YEP BUT JUST DON'T LET YOUR HEART RULE YOUR HEAD!
And Frodo, it's Labor NOT Labour!
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YEP BUT JUST DON'T LET YOUR HEART RULE YOUR HEAD!
And Frodo, it's Labor NOT Labour!
- Nov 17, 2000
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Until Australia adopts the American language I prefer to use the correct spelling.
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GIVE THIS MAN A THUCKING CIGAR, WELL SAID ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON.
- Nov 17, 2000
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Originally posted by Jars458
So, how do you see the economy going when most businesses in order to meet shareholder demands to have increasing profit growth have to cut costs.
The main way they do this is by cutting jobs and increasing technology to less labour intensive methods.
Incorrect, The main way is by increasing sales and developing better product. Shareholders control the company share price and therefore demand a fair return on their investment. A good company will grow and provide profit growth but the dividends are usually not a lot more than say property investment returns and the downside risk is great. Just look at the value of Telstra shares now and how much was paid for the last sale. Technology does reduce jobs but that has always been the case. Blame Stevenson for the steam engine and the loss of all the horse and cartmen or what. Society has always had to adopt to change. Look at all the new jobs in enviromentalism created in recent years that never existed.
If this continues more and more of the population will be squeezed out of the work force or will be in extremely low paid jobs
Meanwhile any production that does occur goes on in Asia where the cost of labour is significantly lower because of lower/slave wages and in some countries child slavery.
There needs to be a recognition that some people do things better than others. Australians are terrible at manufacturing in general whereas China is excellent, as is Japan and Germany. singapore was but it is now becoming a financial centre. I have seen a lot i China and India. Things you may call child labor/slavery, but you are wrong. I see children brought up in a family business who are taught to weave silk from an early ages to continue the culture. They are happy and proud. You need to undestand the cultural differences.
Meanwhile the gap between the have and have-nots gets bigger and bigger and ordinarly people are left to fall by the wayside
Incorrect, it is fact that as the rich get richer the poorer get richer too. It is only in a society where social equality is espoused , such as communism, that the incentive to do better is withdrawn and all get poorer (apart from the pigs)
So what we get is an increasingly disenchanted population who will need to be controlled by stronger security and policing methods whiich will result in teh loss of freedoms.
That is fantasy. It is the non technology countries of the third world that has strong policing etc. Adsk Mugabe or a few of the Muslim countries in the middle east
So not only will much of the population have no economic freedom, their physical freedom will also be under threat.
From the fantasy world to the ridiculous
Labor is doing nothing to stop this either as they have gone so far to the right, the only real difference is that Labor have some comapsison and care for people whilst the Libs have almost none
I disagree. They are a party of Ideology and hate
The Liberal view of a level playing field for everyone to have an equal chance of success simply does not exist.
Incorrect, where is it not level?
All that your good interest rate numbers etc etc do is increase big buisness profits and returns to shareholders.
Incorrect, most vcompanies survive on loans. Interest hikes reduce profits and put many out of business
The Rich get Richer the Poor get Poorer
Incorrect, The rich get richer and so do we all as the hard working entrepreneur creates wealth for the country. Or exactly where does my buisness tax go?
Better trample on the Unions hey, as they stand up for the working man.
If only they did! They stand up for political ideology and hatred of anything not in the communist philosophy
Society is going down the toilet. No two ways about it.
Incorrect, Society has never had it so good in Australia
The conditions I have described above may actually produce (eventually) the fundamental conditions required for a Karl Marx type revelution.
You think after seeing the results of Marxism any sane person would even let it cross their minds?
Don't get me wrong _ I am not a Marxist/ Communist
And I'm not Frodo
I like to think of myslef as a centre - right socialist.
You may think of yourself as you wish but your words speak otherwise
But people need at leat an even chance. Such a thing has never existed in the histroy of this country. Class divisions inherited from the British have been replaced by economic class divisions of globalisation.
I agree, everyone needs an equal chance. The right to choose how to spend their time and their money and the right to reap the rewards of that investment. Australia is actually a great place for giving people a fair go. I lived in the class society of UK and hated it. Australia has nothing even romotely like those class divisions...be thankful
Anyway -that's what I think. [/QUOTE
Sorry, got to do a bit of nitpicking here......
The problem here is that when you're writing about "meeting shareholder demands", I take it that you're talking about companies listed on the Australian Stock Exchange. The fact is that only a minority of Australian companies are listed companies. The vast majority of companies (and by far the largest employer) are in the small business sector....and yes, for these companies to survive, or at least keep the bankers happy so that the owners can keep the houses that they've mortgaged to finance the business, they need to make a profit.
The main way they do this is by cutting jobs and increasing technology to less labour intensive methods.
No dispute here, but remember that the use of technology has resulted in many consumer items....like your cars, fridges, computers, etc....being allowed to be manufactured at a cost that allows the vast majority of people to afford them.
If this continues more and more of the population will be squeezed out of the work force or will be in extremely low paid jobs
For the unskilled sector, this is most certainly true. And it is at this point where I disagree with the government. They should show more compassion towards unskilled workers by helping to guarantee employee entitlements when a business goes out of business or moves offshore. In the long term, most Australians will be in the service industry, but whilst we are in transition, they need to help the people left behind and who are too old to get trained for service orientated jobs.
Meanwhile any production that does occur goes on in Asia where the cost of labour is significantly lower because of lower/slave wages and in some countries child slavery.
To be fair to Asia, or China at least because that's what I have the most knowledge of, the situation is improving. Certainly the conditions now are a whole lot better than what they were ten years ago.
But labour costs will continue to stay low in China because the supply of workers far outstrips the demand.
Meanwhile the gap between the have and have-nots gets bigger and bigger and ordinarly people are left to fall by the wayside
A fault of the government with their ridiculous tax laws and GST related tax cuts that gave the money to the wrong people.
So what we get is an increasingly disenchanted population who will need to be controlled by stronger security and policing methods whiich will result in teh loss of freedoms.
So not only will much of the population have no economic freedom, their physical freedom will also be under threat.
That is a bit of an overreaction. I would seriously doubt that I'll ever see a violent revolution in Australia during my lifetime. We are not a people who have a culture of war and violence.
Labor is doing nothing to stop this either as they have gone so far to the right, the only real difference is that Labor have some comapsison and care for people whilst the Libs have almost none
No disagreement there as I've stated in my other post about the elimination of the small L Liberals from the Liberal Party.
The Liberal view of a level playing field for everyone to have an equal chance of success simply does not exist.
It's a very idealistic proposition to allow every one an equal chance of success, but the sheer nature of life means that no matter what laws we bring in, someone else will always have a better chance of success than someone else either due to better intelligence, wealth, connections, determination or whatever.
All that your good interest rate numbers etc etc do is increase big buisness profits and returns to shareholders.
It also allows small businesses the chance to make profits as well. By the way, do you have a superannuation fund? Those very same big businesses are making profits that will hopefully look after you in your retirement.
The Rich get Richer the Poor get Poorer
That has sadly been the trend over the past 30 years. Australia once had a large and vibrant middle class with a few wealthy and a few very poor. We can get a vibrant middle class again if they'd only fix the bloody tax system and INDEX the marginal tax rates.
Better trample on the Unions hey, as they stand up for the working man.
The Unions stand for themselves first and their members second. A side issue, but how many unionists have used the ACTU as a stepping stone towards parliament?
Society is going down the toilet. No two ways about it.
I disagree here. We live longer, we're healthier, we lead much softer lives compared to our parents and their parents. We have cheap food, we are allowed to express our opinions without being shot, and on the whole, our lives are much better than those who live in 90% of the world.
For all my cynicism, I'm pretty optimistic about this country and the opportunities it has. The only thing that bothers me is the heartlessness of the government, but on the whole, we have a pretty damn good lifestyle.
The problem here is that when you're writing about "meeting shareholder demands", I take it that you're talking about companies listed on the Australian Stock Exchange. The fact is that only a minority of Australian companies are listed companies. The vast majority of companies (and by far the largest employer) are in the small business sector....and yes, for these companies to survive, or at least keep the bankers happy so that the owners can keep the houses that they've mortgaged to finance the business, they need to make a profit.
The main way they do this is by cutting jobs and increasing technology to less labour intensive methods.
No dispute here, but remember that the use of technology has resulted in many consumer items....like your cars, fridges, computers, etc....being allowed to be manufactured at a cost that allows the vast majority of people to afford them.
If this continues more and more of the population will be squeezed out of the work force or will be in extremely low paid jobs
For the unskilled sector, this is most certainly true. And it is at this point where I disagree with the government. They should show more compassion towards unskilled workers by helping to guarantee employee entitlements when a business goes out of business or moves offshore. In the long term, most Australians will be in the service industry, but whilst we are in transition, they need to help the people left behind and who are too old to get trained for service orientated jobs.
Meanwhile any production that does occur goes on in Asia where the cost of labour is significantly lower because of lower/slave wages and in some countries child slavery.
To be fair to Asia, or China at least because that's what I have the most knowledge of, the situation is improving. Certainly the conditions now are a whole lot better than what they were ten years ago.
But labour costs will continue to stay low in China because the supply of workers far outstrips the demand.
Meanwhile the gap between the have and have-nots gets bigger and bigger and ordinarly people are left to fall by the wayside
A fault of the government with their ridiculous tax laws and GST related tax cuts that gave the money to the wrong people.
So what we get is an increasingly disenchanted population who will need to be controlled by stronger security and policing methods whiich will result in teh loss of freedoms.
So not only will much of the population have no economic freedom, their physical freedom will also be under threat.
That is a bit of an overreaction. I would seriously doubt that I'll ever see a violent revolution in Australia during my lifetime. We are not a people who have a culture of war and violence.
Labor is doing nothing to stop this either as they have gone so far to the right, the only real difference is that Labor have some comapsison and care for people whilst the Libs have almost none
No disagreement there as I've stated in my other post about the elimination of the small L Liberals from the Liberal Party.
The Liberal view of a level playing field for everyone to have an equal chance of success simply does not exist.
It's a very idealistic proposition to allow every one an equal chance of success, but the sheer nature of life means that no matter what laws we bring in, someone else will always have a better chance of success than someone else either due to better intelligence, wealth, connections, determination or whatever.
All that your good interest rate numbers etc etc do is increase big buisness profits and returns to shareholders.
It also allows small businesses the chance to make profits as well. By the way, do you have a superannuation fund? Those very same big businesses are making profits that will hopefully look after you in your retirement.
The Rich get Richer the Poor get Poorer
That has sadly been the trend over the past 30 years. Australia once had a large and vibrant middle class with a few wealthy and a few very poor. We can get a vibrant middle class again if they'd only fix the bloody tax system and INDEX the marginal tax rates.
Better trample on the Unions hey, as they stand up for the working man.
The Unions stand for themselves first and their members second. A side issue, but how many unionists have used the ACTU as a stepping stone towards parliament?
Society is going down the toilet. No two ways about it.
I disagree here. We live longer, we're healthier, we lead much softer lives compared to our parents and their parents. We have cheap food, we are allowed to express our opinions without being shot, and on the whole, our lives are much better than those who live in 90% of the world.
For all my cynicism, I'm pretty optimistic about this country and the opportunities it has. The only thing that bothers me is the heartlessness of the government, but on the whole, we have a pretty damn good lifestyle.
- Nov 17, 2000
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Why not use your God given brain instead of just agreeing willy-nilly with any post that remotely agrees with your extremist communist views?
Oh, another thing. If lower interest rates automatically increased business profits and return to shareholders (how wonderful it would be if it was that simple), then how do you explain how blue chip companies (and each of these companies are amongst the 50 largest in Australia) like A.G.L., Lend Lease, Western Mining, and News Corporation have had lower profits when compared to the previous financial year? Interest rates only make up one part of a business's profitability.
The other thing is that lower interest rates mean lower mortgage rates for home buyers, although for recent entrants into the market, the lower rates has meant more people into the market, thus more competition and higher housing prices. But for those who have bought homes in the past five years, I don't think you'll find any of these people complaining about lower interest rates.
The greatest economy to ever exist in this world was in the early days of Islam in the middle east. Like it or not if you read deeply into the history books you will find that it was the only known time in human existance in which a society existed without poverty, without unemployment and literally without crime. You wont find the west reminding you of it, but it did exist.
It was based on a few very basic ideas.
2.5% tax rate
No interest, illegal
Fair trading
Being the best at what you do
A tax rate of 2.5% on both savings and earnings, this ensured people had no inclination to save money but were not punished for doing so. It was one of the very few things people were FORCED to obey. Refusal to pay a tax would see an army knocking on your door. If you take from society you must return at least something to it. 2.5% is nothing. 2.5% of the worlds wealth today could feed and clothe and maybe even provide shelter for every single person in this world. 2.5% of the money spent on armies could feed and clothe eveyone on this planet. that is a fact. It wouldnt create a shortage of money. It did the opposite. From this 2.5% that the government attained it provided food to the poor, medical aid to everyone, schooling libraries and even had an excess that they didnt know what to spend on, so they spent it on beautifying cities and building gigantic architectural monuments.
A tax rate of 2.5% ensures people spend, when people spend jobs are created, from jobs people leave poverty. To ensure that wealth contined to grow Interest was BANNED. illegal, crime.
The poor could not be enslaved by the rich as they are today, they would not spend most of their lives paying interest which only made them sink deeper into financial slavery to which 99% of the modern world belongs.
These 2 very important factors PLUS the high moral conduct of businessmen in fair trading and following the principle of "if youre going to do something, be the best at it" resulted in total prosperity. When people are rich, have all they need in life and are banned from exploiting others through interest crime vanishes.
It is recorded that in the 400 years after the prophets death 6 people had thier hands amputated for thieving. in 400 years.
And then when people started charging interest "if i give something its only fair i get something in return", which created poverty and thus taxes were needed to feed them etc etc into the hole the islamic world went.
You can say all you want as a politician about your knowledge of the econmoy, about interest rates etc etc etc.
But a few simple ideas, ones that are PROVEN to work that dont need "economic experts" or even politicians to maintain them could create the perfect economic socitey.
And it makes sense, Logically
For the record The same laws apply to Christianity and Hebrewism (can be found in thier books), but like muslims they no longer follow them.
It was based on a few very basic ideas.
2.5% tax rate
No interest, illegal
Fair trading
Being the best at what you do
A tax rate of 2.5% on both savings and earnings, this ensured people had no inclination to save money but were not punished for doing so. It was one of the very few things people were FORCED to obey. Refusal to pay a tax would see an army knocking on your door. If you take from society you must return at least something to it. 2.5% is nothing. 2.5% of the worlds wealth today could feed and clothe and maybe even provide shelter for every single person in this world. 2.5% of the money spent on armies could feed and clothe eveyone on this planet. that is a fact. It wouldnt create a shortage of money. It did the opposite. From this 2.5% that the government attained it provided food to the poor, medical aid to everyone, schooling libraries and even had an excess that they didnt know what to spend on, so they spent it on beautifying cities and building gigantic architectural monuments.
A tax rate of 2.5% ensures people spend, when people spend jobs are created, from jobs people leave poverty. To ensure that wealth contined to grow Interest was BANNED. illegal, crime.
The poor could not be enslaved by the rich as they are today, they would not spend most of their lives paying interest which only made them sink deeper into financial slavery to which 99% of the modern world belongs.
These 2 very important factors PLUS the high moral conduct of businessmen in fair trading and following the principle of "if youre going to do something, be the best at it" resulted in total prosperity. When people are rich, have all they need in life and are banned from exploiting others through interest crime vanishes.
It is recorded that in the 400 years after the prophets death 6 people had thier hands amputated for thieving. in 400 years.
And then when people started charging interest "if i give something its only fair i get something in return", which created poverty and thus taxes were needed to feed them etc etc into the hole the islamic world went.
You can say all you want as a politician about your knowledge of the econmoy, about interest rates etc etc etc.
But a few simple ideas, ones that are PROVEN to work that dont need "economic experts" or even politicians to maintain them could create the perfect economic socitey.
And it makes sense, Logically
For the record The same laws apply to Christianity and Hebrewism (can be found in thier books), but like muslims they no longer follow them.
A lot of the detail of this argument is going way over my head, but at the risk of being savaged by Frodo I'm going to add my little bit.
Calling the Labor Party a party of ideology and hate is laying it on a bit thick. I don't see Whitlam, Keating or Hawke as hate-filled at all. The only one of those who comes close is Keating, and he reserved most of his vitriol for opposition members; only his funeral-director face kept him from widespread acceptance.
Take a closer look at Tony Abbott, or Peter Reith, or Phillip Ruddock, or Amanda Vanstone, or either Kemp. All have sacrificed compassion to right-wing ideology, and all are fully prepared to trample the innocent.
We can't draw any conclusions on unemployment figures, because the method of counting the unemployed keeps changing. The number of working hours per week required before being classified as employed keeps dropping. The requirements to be met to receive benefits keeps getting more austere. Whether you agree with these measures or not, the classification was a lot looser years ago, and if we used the same one now the official unemployment rate would be a lot higher. We just have more 'hidden' unemployed nowadays.
As far as I'm concerned the GST is simply an admission of defeat. If there was some way to force big business and high income earners to pay all the income tax they're supposed to (some do, many others find a way around it), there'd be no need for a consumption based tax. Of course the GST is unfair, that's no secret, but it does at least ensure a more reliable stream of money. You can thank corporate and rich-man's greed, along with a perennially toothless legal set-up, for it.
Australia's biggest problem is that we've always been a primary producer, and lately we've been encountering a lot of competition for our primary products. We have a few cosy trade arrangements, a proportion of which don't work in our favour. And the call went out years ago for us to develop niche technology industries to replace our shrinking exports. One thing we have (or had, I suppose) is brains - ground breaking research, high level graduates, techological discoveries to rank with the world's best. I was hearing that sort of talk 20 years ago, and so far little if anything has been done to capitalise on it. In fact this current Coalition government seems hell-bent on breaking down the effectiveness of our Universities. Stigmatising them as irrelevant leftist money wasters misses the point; they do produce, in their way, and I'm buggered if I know what else we've got going for us.
We don't live in the fifties any more, and we can't pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist, as Howard seems to want to. Lecturing Indonesia is plain stupid. Turning the refugee question into a pretext for stigmatising foreigners is backward. Strutting around as if we really are a world military force makes us look like the mouse that roared.
Calling the Labor Party a party of ideology and hate is laying it on a bit thick. I don't see Whitlam, Keating or Hawke as hate-filled at all. The only one of those who comes close is Keating, and he reserved most of his vitriol for opposition members; only his funeral-director face kept him from widespread acceptance.
Take a closer look at Tony Abbott, or Peter Reith, or Phillip Ruddock, or Amanda Vanstone, or either Kemp. All have sacrificed compassion to right-wing ideology, and all are fully prepared to trample the innocent.
We can't draw any conclusions on unemployment figures, because the method of counting the unemployed keeps changing. The number of working hours per week required before being classified as employed keeps dropping. The requirements to be met to receive benefits keeps getting more austere. Whether you agree with these measures or not, the classification was a lot looser years ago, and if we used the same one now the official unemployment rate would be a lot higher. We just have more 'hidden' unemployed nowadays.
As far as I'm concerned the GST is simply an admission of defeat. If there was some way to force big business and high income earners to pay all the income tax they're supposed to (some do, many others find a way around it), there'd be no need for a consumption based tax. Of course the GST is unfair, that's no secret, but it does at least ensure a more reliable stream of money. You can thank corporate and rich-man's greed, along with a perennially toothless legal set-up, for it.
Australia's biggest problem is that we've always been a primary producer, and lately we've been encountering a lot of competition for our primary products. We have a few cosy trade arrangements, a proportion of which don't work in our favour. And the call went out years ago for us to develop niche technology industries to replace our shrinking exports. One thing we have (or had, I suppose) is brains - ground breaking research, high level graduates, techological discoveries to rank with the world's best. I was hearing that sort of talk 20 years ago, and so far little if anything has been done to capitalise on it. In fact this current Coalition government seems hell-bent on breaking down the effectiveness of our Universities. Stigmatising them as irrelevant leftist money wasters misses the point; they do produce, in their way, and I'm buggered if I know what else we've got going for us.
We don't live in the fifties any more, and we can't pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist, as Howard seems to want to. Lecturing Indonesia is plain stupid. Turning the refugee question into a pretext for stigmatising foreigners is backward. Strutting around as if we really are a world military force makes us look like the mouse that roared.
- Apr 5, 2001
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Magpie_Joffa and Jars458, you're comments came straight from the heart, and I congratulate you for putting that heartless right of mussolini, snivelling, Peter (smirking git) Costello admiring, liberal party stooge Frodo put in his place.
Don't vote for the Liberals this election, John Howard hasn't committed himself to serve out his third term in its entireity (thank christ, the manipulator of people's worst predujices , but you'll get Peter Costello taking his place, which is better in some ways, but a lot worse in others (His smirk makes my skin crawl, but I can't understand why his brother, Tim is such a nice man and he's a little a-hole) but that's another story.
Don't vote for the Liberals this election, John Howard hasn't committed himself to serve out his third term in its entireity (thank christ, the manipulator of people's worst predujices
, but you'll get Peter Costello taking his place, which is better in some ways, but a lot worse in others (His smirk makes my skin crawl, but I can't understand why his brother, Tim is such a nice man and he's a little a-hole) but that's another story.
- Apr 5, 2001
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I'm sorry that was meant to be a , because I hate how he's (John Howard's) bringing out the worst in people and using the events of September 11, just to get himself elected.
SHAME SHAME SHAME (Derryn Hinch)
was meant to be a , because I hate how he's (John Howard's) bringing out the worst in people and using the events of September 11, just to get himself elected.SHAME SHAME SHAME (Derryn Hinch)
- Nov 17, 2000
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LOL
Cornellia
Draftee
Are you saying there are 4 stooges, how come only 3 were on telly?
Originally posted by Frodo
I IF Liberals sold off Telstra then they have clearly stated that the country areas would be guaranteed to be looked after beforehand. So don't give me that rural crap.
If they are not looked after now when the Government have the last say with the 51% Why the hell would they listen when 100% liable to the sharholders?
NEVER EVER vote for the Labor party
Dogs_R_Us
Space Traveller
Can someone tell me how it is inhumane to try to stop people from coming here in unseaworthy over-crowded vessels, at will? Like, you might drown or sink or get eaten by sharks, but hey, if you make it we'll take you. How does that work?
The people smugglers get richer and richer, the boat owners take more and more chances and overload even more to keep up with the demand, the tragedies recur.
It was a shocking and sad event when that boat went down (and it may not have been the first), but if such a means of transport wasn't available it wouldn't have happened. NOT - if we were more humane it wouldn't have happened. Humanity does not keep leaky old boats afloat.
I have Muslim friends. I am angered by the blatant hate attitudes that have been let loose by the combination of restricting asylum seekers and Sept. 11.
The processing of refugees has to be speeded up, with family reunion having top priority.
The people smugglers get richer and richer, the boat owners take more and more chances and overload even more to keep up with the demand, the tragedies recur.
It was a shocking and sad event when that boat went down (and it may not have been the first), but if such a means of transport wasn't available it wouldn't have happened. NOT - if we were more humane it wouldn't have happened. Humanity does not keep leaky old boats afloat.
I have Muslim friends. I am angered by the blatant hate attitudes that have been let loose by the combination of restricting asylum seekers and Sept. 11.
The processing of refugees has to be speeded up, with family reunion having top priority.
- Dec 29, 2000
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Well, I have been following politics since the mid-70's (the Whitlam dismissal started my interest when I was a high school) and I have to say, Howard does not deserve another term and here is why:-
The absolutely disgrace "Tampa" issue where he decided after letting 200 boats in to turn this one around. He is playing with peoples prejudices and deserves to be thrown out and one would hope even lose his seat of Bennelong.
The terrorist attacks - it made no difference whether Liberal or Labor was the government. Either one would have backed our allies, the US and the UK, to the hilt.
John Howard deserves no respect and one hopes enough people wake up to the fact what has he offered this election. Selective targeting of tax payersfunds - baby bonus, superannuation for the top 5%. Where is the equality he continually talks about, its just that words.
I don't have kids or earn over $85k and I think what issues will persuade me and it comes down to this - at least one party offers a vision (true they may not be able to deliver all of it but at least they are trying to offer something and not pray on peoples fears and prejudices) and whose advertising has at least been positive not negative (or like a funeral ad - what the hell is with this black and white **** - I thought my TV was playing up!)
And wake up to those that think the Government controls interest rates - the US does. And when has the dollar been below 50c - yes only during the reign of a coalition government. The nations gross debt is worse than ever but of course we did reduce the debt by $50b/$60b (which was achieved by selling Telstra).
Whilst I may not vote Labor, I certainly know the Libs won't be getting my vote. The only vision the Libs see is in the rear vision mirror - always looking backwards, never looking forwards.
The absolutely disgrace "Tampa" issue where he decided after letting 200 boats in to turn this one around. He is playing with peoples prejudices and deserves to be thrown out and one would hope even lose his seat of Bennelong.
The terrorist attacks - it made no difference whether Liberal or Labor was the government. Either one would have backed our allies, the US and the UK, to the hilt.
John Howard deserves no respect and one hopes enough people wake up to the fact what has he offered this election. Selective targeting of tax payersfunds - baby bonus, superannuation for the top 5%. Where is the equality he continually talks about, its just that words.
I don't have kids or earn over $85k and I think what issues will persuade me and it comes down to this - at least one party offers a vision (true they may not be able to deliver all of it but at least they are trying to offer something and not pray on peoples fears and prejudices) and whose advertising has at least been positive not negative (or like a funeral ad - what the hell is with this black and white **** - I thought my TV was playing up!)
And wake up to those that think the Government controls interest rates - the US does. And when has the dollar been below 50c - yes only during the reign of a coalition government. The nations gross debt is worse than ever but of course we did reduce the debt by $50b/$60b (which was achieved by selling Telstra).
Whilst I may not vote Labor, I certainly know the Libs won't be getting my vote. The only vision the Libs see is in the rear vision mirror - always looking backwards, never looking forwards.
Debate's been strangled, not only in this election but for quite some time now. The Liberal Party no longer bother looking at actual figures to back their claims as excellent economic managers. In fact, the only real financial talk coming from them (beyond the bribes they are selectively sending out), is the old mantra about Beazley's black hole. I remember that one being trotted out shortly after they won power in 1996, some of the costing being questioned (whereupon it was promptly dropped) and then the resurgence of the myth in the last election and now this year. It's just a cliche, and not even accurate.
The question keeps being asked of Beazley "How are you going to fund these promises?" Good question; but why does no-one bother to ask Peter Costello "Where did all the money go?" All this world's-best economic management (read: selling off our assets), and nothing to show for it? What happened? Surely losing your surplus so quickly is a bit careless, to say the least.
Anyway, now the war and the refugee crisis are off the front pages (here's a prime piece of hypocrisy - Howard lambasts Beazley for making political mileage out of the sunken refugee boat, and then what pops up in the Liberal Party ads? Lo and behold, the Liberal Party making political mileage out of Beazley making political mileage out of the sunken refugee boat!) we all have to concentrate on national issues. And as soon as we do the polls revert to the level they were before the crises.
It'll be close. I'd rather Howard lost, if only because his only campaign promise seems to be to "see us through these difficult times" I don't know how difficult they're actually going to be for this country, but once they're over, what does he do then? Make up policy on the run? Put his feet up? Talk about Beazley's black hole for two more years?
The question keeps being asked of Beazley "How are you going to fund these promises?" Good question; but why does no-one bother to ask Peter Costello "Where did all the money go?" All this world's-best economic management (read: selling off our assets), and nothing to show for it? What happened? Surely losing your surplus so quickly is a bit careless, to say the least.
Anyway, now the war and the refugee crisis are off the front pages (here's a prime piece of hypocrisy - Howard lambasts Beazley for making political mileage out of the sunken refugee boat, and then what pops up in the Liberal Party ads? Lo and behold, the Liberal Party making political mileage out of Beazley making political mileage out of the sunken refugee boat!) we all have to concentrate on national issues. And as soon as we do the polls revert to the level they were before the crises.
It'll be close. I'd rather Howard lost, if only because his only campaign promise seems to be to "see us through these difficult times" I don't know how difficult they're actually going to be for this country, but once they're over, what does he do then? Make up policy on the run? Put his feet up? Talk about Beazley's black hole for two more years?
The radio campaign on Beazley vs Howard in Melboune (commercial stations at least) has been that a vote for Howard is an increase in the GST.
Never has any advertising disgusted me as much, as this falsehood.
Surely a vote for Beazley is more likely to result in a GST increase, seeing that a state-wide parliamentary approval is required, and 5 of the 6 states are Labor-run?
Which of the 5 Labor-run states (SA pending an election but Labor winning in polls) would make out to help Howard in a GST increase?
- Thread starter
- #69
Sorry darky
The liars in this campaign are the liberals they are desperate mate and to suggest a labor party will increase the gst is insane and stupid the labor party will do more for the struggling australian than what any liberal party would ever do.
I suggest darky you take your liberal bias to the crap house for that is where it belongs.
The libs are turning out to be a very dangerous monster economically and socially.
These pack of self serving b.a.s.t.a.r..d.s must not be allowed to be re elected.
And your evidence is where?
Where is your evidence that a Labor vote will prevent a GST increase? A statewide majority is required to increase it, and 5 out of 6 Labor states are more likely to increase a Labor GST than a Liberal one, especially when Beazley backs 97% of the GSt, and the states are the primary benificiaries.
What is a rollback? Take GST off tampons and nappies? How will that help the economy?
Personally, I reckon it should be 10% off EVERYTHING... and it's not a biased opinion because I don't vote. That'd have teething problems, as the GST has had, but had it been implemented in 1901 when self-governance started, or at any point since, we would think nothing of a flat 10% tax.
I don't particularly like John Howard any more than any other pollie (Natahsa's boosies aside), but I'd vote for him just to stop the Union Party winning.
Yassar Arafat
Debutant
That's right Darky. You have worked out that the Losers party always talks crap and now they are mounting a GST scare campaign b/c they are bereft of any ideas fo their own.
The Libs would not increase the GST rate b/c they know such a move would be political suicide. Only Labor are that dumb and they will need to do it to fill Beazley's black hole (and I am not talking about his wife Ms. Anus).
Beazley has even adopted Howard's refugee policy so if they Loser party supporters knock Howard theya re in fact spitting in their own faces as well!
No wonder they are known as LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!
The Libs would not increase the GST rate b/c they know such a move would be political suicide. Only Labor are that dumb and they will need to do it to fill Beazley's black hole (and I am not talking about his wife Ms. Anus).
Beazley has even adopted Howard's refugee policy so if they Loser party supporters knock Howard theya re in fact spitting in their own faces as well!
No wonder they are known as LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!
so what do you think he should have done ? Opened the door to anyone from any other bloody country to just come here ? We have enough unemployment problems as it is, we have a shortage of hospital beds for Australians, etc etc. We dont need anymore immigrants.They are the reasons why John Howard is back in with a chance in this election. 6 months ago he had little hope but now after how well he handled the boat people and the terrorist attacks, the majority of people in Australia will vote for him and I am one of the majority !!!!!!!
So will the election come to be known as the Tampa v Tampons election ?
- Apr 20, 2001
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Shinners
When I said etc etc etc I meant all the other so caled good economic figures as well
Clearly there is no one on one direct corelation between interest rates and profits. I have an economics degree and I learnt at leat that much (though probably not much more)
I agree with most of what you siad in reply to my post which was a bit of a big picture look at where the world might be going in the next hundred years if current trends continue.
- Dec 29, 2000
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To all those without an economics background or understanding but believe it or not but immigration actually creates jobs and stimulates the economy. But lets not overlook the one major factor here which everyone convenient forgets about - the refugees.
In the past 5 and a half years, approx 11,000 refugees have been admitted into the country therefore why did one boat get turnaround in August this year. Oh yes, an election on the horizon. Reality check, Liberal supporters, this is a dangerous little man who has contempt for our society of racial tolerance.
Then what happens in todays early news, Howard states "the possibility of terrorists on the refugees boats". When is he going to stop the scaremongering!!! When need leadership, this is not leadership, it is playing on everyones fears.
Black holes, yes and where did the windfall go from the GST and the budget surpluses, down the proverbial drain and to various self interest groups. Economic managers, they too have no credibility.
Due to their lack of vision for the future, all they have run is a totally negative campaign and I for one will not support a party that is bereft of ideas.
In the past 5 and a half years, approx 11,000 refugees have been admitted into the country therefore why did one boat get turnaround in August this year. Oh yes, an election on the horizon. Reality check, Liberal supporters, this is a dangerous little man who has contempt for our society of racial tolerance.
Then what happens in todays early news, Howard states "the possibility of terrorists on the refugees boats". When is he going to stop the scaremongering!!! When need leadership, this is not leadership, it is playing on everyones fears.
Black holes, yes and where did the windfall go from the GST and the budget surpluses, down the proverbial drain and to various self interest groups. Economic managers, they too have no credibility.
Due to their lack of vision for the future, all they have run is a totally negative campaign and I for one will not support a party that is bereft of ideas.
