Recommitted Shai Bolton [re-signed]

[Joao]

Kersten , Matera,Aron .Black are great example .

Yes and all three had considerably more runs on the board at AFL level. The only think in Shai's favour over those blokes is that he is young enough to have not hit his ceiling where as you think those three aren't getting much better.

Still at this point, for all his talent they are all better players at AFL level than he is.

 

[Peel67skin]

Yes and all three had considerably more runs on the board at AFL level. The only think in Shai's favour over those blokes is that he is young enough to have not hit his ceiling where as you think those three aren't getting much better.

Still at this point, for all his talent they are all better players at AFL level than he is.

I think Crozier and Lyons contribute more to Bulldog and GC than Shai to be honest, those are my bargain trade .

 

[Grisha]

Signs are great but pretty much every player ever drafted shows signs and lots of AFL listed players dominate the VFL/WAFL/SANFL. Most of them are worth nothing.

His PERFORMANCE at AFL level is underwhelming to say the least. Is it 4 goals in 8 games playing as a small forward?

I am not disagreeing that Richmond are much better off keeping him but if he wants to go, he is worth SFA. It is the nature of the beast. Don't get angry at all the other supporters as every club has talented players take off for **** all. It is just how the market works.

Who’s getting angry? It’s not the first time supporters talk down a player their club is targeting and it won’t be the last either.

Have you watched him play any AFL games? He lit up the MCG in the first half against Sydney and then was completely gassed in the second half (his endurance is probably another knock on him). The signs are good. Yes, he’s speculative, but he’s a safer bet than pick 30 IMO. Draft picks are overrated and the sooner people stop listening to “draft experts” the better. Last draft was meant to be a weak draft. Almost the whole top twenty has hit the ground running. It wouldn’t surprise me if this superdraft didn’t live up to expectation.

 

[Grisha]

The talent is what saw him picked at 29. Has his talent led him to regular AFL games? No. Therefore his value can’t increase. I mean I’m not certain but I’d be surprised to find any player traded for higher than what they were picked because of ‘potential’ yet this potential sees them play in the seconds.

Castgna is a rookie pick 21 year old playing ahead of him. No idea on Butler, but he’s ahead of him.

In a team that relies on small forward pressure he’s on the outskirts. I could get it if he played in a team with one or 2 small forwards but how is he not getting the opportunity? Simple. The other 3-4 players in the team are viewed ahead of him.

Lastly, you mentioned his attitude? Why is that a worry? Why would that not be a worry for any club trading for him?

You want pick 15-20?

Anyway, I’m sure he extend with Tigers. It’s usually how it goes.

I don’t think he’s worth 15-20. Pick 30 is probably fair but I’d still be upset we lost him for that pick. How many pick 30s become good? As I said, he’s a safer bet than a pick in the 30s and I find a pick in the 40s to be insulting.

It is a worry for other clubs. Despite his talent, he’s not perfect.

 

[THE_GUN]

Didn't you know the Tigers won a flag all of a sudden their players are worth more, especially the ones that are playing ressies lol.

Yeah agree, Even hawks did well getting rid of surplus players like croad for overs when they were flying high

 

[Joao]

Who’s getting angry? It’s not the first time supporters talk down a player their club is targeting and it won’t be the last either.

Have you watched him play any AFL games? He lit up the MCG in the first half against Sydney and then was completely gassed in the second half (his endurance is probably another knock on him). The signs are good. Yes, he’s speculative, but he’s a safer bet than pick 30 IMO. Draft picks are overrated and the sooner people stop listening to “draft experts” the better. Last draft was meant to be a weak draft. Almost the whole top twenty has hit the ground running. It wouldn’t surprise me if this superdraft didn’t live up to expectation.

Err...every Tiger's fan in this thread. Defensive probably is the better word. Aggressively defensive perhaps? I agree with the second sentence. It is also not the first time supporters talk up a player other clubs are targeting and it won't be the last either.

Yes I have seen his AFL games. He did some nice things in patches and SFA for a lot of the time I watched him. He has some talent but doesn't seem to work hard enough and/or doesn't have the tank (as you say) and it is especially notable in your system.

How is he less speculative than a draft pick? He has some exposed VFL form, but then again plenty of WA and SA players pay senior footy before drafting and many do well.

What stops a player being speculative is demonstrated AFL form. He doesn't have that no matter how many good feels he gives you guys. If you want him valued purely on his AFL output I change my rating from pick 40 to pick 60.

 

[Grisha]

Err...every Tiger's fan in this thread. Defensive probably is the better word. Aggressively defensive perhaps? I agree with the second sentence. It is also not the first time supporters talk up a player other clubs are targeting and it won't be the last either.

Yes I have seen his AFL games. He did some nice things in patches and SFA for a lot of the time I watched him. He has some talent but doesn't seem to work hard enough and/or doesn't have the tank (as you say) and it is especially notable in your system.

How is he less speculative than a draft pick? He has some exposed VFL form, but then again plenty of WA and SA players pay senior footy before drafting and many do well.

What stops a player being speculative is demonstrated AFL form. He doesn't have that no matter how many good feels he gives you guys. If you want him valued purely on his AFL output I change my rating from pick 40 to pick 60.

Apologies, I haven’t read the whole thread. I consider this a healthy discussion though.

How many pick 30s are successful? Without looking I wouldn’t say many. I also think Bolton is disadvantaged due to his age and physical development, but the expectations of him to immediately impact AFL level remain the same as other kids in his draft class. Some perspective should be applied in his case.

I find it a bit odd that someone who has shown signs of promise at AFL level (despite being lightly framed and extremely young) plus has torn up VFL is a higher risk than pick 30 (who often fail) in a draft. Each to their own I suppose. But anyway, you seem to rate him at 40. I think 30. Our valuations aren’t too dissimilar.

 

[Taylor]

I might hazard a theory that a draftee picked at #30 might play more games on average in the next two years than a player going into their third and forth year without much AFL exposure and under 6ft.

There would be data showing a point where being non key position and non playing AFL while fit or not, after a certain number of years, leads to falling out of the AFL system.

It would be heavily distorted by first round picks being given more time

 

[Cobbler]

So in summary he’s a talented former pick 29 that’s play a handful of AFL games. In one game he had a sublime half but then was gassed.
He also may have attitude problems.

Other than that he’s clearly worth more than what he was initially picked at.

Oh and forgot he’s killing it at VFL recently and may get a game this weekend due to 3 injuries to Tigers, although he may also not get a game.

 

[Walkingwounded]

I don’t think he’s worth 15-20. Pick 30 is probably fair but I’d still be upset we lost him for that pick. How many pick 30s become good? As I said, he’s a safer bet than a pick in the 30s and I find a pick in the 40s to be insulting.

It is a worry for other clubs. Despite his talent, he’s not perfect.

Ok let’s not insult you with pick 40... Freo doesn’t have it anyway.. let’s do a player swap.. D Pearce for S Bolton... D Pearce CV reads really well . and has won the Rising Star award..

You were after a pick in his 30’s

 

[Grisha]

Ok let’s not insult you with pick 40... Freo doesn’t have it anyway.. let’s do a player swap.. D Pearce for S Bolton... D Pearce CV reads really well . and has won the Rising Star award..

You were after a pick in his 30’s

Zzzz

 

[Walkingwounded]

Zzzz

Yes almost as crazy as your proposal

 

[THE_GUN]

Ok let’s not insult you with pick 40... Freo doesn’t have it anyway.. let’s do a player swap.. D Pearce for S Hampson ... D Pearce CV reads really well . and has won the Rising Star award..

You were after a pick in his 30’s

Thats about what Pearce buys you

 

[Toadvine]

How many games had Michael Walters played in his first two seasons?

Seems to me that Shai is on a similar career path?

 

[Taylor]

It took banishing Walters to his WAFL club in 2012 to get his career on track.

A very rare case of pulling himself up by the bootlaces.

 

[Cobbler]

How many games had Michael Walters played in his first two seasons?

Seems to me that Shai is on a similar career path?

That’s purely an opinion based on nothing as Shai is yet to do anything. Purely speculative and selecting Walters is your way to make your argument seem strong.

Yet for every Walters there’s a Josh Simpson or Harley Bennell or Shane Yarran or Harley Balic or Morabito or Jayden Pitt.

That’s 6 blokes off the top of my head that would’ve been viewed as having as much talent if not more than Bolton. They all amounted to stuff all for various reasons. That’s just from my club.

Times just those 6 by the 18 clubs and you quickly realise how dumb your comment is in that Shai becomes a 100-1 shot he can replicate a Walters, the sobering reality is he’s more of a chance to do stuff all. For arguments sake you hope he splits the difference.

That’s no crack at the kid, but if you’re going to pick one superstar of the competition ‘randomly’ I’ll just throw a few others at you for an even discussion.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I mean, isnt Balic almost the perfect comparison here (his reasons for leaving dont matter, just that he was out of contract).

1) showed good things when he played a few games
2) was taken 9 picks later than Bolton
3) Went home after 2 years
4) Dominated WAFL with no pre-season ( ie didn't have the level of fitness required)
5) traded back for pick 60 odd

Freo fans were equally annoyed when we lost him so cheap as well. It's just how it goes Richmond fans

 

[Cobbler]

I mean, isnt Balic almost the perfect comparison here (his reasons for leaving dont matter, just that he was out of contract).

1) showed good things when he played a few games
2) was taken 9 picks later than Bolton
3) Went home after 2 years
4) Dominated WAFL with no pre-season ( ie didn't have the level of fitness required)
5) traded back for pick 60 odd

Freo fans were equally annoyed when we lost him so cheap as well. It's just how it goes Richmond fans

Don’t start making accurate comparisons.

With Bolton you’re suppose to speculate and he could be the next Walters!

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Don’t start making accurate comparisons.

With Bolton you’re suppose to speculate and he could be the next Walters!

Apologies, pick 6 for the next Judd. Take it or leave it Richmond

 

[Toadvine]

How many games did Orazio Fantasia play in his first two years?

 

[Cobbler]

How many games did Orazio Fantasia play in his first two years?

How good is that pick 4 Jarrod Pickett going? Or Garlett? Or Karpany?

Please find a comparison we can use.

I’ve shown Hill, Hamling just from Freo. Also Balic.

You’re using blokes that Bolton may become. That’s fine and that’s why we’re discussing him, but to assume he will be those players is a bit much. I mean I’d be giving a future Orazio or Walters some AFL time over Castagna, but why isn’t he playing AFL? Oh yeah he’s young and blah blah.

 

[Ceehook]

How can a bloke that can’t get a game in seniors be worth anything better than a 3 rd round pick?

Hey Mod , did you mean to say "Good Coast seniors" ?

 

[archiemoses]

That’s purely an opinion based on nothing as Shai is yet to do anything. Purely speculative and selecting Walters is your way to make your argument seem strong.

Yet for every Walters there’s a Josh Simpson or Harley Bennell or Shane Yarran or Harley Balic or Morabito or Jayden Pitt.

That’s 6 blokes off the top of my head that would’ve been viewed as having as much talent if not more than Bolton. They all amounted to stuff all for various reasons. That’s just from my club.

Times just those 6 by the 18 clubs and you quickly realise how dumb your comment is in that Shai becomes a 100-1 shot he can replicate a Walters, the sobering reality is he’s more of a chance to do stuff all. For arguments sake you hope he splits the difference.

That’s no crack at the kid, but if you’re going to pick one superstar of the competition ‘randomly’ I’ll just throw a few others at you for an even discussion.

Strong post

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[Rich01]

Freo supporters in this thread will be disappointed. Ralph is in discussion on Shais future with two clubs- Richmond and Adelaide. Preference is Richmond but Ralph’s trying to extract the $$$ so the Crows are a shot.

Fremantle aren’t even in the picture. Which is probably great for them, hearing all the deficiencies he has from posters who have probably never seen him play live.

 

[Toadvine]

That’s purely an opinion based on nothing as Shai is yet to do anything. Purely speculative and selecting Walters is your way to make your argument seem strong.

Yet for every Walters there’s a Josh Simpson or Harley Bennell or Shane Yarran or Harley Balic or Morabito or Jayden Pitt.

That’s 6 blokes off the top of my head that would’ve been viewed as having as much talent if not more than Bolton. They all amounted to stuff all for various reasons. That’s just from my club.

Times just those 6 by the 18 clubs and you quickly realise how dumb your comment is in that Shai becomes a 100-1 shot he can replicate a Walters, the sobering reality is he’s more of a chance to do stuff all. For arguments sake you hope he splits the difference.

That’s no crack at the kid, but if you’re going to pick one superstar of the competition ‘randomly’ I’ll just throw a few others at you for an even discussion.

I didn't pick Walters randomly. A number of posters who have actually watched him play have made that comparison. And it just so happens that Shai seems to be progressing in a similar way at this stage in his career. Fact. I'm not saying Shai will be as good. I'm saying Shai should be afforded the same patience Walters was early in his career.

What does a bunch of spuds failing have to do with Shai and what Richmond would be willing to accept for him?

Referencing compassion trades like Balic, Hill and hamling don't count for s**t. In the same way you say my comparison to the Jed Anderson and Sam Murray trades mean nothing.

In the end it appears as though there is a buyer's market for Shai's services. He is rated very highly by the club internally and any trade done will reflect that. If Freo fans think that's too much to handle then jog on.

For the record I've always said his value is between pick 25 to 35. No first round histerics from me.