Recommitted Shai Bolton [Re-signed to 2023]

[THE_GUN]

Kelly was coming off a 5th place finish in the Brownlow (only 2 votes off second). Bolton is a gun but he's not at the level Kelly was at the time he was traded

Interesting you say that

Brownlow votes are heavily influenced by a team having a successful year as the winning teams players tend to get more votes imo
Geelong in 2019 finished top table with 16 wins and understandably kelly would have gotten votes

But i would ask you to have a look at the player comparison in detail between Kelly 2019 v Bolton 2021 whilst keeping in mind Tim Kelly was 25 years old and Shai just 22 years old. Kelly has slightly more possessions but Shai has a much better disposal efficiency %
think you will be surprised just how close these 2 players are

Tim Kelly and Shai Bolton AFL Stats Comparison

Tim Kelly and Shai Bolton AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[The Nostradamus]

Nah when player is uncontracted the buying club has the selling club by the B***s
If Bolton said im going home tomorrow the best we can expect is freo's 1st rounder which looks like being around #8-#10

It Hurts but that's the way it is unfortunately

Correct

 

[Toadvine]

Correct

Unless you're Tim Kelly who was out of contract and even had compassionate grounds for returning to WA still netting 3 picks inside the top 25 if I remember correctly.

 

[Polo342]

Unless you're Tim Kelly who was out of contract and even had compassionate grounds for returning to WA still netting 3 picks inside the top 25 if I remember correctly.

I would never pay that for Shai Bolton or Tim Kelly haha!!

 

[THE_GUN]

I would never pay that for Shai Bolton or Tim Kelly haha!!

Thats exactly the view we have regarding Cerra pick #12-#15

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Thats exactly the view we have regarding Cerra pick #12-#15

I think you greatly overestimate the effect of being out of contract. Good players still net good returns. You would get a Shield or Treloar (GWS) type deal if he left given his output and age, nothing surer. Find me a good/elite player you think was traded for unders, I can’t think of one. For elite players you get remunerated because teams lower than you will pick them up in some sort of draft and you miss out. It’s not like clubs wake up on trade week and decide who they want to get, these discussions go for years as you know with Lynch, teams make the deal work

If you think Bolton only gets you our first round pick (if he came to us), that explains why you Cerra would only be pick 12-15

 

[YEMOC NAYR]

I think you greatly overestimate the effect of being out of contract. Good players still net good returns. You would get a Shield or Treloar (GWS) type deal if he left given his output and age, nothing surer. Find me a good/elite player you think was traded for unders, I can’t think of one. For elite players you get remunerated because teams lower than you will pick them up in some sort of draft and you miss out. It’s not like clubs wake up on trade week and decide who they want to get, these discussions go for years as you know with Lynch, teams make the deal work

If you think Bolton only gets you our first round pick (if he came to us), that explains why you Cerra would only be pick 12-15

Treloar

 

[THE_GUN]

I think you greatly overestimate the effect of being out of contract. Good players still net good returns. You would get a Shield or Treloar (GWS) type deal if he left given his output and age, nothing surer. Find me a good/elite player you think was traded for unders, I can’t think of one. For elite players you get remunerated because teams lower than you will pick them up in some sort of draft and you miss out. It’s not like clubs wake up on trade week and decide who they want to get, these discussions go for years as you know with Lynch, teams make the deal work

If you think Bolton only gets you our first round pick (if he came to us), that explains why you Cerra would only be pick 12-15

Thats when the player has reached the Elite A+ bracket
Players like Shai are well on their way but still a way to go. Whilst we will all puff our chests and talk alot of tough talk the fact of the matter is an uncontracted player always gets to where he wants to go and their old club more of then than not has to compromise and accept unders.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Treloar

Lol, funnily, since he was in contract, Collingwood would have gotten MORE if he was out of contract

 

[THE_GUN]

I think you greatly overestimate the effect of being out of contract. Good players still net good returns. You would get a Shield or Treloar (GWS) type deal if he left given his output and age, nothing surer. Find me a good/elite player you think was traded for unders, I can’t think of one. For elite players you get remunerated because teams lower than you will pick them up in some sort of draft and you miss out. It’s not like clubs wake up on trade week and decide who they want to get, these discussions go for years as you know with Lynch, teams make the deal work

If you think Bolton only gets you our first round pick (if he came to us), that explains why you Cerra would only be pick 12-15

Nah when player is uncontracted the buying club has the selling club by the B***s
If Bolton said im going home tomorrow the best we can expect is freo's 1st rounder which looks like being around #8-#10

It Hurts but that's the way it is unfortunately

Thats pretty much what i did say , If Shai was out of contract and determined to go to freo your 1st rounder would be what the deal would be as our hands would be tied

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Thats when the player has reached the Elite A+ bracket
Players like Shai are well on their way but still a way to go. Whilst we will all puff our chests and talk alot of tough talk the fact of the matter is an uncontracted player always gets to where he wants to go and their old club more of then than not has to compromise and accept unders.

Bolton gets bonus points for being younger, so a club gets more games out of him. I would bite your hand off in pick 8 for Bolton, it would be as big a steal as pick 2 for Weller.

To see the effects of age on trade value. look at what Boyd was traded for to the Dogs given he had done diddly squat

 

[THE_GUN]

Bolton gets bonus points for being younger, so a club gets more games out of him. I would bite your hand off in pick 8 for Bolton, it would be as big a steal as pick 2 for Weller.

To see the effects of age on trade value. look at what Boyd was traded for to the Dogs given he had done diddly squat

Boyd was not really a good comparison and that came into effect after the Ryan Griffen fiasco and the doggies wanting to get back at GWS etc

Dion Prestia trade would probably be the closest i would say is comparable

 

[Polo342]

Thats exactly the view we have regarding Cerra pick #12-#15

Cerra was a Pick 5 and has shown that he is gonna be great. Ill admit Shai Bolton is worth a High end first round pick plus a little more but I still also believe Cerra would cost both your late first rounders.

 

[THE_GUN]

Cerra was a Pick 5 and has shown that he is gonna be great. Ill admit Shai Bolton is worth a High end first round pick plus a little more but I still also believe Cerra would cost both your late first rounders.

Yeah but he is not Great yet and no guarantee's he will ever get there
he is currently a nice player but nowhere near a Gun player

I dont see game changing explosive mid that kicks goals , I see more of an accumulator with nice skills but more outside than inside
Where players were picked is out the window after 4/5 years .

Probably not a nice thing to say but the KId just has to get more campaigner in him. Brayshaw now thats another story

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Boyd was not really a good comparison and that came into effect after the Ryan Griffen fiasco and the doggies wanting to get back at GWS etc

Dion Prestia trade would probably be the closest i would say is comparable

Your own coach has said these things take years, Dogs didn’t just get petty and decide to try to pinch Boyd.

I think even (Joao) who currently wants to never trade a first round pick ever would begrudgingly do pick 8 for Bolton. If we could get Bolton for pick 8 I would build a statue for Bell, I would similarly fire him into the sun if he accepted pick 12-15 for Cerra

 

[Joao]

Your own coach has said these things take years, Dogs didn’t just get petty and decide to try to pinch Boyd.

I think even (Joao) who currently wants to never trade a first round pick ever would begrudgingly do pick 8 for Bolton. If we could get Bolton for pick 8 I would build a statue for Bell, I would similarly fire him into the sun if he accepted pick 12-15 for Cerra

No, I wouldn't. Not because I don't think he is good enough (easily is), but because I don't want players with any baggage and I don't trust players to maintain the hunger when they have already climbed the mountain so much early in their career. He's only human and you could understand if he lost the hunger leaving the tigers.

Nobody is getting Cerra for 12-15 though, I agree with that. Also, he is staying.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

No, I wouldn't. Not because I don't think he is good enough (easily is), but because I don't want players with any baggage and I don't trust players to maintain the hunger when they have already climbed the mountain so much early in their career. He's only human and you could understand if he lost the hunger leaving the tigers.

Nobody is getting Cerra for 12-15 though, I agree with that. Also, he is staying.

Your dead to me

 

[THE_GUN]

Your own coach has said these things take years, Dogs didn’t just get petty and decide to try to pinch Boyd.

I think even (Joao) who currently wants to never trade a first round pick ever would begrudgingly do pick 8 for Bolton. If we could get Bolton for pick 8 I would build a statue for Bell, I would similarly fire him into the sun if he accepted pick 12-15 for Cerra

I kinda know how you feel and we went trough all this last year with the Higgins trade
There was no way Jack Higgins was only worth a 2nd rounder (specially at the time stkilda looking like top 4 and their 2nd looking like #35+ )
He was worth what we paid for him pick #17 and more after the 3 years he had to start his career and would have been better if not for the brain operation

But when the player says im out then you get it done and he was contracted
Im also a believer that supporters get hang ups about the number more than the list managers. e.g JVR will most likely be available this year at pick #15 but if i have pick #8 thats the player i would still take.

You or i or anybody else has no idea what we will give/get for players and we certainly cant influence it but over the years i have seen most go for less than supporters expect and the club losing the player usually loses value

 

[THE_GUN]

No, I wouldn't. Not because I don't think he is good enough (easily is), but because I don't want players with any baggage and I don't trust players to maintain the hunger when they have already climbed the mountain so much early in their career. He's only human and you could understand if he lost the hunger leaving the tigers.

Nobody is getting Cerra for 12-15 though, I agree with that. Also, he is staying.

We genuinely hope he signs 4 year deal, And Shai Bolton does the same for Richmond

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I kinda know how you feel and we went trough all this last year with the Higgins trade
There was no way Jack Higgins was only worth a 2nd rounder (specially at the time stkilda looking like top 4 and their 2nd looking like #35+ )
He was worth what we paid for him pick #17 and more after the 3 years he had to start his career and would have been better if not for the brain operation

But when the player says im out then you get it done and he was contracted
Im also a believer that supporters get hang ups about the number more than the list managers. e.g JVR will most likely be available this year at pick #15 but if i have pick #8 thats the player i would still take.

You or i or anybody else has no idea what we will give/get for players and we certainly cant influence it but over the years i have seen most go for less than supporters expect and the club losing the player usually loses value

Higgins was not best 22, you did well with that trade, happy to be corrected if any other neutral thinks otherwise.

I have no idea what these trades would be in full if they went through, I know for certain they would be more than just pick 8 or 12

 

[Polo342]

We genuinely hope he signs 4 year deal, And Shai Bolton does the same for Richmond

What if Cerra signs a 4 year deal and asks to be traded to Fremantle ?

 

[numbat06]

I would never pay that for Shai Bolton or Tim Kelly haha!!

Calm down, you virtually traded a Brownlow medalist for Hogan who you then gave up for free

 

[THE_GUN]

Higgins was not best 22, you did well with that trade, happy to be corrected if any other neutral thinks otherwise.

I have no idea what these trades would be in full if they went through, I know for certain they would be more than just pick 8 or 12

He was best 22 100%

He came into 2020 season off a brain operations and no pre season , and was playing best 22 until injured at the start of the finals when he was injured and lost his place and was due back for the GF but coming off injury and no games for 3 weeks was not selected.

 

[Polo342]

Calm down, you virtually traded a Brownlow medalist for Hogan who you then gave up for free

Do you think you overpaid for Kelly?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

He was best 22 100%

He came into 2020 season off a brain operations and no pre season , and was playing best 22 until injured at the start of the finals when he was injured and lost his place and was due back for the GF but coming off injury and no games for 3 weeks was not selected.

He was best 22 100%

He came into 2020 season off a brain operations and no pre season , and was playing best 22 until injured at the start of the finals when he was injured and lost his place and was due back for the GF but coming off injury and no games for 3 weeks was not selected.

I’ll give you best 25 given a clear best 22 plays anyway. Agree to disagree