Warner from Sydney is better than Shai, whilst Peter Wright is almost as good.

For what its worth, Shai Bolton is 28th on the AFL player index behind stars like Nic Naitanui, Tom Liberatore, Jack Crisp and Jarad Lyons.


Have maintained Supercoach scores are close to the best indicator of a players season.
Right now Shai is 66th, yeah there are always arbitration's (Heppel is 56th) but a better indicator than how many games player x has scored coaches votes in. 7 players at Geelong may be better than Shai yet can't score votes because only 5 are available to them. SC at least takes individuality into the scoring.

Shai's best is very good, 3 are exceptions (almost 3 vote worthy games), 4 very good games (100+ scores) but then 8 games with less than 90 supercoach points which indicates a run - of - the - mill game.


Can argue all you want but the stats offered up are suggesting he is not as good as you wish him to be. Who would you rather? Shai Bolton or Clayton Oliver? Who would you rather Shai Bolton or Christian PEtracca?

Your bias will say Bolton but these are the players in the conversation for being the best player in the competition and not Shai.
 

blaisee

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By this metric, Chad Warner from Sydney is better than Shai, whilst Peter Wright is almost as good.

For what its worth, Shai Bolton is 28th on the AFL player index behind stars like Nic Naitanui, Tom Liberatore, Jack Crisp and Jarad Lyons.


Have maintained Supercoach scores are close to the best indicator of a players season.
Right now Shai is 66th, yeah there are always arbitration's (Heppel is 56th) but a better indicator than how many games player x has scored coaches votes in. 7 players at Geelong may be better than Shai yet can't score votes because only 5 are available to them. SC at least takes individuality into the scoring.

Shai's best is very good, 3 are exceptions (almost 3 vote worthy games), 4 very good games (100+ scores) but then 8 games with less than 90 supercoach points which indicates a run - of - the - mill game.


Can argue all you want but the stats offered up are suggesting he is not as good as you wish him to be. Who would you rather? Shai Bolton or Clayton Oliver? Who would you rather Shai Bolton or Christian PEtracca?

Your bias will say Bolton but these are the players in the conversation for being the best player in the competition and not Shai.
I stopped reading when you said SuperCoach is the best measure .

Sorry
But I don’t have the time to educate you
 

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Falcon3518

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As a dedicated small forward in the team on top of the ladder that also has the 2nd and 3rd Coleman medal leader, yes.

Bolton has played significant midfield minutes and his stats are on a level with Bolton's, across the board.

You guys sniff too much of your own hype sometimes.

Bolton will be at HF. Stengel will be forward pocket if he is lucky. They aren’t competing for the same spots.


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blaisee

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Uh the old, dismissive attitude, classy :thumbsu:
If you think that supercoach points are more important than afl coaches votes when evaluating the performance of players , we are too far apart to have a discussion of any value , to me .
 

BF Tiger

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Yeah, I enjoy calling out the bullshit on here as much as the next (Richmond supporters are clinging onto this with Carlton's coming with a rush).

Hopefully with so much statistics to back up the argument and defuse the hype, Bolton is improving, but Tigets supporters should probably settle down a but with how highly he is rated. Exceptional talent but how many games has he got coaches votes in as a better example of rating him
Rd 2 v GWS - 7 votes
Rd 4 v WB - 10 votes
Rd 5 v Adel - 1 vote
Rd 7 v WCE - 9 votes
Rd 9 v Haw - 2 votes
Rd 17 v GCS - 9 votes
Rd 20 v Lions - 9 votes

Polled in 7 of 19 games.

Now you can work out how many other players have polled in 7+ games and rate him accordingly.
 

Ricketz

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Rd 2 v GWS - 7 votes
Rd 4 v WB - 10 votes
Rd 5 v Adel - 1 vote
Rd 7 v WCE - 9 votes
Rd 9 v Haw - 2 votes
Rd 17 v GCS - 9 votes
Rd 20 v Lions - 9 votes

Polled in 7 of 19 games.

Now you can work out how many other players have polled in 7+ games and rate him accordingly.
Okes, so that settles it then.

Connor Rozee easily the next GOAT of the game. Twice as good a Bolton.

Man, coaches votes are the bomb!
 

blaisee

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Did you have a stroke or have you been getting some of those breakfast beers in?

It's like you found yourself on a completely unrelated topic.
I will slow down for you

You are determining Boltons worth dependent on his dragging his team to finals

I used your exact logic to evaluate selwood career and the aa jumpers gifted to Geelong and probably stengle

With so many aa players and the greatest player captain in the history of the league at the helm .

Why can’t Joel selwood win a flag as captain?
 

Ricketz

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I will slow down for you

You are determining Boltons worth dependent on his dragging his team to finals

I used your exact logic to evaluate selwood career and the aa jumpers gifted to Geelong and probably stengle

With so many aa players and the greatest player captain in the history of the league at the helm .

Why can’t Joel selwood win a flag as captain?
Maybe the problem is your reading comprehension? I'm not sure, but you seem to still be ******* this up. Selwood has dragged more teams to finals than any other AA player, yeh?
 

Yoda_

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Rd 2 v GWS - 7 votes
Rd 4 v WB - 10 votes
Rd 5 v Adel - 1 vote
Rd 7 v WCE - 9 votes
Rd 9 v Haw - 2 votes
Rd 17 v GCS - 9 votes
Rd 20 v Lions - 9 votes

Polled in 7 of 19 games.

Now you can work out how many other players have polled in 7+ games and rate him accordingly.
Proves my evidence, 5 games where he was exceptional (7+ votes) and two borderline (2 & 1 games) so not really goat territory now, is it?


Supercoach, although not exact, could be feasibly used to determine a players impact on games it takes into effect positive and negative influences on games.
 

blaisee

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Maybe the problem is your reading comprehension? I'm not sure, but you seem to still be ******* this up. Selwood has dragged more teams to finals than any other AA player, yeh?

how many flags has he dragged them to with all the AA champions

I mean best player in your history best captain ever and so on?

Answer the question.
 

Falcon3518

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See below

And over the decade he’s had the best H&A team on average. Maybe he just doesn’t lift in finals compared to H&A. Cotchin did it in a worse H&A team.


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Yoda_

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And over the decade he’s had the best H&A team on average. Maybe he just doesn’t lift in finals compared to H&A. Cotchin did it in a worse H&A team.


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Again, it's a team game hence why its a moot point
 

David_Full

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Bolton is a tremendous player but the disrepect for Cyril Rioli on this thread is ludicrous. Cyril only played about 4 full seasons around his peak, largely due to injuries. But in those peak seasons he has delivered all round performance other small forwards have not matched.

In his 4 best seasons once matured and not affected by injury in 2011-12-15-16 Rioli averaged around 3.0 goals + goal assists which is huge for scoreboard impact as can be seen by comparing to Bolton’s 2.6 average in 2022 - easily his best year so far, and his 6th season of AFL footy. Rioli was recording better numbers than that in his 4th and 5th seasons. During those peak seasons Rioli also averaged around or just under 5 tackles per game, and 15 disposals. Bolton in this his best seasons averages 2 tackles and 18 disposals. If anyone thinks a tackle is worth less than a disposal, trying watching what happens when a player gets a tackle broken. Where Bolton is doing better than Cyril ever did, just in this one season really is in score involvements(loads of Cyril’s career this stat was not kept) contested possession and of course clearances.

Bolton is an incredible player, and is probably the best centre-forward going around at present, and of course this is the biggest glamour position in footy. But Cyril Rioli as a specialist small forward yields to no player I have ever seen for his all round game. It is just that a lot of Cyril’s value was in the less glamorous areas like tackling that some people don’t recognise his value. But not that many small forwards ever get above 3.0 goals + goal assists average in a season and Cyril did that on 3 separate occasions. So he was a much higher scoreboard impact player than many imagine.

Full seasons at or above 3.0 Goals + Goal assists average

C Rioli 3

L Breust 3

E Betts 7(was a deep forward specialist)

S Bolton 0(not a specialist forward)

T Papley 0(is sitting on exactly 3.0 so far in 2022)

C Cameron 1(plus sitting on 3.1 so far in 2022)

M Walters 3

R Gray 2

T Stengle 0(sitting on 2.5 ave 2022)

J Ginnivan 0(2.2 in 2022)

T Rat 3(part of career goal assists not recorded)

T Greene 3(plus averaging 3.1 so far 2022)



Anyway, Bolton cannot possibly be better than Cyril, as Bolton missed selection in the 2020 22 under 22 team, and Cryin Miers made that team. 🤣🤣🤣
And everyone thought it was a robbery that he missed out of 2020 22under22
 

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