Shame on us: Do we have literally the worst development of players in the league?

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Tredz

Club Legend
Apr 30, 2011
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If not the worst, very close to it. We had 8 first round draft players playing on Sunday plus RGray, Hartlett and Trengove and could only manage that sort of performance.
 

simba_

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Jun 2, 2009
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who is coaching these guys? who brought these kids through and 'developed' them? anybody of note?
 

Daniel Flynn

Club Legend
Jan 31, 2015
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Considering Chad Wingard isn't rated in the top 20 players in the league is a pretty good example, this guy should be sh*tting all over Betts or racking up 25 30 disposals a game depending on where he's playing
 

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tribey

5 Wins-in-a-row Certificate ‘13, ‘14, ‘18, ‘20
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Geez, OneGreatClub is making negative threads? If that isn't the canary in the coalmine for this regime, I don't know what is.
For me it was when the old, measured soldiers Macca19 and Portmanteau began to voice open discontent during/after the game.

That's officially two of the four horsemen, folks.
 

JimmyBeerCans

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May 6, 2013
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Until we draft or free agency us some elite ball users preferably with a bit of dash to feed off Wines & Pepp we won't challenge seriously for a flag, I think we finally have a crop of promising young talls coming through but unless it's Wingard & Polec feeding them on a good day they'll fail in our ridiculous notion of a forward set-up anyway.
 

mic59

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If not the worst, very close to it. We had 8 first round draft players playing on Sunday plus RGray, Hartlett and Trengove and could only manage that sort of performance.
Hartlett was no. 4, Ollie Wines no. 7, Jared Polec no. 5., Paddy Ryder no. 7, Brad Ebert no.13, Travis Boak no. 5, SPP no. 18, Jasper Pittard no. 16.
Dixon was a zone selection for the Gold Coast and cost us a first round pick as well as our 2016 second round pick in a 3-way deal with Richmond.
 

mattymac

Nicks guys finish last
Jul 9, 2009
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Until we draft or free agency us some elite ball users preferably with a bit of dash to feed off Wines & Pepp we won't challenge seriously for a flag, I think we finally have a crop of promising young talls coming through but unless it's Wingard & Polec feeding them on a good day they'll fail in our ridiculous notion of a forward set-up anyway.
It's funny, ball use was one of our main weaknesses previously. Our list has no top 10 picks due to middling and draft sanctions during the Trigg era and Narcifield leaving to Geelong. Our kicking seemed to reflect this lack of top end talent. But our ball use has improved a lot.

When Pyke got to the club he made all the players undertake kicking tests. What percentage of targets could each player hit at 20 m, 30 m up to 50 m etc. in open play and and from the mark. They were then given licence only to kick within their acceptable margins. Seems to have worked. Could be worth a shot but probably depends heavily on gameplan etc. too.
 

Jakksynn

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Sep 10, 2013
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It's not that bad, but we have one of the strongest lists we've ever had, yet we're not seeing any players emerging.

Teams like the Crows & Sydney are leaving us for dead in terms of player development.

IMO Hinkley has proven now across 5 years that he's unable to develop talent.
If this is one of our strongest lists then that's a sad indictment on our AFL campaign. Sam Gray, Aaron Young, Aidan Johnson, old man Monfries all played on the weekend and we have 1 ******* injury. Our depth is crap. We have star power yes but nowhere near half the lists in the AFL
 

Byrons Firen

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If this is one of our strongest lists then that's a sad indictment on our AFL campaign. Sam Gray, Aaron Young, Aidan Johnson, old man Monfries all played on the weekend and we have 1 ******* injury. Our depth is crap. We have star power yes but nowhere near half the lists in the AFL
My bold and respectively Will Snelling, Brendon Ah Chee, Jesse Palmer, old man Krakouer. Decent opportunities given 0
Dan Houston dropped twice :eek:
Frampton not a sniff
Dougal Howard 8 goals ... nah
Eddy well who needs forwards who can kick goals when for long periods there is NO-ONE in our fwd zone. 1goal 3pts at 1/2 time !
on Sunday. I mean seriously that's an unforgetable unforgivable stat.
I'll be at AO this w/end but if there was an organised protest against Hinkley by not showing up I would vote with my feet and stay home.
 

LFC2010

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In the years Hinkley has coached we have not properly developed a KPF yet, that in itself should be sending alarm bells to our board.

Do we really want blokes like Marshall, Frampton, Howard to go down the same path Butcher went down? If we keep Hinkley any longer it's the exact path they will go.
 

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raptalia

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Mar 1, 2014
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There are people on here, and facebook especially, that will just b*tch and moan no matter what.

This signing has more potential for success than someone stringbean we pick in the 60’s. I am happy with this one and hopefully he can be 3/4 the player jay was by the time he finished.


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Most people are not critical of Wylie Buzza but of the system he finds himself in. As for stringbeans taken in the 60's there is an exception to most rules, we took Justin Westhoff with pick #71.

Buzza has one year to show that he has what it takes. The length of the contract probably indicates this is a 'suck it and see' signing.
 

benblinkau

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Oct 2, 2011
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Most people are not critical of Wylie Buzza but of the system he finds himself in. As for stringbeans taken in the 60's there is an exception to most rules, we took Justin Westhoff with pick #71.

Buzza has one year to show that he has what it takes. The length of the contract probably indicates this is a 'suck it and see' signing.
For every Justin Westhoff there is about a hundred Matthew Westhoffs. We did well there, but one exception in twenty plus years is not exactly worth hanging our hats on.

It absolutely is a hail mary, and given our recent history of poor development, he will be back in QLD this time next year. I really hope i am wrong though.
 

Powerage

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Aug 14, 2014
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For every Justin Westhoff there is about a hundred Matthew Westhoffs. We did well there, but one exception in twenty plus years is not exactly worth hanging our hats on.

It absolutely is a hail mary, and given our recent history of poor development, he will be back in QLD this time next year. I really hope i am wrong though.
Mahoney, Kingsley, Rodan as DFE's (or equivalent). Jonas and Houston as rookie picks. Etc. We have had more than one success over the journey. I'm prepared to see how Buzza goes. Hell, JPod had been delisted by two teams at least before being picked up by Geelong.
 

Tibbs

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Edited...

Mahoney, Kingsley, Rodan as DFE's (or equivalent). Danyle Pearce, Jonas and Houston as rookie picks. Etc. We have had more than one success over the journey. I'm prepared to see how Buzza goes. Hell, JPod had been delisted by two teams at least before being picked up by Geelong.
 

benblinkau

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Mahoney, Kingsley, Rodan as DFE's (or equivalent). Jonas and Houston as rookie picks. Etc. We have had more than one success over the journey. I'm prepared to see how Buzza goes. Hell, JPod had been delisted by two teams at least before being picked up by Geelong.
I was talking specifically about stringbeans (tall, skinny kids) with late picks. All of those players have been great pick ups, but not the type of player i am referring to.

Port has really struggled with their tall KPP (i don't class Jonas as a tall) and i don't know if the failure is the talent identification, the development or where the blame lies. We have got players in, and they have gone backwards!

Butcher is a classic example. Go and have a look at his U/18 year, he was slotting them from everywhere! He was definitely worth the early pick but then he regressed when he got to the club! From there, it has been a debacle and since 2009, these players have come and gone:

John Butcher
Daniel Stewart
Matt Westhoff
Mason Shaw
Mitch Harvey
Dougal Howard
Logan Austin
Billy Frampton

So is this recruiting, identification or development, or all three? Certainly frustrating to watch. Hopefully Buzza can be the next mildly successful recruit we get from another side...
 

Tibbs

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Sep 9, 2013
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I was talking specifically about stringbeans (tall, skinny kids) with late picks. All of those players have been great pick ups, but not the type of player i am referring to.

Port has really struggled with their tall KPP (i don't class Jonas as a tall) and i don't know if the failure is the talent identification, the development or where the blame lies. We have got players in, and they have gone backwards!

Butcher is a classic example. Go and have a look at his U/18 year, he was slotting them from everywhere! He was definitely worth the early pick but then he regressed when he got to the club! From there, it has been a debacle and since 2009, these players have come and gone:

John Butcher
Daniel Stewart
Matt Westhoff
Mason Shaw
Mitch Harvey
Dougal Howard
Logan Austin
Billy Frampton

So is this recruiting, identification or development, or all three? Certainly frustrating to watch. Hopefully Buzza can be the next mildly successful recruit we get from another side...
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics." Whether it was Mark Twain, or Benjamin Disraeli, or whoever ... It is such a truism!

So statistically, Port struggle to develop "talls." To make the statistical formula more complex, we add in another factor - "stringbean" talls. Lets make it even more complex - "Stringbean" talls taken with "late picks."

So by giving a list of 8 talls taken later in the draft, supposedly proves that Port has failed in developing talls players! Really? Three of those mentioned arguably have developed well, Dougal Howard, traded for 1st round pick & on big moola to the Saints. Frampton targeted with a multi-year contract. Austin has some flaws in his game, but showed heaps, sadly however has struggled with injury - The only fault possibly was that we didnt keep/want them. The rest were duds.

If people really want to come up with statistics to back up this kind of statement, then you need to at a minimum, provide similar statistics for each club as a comparison! I would hazard a guess that Port are just average in this. That in fact, just about every club has similar challenges developing talls, especially "Stringbean talls taken with late picks."

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
 

TeeKray

Moderator
Mar 1, 2014
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"Lies, damned lies, and statistics." Whether it was Mark Twain, or Benjamin Disraeli, or whoever ... It is such a truism!

So statistically, Port struggle to develop "talls." To make the statistical formula more complex, we add in another factor - "stringbean" talls. Lets make it even more complex - "Stringbean" talls taken with "late picks."

So by giving a list of 8 talls taken later in the draft, supposedly proves that Port has failed in developing talls players! Really? Three of those mentioned arguably have developed well, Dougal Howard, traded for 1st round pick & on big moola to the Saints. Frampton targeted with a multi-year contract. Austin has some flaws in his game, but showed heaps, sadly however has struggled with injury - The only fault possibly was that we didnt keep/want them. The rest were duds.

If people really want to come up with statistics to back up this kind of statement, then you need to at a minimum, provide similar statistics for each club as a comparison! I would hazard a guess that Port are just average in this. That in fact, just about every club has similar challenges developing talls, especially "Stringbean talls taken with late picks."

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
I'll give you a better stat.

Port haven't developed a top line key forward of any description with any draft pick since Warren Tredrea.

Port also haven't developed a top line ruckman of any description with any draft pick since Dean Brogan.

Key defenders are advanced scrubbers and relatively easy to find and develop.
 

Tibbs

Premiership Player
Sep 9, 2013
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I'll give you a better stat.

Port haven't developed a top line key forward of any description with any draft pick since Warren Tredrea.

Port also haven't developed a top line ruckman of any description with any draft pick since Dean Brogan.

Key defenders are advanced scrubbers and relatively easy to find and develop.
Teekray! You prove my point! This is exactly the sort of rubbish statistic that gets wheeled out ad nauseam here on Bigfooty.

Come back with figures on how many "top line key forwards" have premiership clubs like Hawthorn, Richmond, Collingwood, and the Swans, developed since Warren's time. Never mind the likes of Fremantle, Carlton, Essendon, St Kilda etc. I cant think of any that stand out, other than those they traded in!

The figures for ruckmen are even worse with many of these clubs! VERY few clubs develop ruckmen from draft to stars. The very few exceptions are the Grundy-type first round picks, and quality talent that falls though the cracks. We have one of those in Hayes, who will be a superstar IMO, and another rookie pick in Ladhams who is also heading in that direction... But hey, statistically Port cant develop players! So sorry guys, statistics say you are doomed!

I get it that people are angry, but if you are going to use statistics to back up arguments that are flawed, then do it properly! Otherwise they remain "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
 
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