Recommitted Shai Bolton [re-signed]

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Bolton to me is stuck in that situation where he is too good for VFL but not good enough for AFL right now. At senior level so far he has looked very rushed and wide eyed when the ball is in his area. Good thing is he has time on his side.

Michael Walters only played 9 games in his first 3 seasons. Things don’t click instantly for every player, especially small forwards.



Using GWS as an example is always flawed. GWS is renowned for letting players go cheaply because the Giants have a stock pile of talent.

But but..

Pies might disagree. It really is nonsense to suggest we don't care because we have loads of talent. Do you hink a wealthy person would sell you their car cheaper than a less wealthy person?

Last year's trading was, on the surface, poor by us. Their were specific circumstances though. Wilson was a compassionate release, but it's a good bet we didn't budget his contract, and had to trade in the end. The pressure on our cap was enormous.

Kennedy wasn't offerred a contract after battling his heart out for 16 games last year, carrying shoulder problems. We had to place him where he wanted to be IMO.

Other than that 'm not aware of poor trading. People like Stewart and Townsend we pretty much gave away. It gives them a better chance than delisting I think, and it's worked for both. We rarely delist.

 

[Peel67skin]

What I'm saying is. GWS are always more likely than other teams to accept unders for their players because they have a list loaded with talent.

You also got a list loaded with a lot of first Rd talent now just to name a few Rance , Rioli , martin , crotchin ,Riewoldt,caddy, prestia .

 

[Toadvine]

You also got a list loaded with a lot of first Rd talent now just to name a few Rance , Rioli , martin , crotchin ,Riewoldt,caddy, prestia .

My point is... Throwing up an example of Wilson this or Kennedy that is pointless. They were GWS players, Shai plays for Richmond. What GWS did last year has no baring.

Shai is still very young, plays in a position that is growing in value and takes time to develop. Again, as an example Orazio Fantasia only played 8 games in his first 2 seasons at the bombers.

 

[Peel67skin]

My point is... Throwing up an example of Wilson this or Kennedy that is pointless. They were GWS players, Shai plays for Richmond. What GWS did last year has no baring.

Shai is still very young, plays in a position that is growing in value and takes time to develop. Again, as an example Orazio Fantasia only played 8 games in his first 2 seasons at the bombers.

Get it , not on trade table this year as your club want to further develop his game like Fantasia , end of discussion .

 

[Obeanie1]

What I'm saying is. GWS are always more likely than other teams to accept unders for their players because they have a list loaded with talent.

Fringe players yes but not too liners.

They had so many top pick they didnt get them all right and cut their losses

 

[Obeanie1]

My point is... Throwing up an example of Wilson this or Kennedy that is pointless. They were GWS players, Shai plays for Richmond. What GWS did last year has no baring.

Shai is still very young, plays in a position that is growing in value and takes time to develop. Again, as an example Orazio Fantasia only played 8 games in his first 2 seasons at the bombers.

Richmonds problem is giving all these smaller medium forwards opportunities.

If you dont play them its a hard sell to get a 1st or 2nd round pick.

Freo paid 2nd rounders for B Hill and Wilson who were proven performers. Hill a double triple premiership player.

So how do you get a 2nd for Bolton?

 

[Morro]

Richmonds problem is giving all these smaller medium forwards opportunities.

If you dont play them its a hard sell to get a 1st or 2nd round pick.

Freo paid 2nd rounders for B Hill and Wilson who were proven performers. Hill a double triple premiership player.

So how do you get a 2nd for Bolton?

Early enough in his career where current performance is still taken with a grain of salt, and POTENTIAL still carries currency

 

[TwentyNine]

$10m over seven years

 

[Dr Tigris]

Glass half full (better pick) - undoubted AFL quality talent. Some freakish X factor. No problems with size or athleticism. Proven better than VFL level

Glass half empty (worse pick) - not taking to AFL quickly. Taking time to get intensity. Homesick (??)

So we have a guy that has definite (proven to some extent) A grade qualities. But also fairly obviously isn't a lock to a be a good AFL player. Makes the trade very difficult to work out. But also makes his position in contract talks weak. He can't point at genuine AFL quality performances.

If by the end of 2018 H&A he's playing either excellent VFL, or good quality AFL, he's in for a decent pay day and/or a trade worth a late first to early second (pick upgrade etc, you pick how it works).

If by the end of 2018 H&A he's playing similar standard to now, then he's not got much leverage to ask for big $. And a trade becomes more complicated. The WA teams (presuming he wants home) won't be sure of his value, and the Tigers will know more. So you end up with lots of games being played.

Seeing his highlights are already very nice you'd say any trade will be on the high side. But watching him play when he does something it's often a highlight thing. So his highlight tape is a false representation of his value.

Conclusion: I have no idea what'll happen if he wants to go home. I'd start with a second and go up or down from there depending on 2018 performance. He could easily turn it on and be worth a good first rounder. He could (probably) more easily go nowhere and you'd guess at a third.

 

[HBFlanker]

Bit of mail around the Swans being interested here

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Early enough in his career where current performance is still taken with a grain of salt, and POTENTIAL still carries currency

If that was the case clubs with players leaving after their draftee contract would consistently get in a trade around the same pick they paid for them. Leaving aside the GWS examples (which i agree with Toadvine are erroneous due to their list establishment rules) the examples of players being traded after their initial contracts at other clubs tells us the opposite is true. No ones saying he's a spud but the historical data tells us its pretty unlikely richmond will get a 2nd rounder for him.

 

[Morro]

If that was the case clubs with players leaving after their draftee contract would consistently get in a trade around the same pick they paid for them. Leaving aside the GWS examples (which i agree with Toadvine are erroneous due to their list establishment rules) the examples of players being traded after their initial contracts at other clubs tells us the opposite is true. No ones saying he's a spud but the historical data tells us its pretty unlikely richmond will get a 2nd rounder for him.

I dont agree that players who have shown genuine potential are then traded for much less than their draft value.

 

[Ambrosia]

I dont agree that players who have shown genuine potential are then traded for much less than their draft value.

The Gunston, Docherty, Yeo, Polec trades all suggest otherwise with all those players being much better performed than Bolton as well.

If Bolton leaves Richmond have no bargaining power they aren't going get value.

 

[jakefooty23]

Top 10 pick and 20-30.

Lol would've given you pick 2, balic and a future second for him last year easy

 

[Morro]

The Gunston, Docherty, Yeo, Polec trades all suggest otherwise with all those players being much better performed than Bolton as well.

If Bolton leaves Richmond have no bargaining power they aren't going get value.

for every case for, there will be a case against.

 

[eastfreo75]

My point is... Throwing up an example of Wilson this or Kennedy that is pointless. They were GWS players, Shai plays for Richmond. What GWS did last year has no baring.

Shai is still very young, plays in a position that is growing in value and takes time to develop. Again, as an example Orazio Fantasia only played 8 games in his first 2 seasons at the bombers.

It really takes four pre-season to get into a solid AFL. Bolton is only two years into his apprenticeship. What he was shown that

for every case for, there will be a case against.

like who?

 

[DaveLister]

for every case for, there will be a case against.

Go on then, give us an example from the last 5 years of a second year player who hasn't performed well at AFL level and retained their draft value.

 

[Morro]

Go on then, give us an example from the last 5 years of a second year player who hasn't performed well at AFL level and retained their draft value.

Go have a look yourself champ.

 

[eastfreo75]

Go have a look yourself champ.

You’re making the statement.

 

[Morro]

You’re making the statement.

And a pretty obvious one at that.

But I can't be ****ed searching for
You.

 

[eastfreo75]

And a pretty obvious one at that.

But I can't be ****** searching for
You.

Draftguru.com.au

Not that hard

 

[DaveLister]

Go have a look yourself champ.

:^)

 

[captain cotch 9]

$10m over seven years

I bet he would also say no to North haha

 

[Obeanie1]

Early enough in his career where current performance is still taken with a grain of salt, and POTENTIAL still carries currency

What did Kickett ge traded to Carlton for. Ex pick 4.

Best outcome would be a mid 2nd rounder, late 20s pick.

 

[Joao]

What did Kickett ge traded to Carlton for. Ex pick 4.

Best outcome would be a mid 2nd rounder, late 20s pick.

A pick in the 20s would be an outstanding result. It is more likely to be a pick in the 40s.