Autopsy Shameful game V Dees - tell it like it is right here.

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Twinkletoes

Moderator
Jan 28, 2004
39,246
62,783
Tender Touch
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
MVFC, Storm, Everton, Socceroos
Poor Jmac. I don't think he got a single win in Adelaide in his entire career, after debuting in 2010.
At least he’s had free flights and accommodation. Many of us have forked out to travel to see that 10 years worth of crud live. :serenity now:
 

Shawshankm8

Draftee
Aug 10, 2020
1
1
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Diabolical but the dam wall was going to burst sooner or later, we’ve papered over the cracks long enough with mid road hacks other clubs were more than happy to offload.
Drafting last 2-3 years seems ok for now there’s some hope. More of that unfortunately paying for previous 5/7 years of wasted drafts left a gaping hole. Hoping like f*ck we nail the next 2-3 drafts or god help us...
 

Rod Stroker

Hall of Famer
Oct 9, 2003
34,004
24,067
Singapore / 30,000 feet
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Eagles (NFL), Suns (NBA)
In Bevo's first year was he also working with a largely changed football department? Was he forced to largely cut contact with his players for 2 months while the world went mad as a pandemic hit? Was he forced to lay off a quarter of his coaching staff? Was he then forced to relocate with his squad to a different state? Did he then get to play sweet fu** all games at his home ground? Did he have access to a second tier competition to keep lesser lights match conditioned and improving, and to bring injured players back in through?
Mate, almost EVERY coach in the league has had to deal with all that this year, it's not exclusive to only ours.

Having said that, I'll admit that all the first year coaches in Shaw, Teague, Longmuir, Nicks, are doing it tougher than most.
 

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Rod Stroker

Hall of Famer
Oct 9, 2003
34,004
24,067
Singapore / 30,000 feet
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Eagles (NFL), Suns (NBA)
I've made clear, in this thread and elsewhere, that I've got serious concerns about where we seem to be headed under Shaw, but I don't think this is a fair comparison. Beveridge has taken the Dogs to 6th-7th-10th-13th-7th, which is basically just what we did for ten years under Scott barring one out-of-the-box finals series, and they fairly explicitly 'rebuilt' before that under McCartney (a "teacher of the game" and a "developer of people") after their premiership tilt under Eade failed, such that their list had gone through an enormous amount of turnover. Your point about implementing a clear programme to address our deficiencies and turn us around quickly is a fair one, and I do think a lot of people on here have been far too comfortable with our very clear regression (far beyond what could reasonably be considered "necessary" in the name of development and future focus, or entirely excused by injuries or a new coaching team bedding in), but I don't think looking to what the Bulldogs did in 2014 provides much of a blueprint - they were in a much different situation to where we are.
No 2 teams are ever in the same situation, so of course it won't be a like for like comparison.

Their story does sound similar though:
Their failed premiership tilt under Eade after a few prelims - that was Scott for us.
McCartney as their "teacher and developer" - that's Shaw for us.
So is our next coach our Bevo who gets us the flag after missing finals for years and years?
 

chubbspeterson

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2007
2,971
1,852
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Oh boy I've resisted blasting the players all year but that was pathetic. We made an average dees team look like competent footballers.
I've seen better skills in the local park. Was it tanking? Get players to execute short kick gameplan when we have poor kicks or a change up because we were too predictable all year? Maybe its a bit like the hawks early days when they looked clueless about what they are meant to do.
Bad coaching. Bad decisions. Bad skills. Simpkin and Higgins spudding it up tells the story of the night.
Durdin wasn't great but at least he hit some targets. Ben McKay (shown a bit) first kick - out on the full... in open space... with no pressure!
Jesus. How does Murphy not get a run? At least he can kick the footy.
Too bad we couldn't have had this year last year and nabbed Anderson in the draft.
We need to draft hard next 2-3 years. Keep a bit of experience so we're not hammered every week.
Next 6 games will get ugly. Could be a few 100 pt losses coming up against good teams. Short term pain I hope. We need a proper rebuild, that's clear.
Hope the new coach, list manager and ceo can start making some calls with fresh eyes. Freo and GC have rebounded so I have hope we can do it.
 

Bigeasy

I'm here for the buffet
Apr 9, 2008
27,107
28,181
The Ponderosa
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Hammers & Steelers
Got to hold your nerve this year as it is a shocker but it's the best thing for the club in the long term.

All of our weaknesses are on display and Shaw isn't hiding away from it by continuing to play players, especially the youngsters, in positions that are in the coal face. Our backline contained McKay, Durdin and Bonar while our forward line was mostly kids.

We need to find out who has it as we already know with the older players. Sad to see Bonar go down as he was in our top 3 performers up until then. Great to see Larkey bag 4 with our midfield and LDU was impressive in his 3rd game back.

Goldy played less than 50% in the ruck, Higgins across half back and Shaw opted to try McKay and Durdin on their KPD's initially. Our spine most of the game contained McKay, Durdin, Dumont and Larkey so there definitely is some tough love happening at the moment from Shaw by giving more responsibility to the younger guys while playing senior players out of their normal positions like JMac, Higgins and Goldy.

We have a long injury list, trying to change to a new game plan which while looks haphazard and dysfunctional at the moment and years of topping up has brought us to this point. Yes we could paper over the cracks again and pretend we are a chance for a flag but judging Shaw on this year is complete nonsense. He and Brady have not even had a draft to demonstrate their imprimatur on this list yet we're calling for Shaw's head already.

What we are seeing is a team undergoing a transformation in an environment where the whole season has been compromised with Covid, Hubs, no VFL, reduced coaching team and long injury list. Yeah it's ugly at the moment but to get access to the high end talent then you need to be crap and for the first time in a long time, the club recognises this and are actively doing something about it. The least we can do is support the club this year during this shitshow of a season and default to 2021 to pass judgement on our progress under this regime.

#bigpicture.

Go Roos
 

Supreme_Chancellor

You’re the real hero
Dec 18, 2014
1,801
4,238
Victoria
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Tottenham, The Seven
Got to hold your nerve this year as it is a shocker but it's the best thing for the club in the long term.

All of our weaknesses are on display and Shaw isn't hiding away from it by continuing to play players, especially the youngsters, in positions that are in the coal face. Our backline contained McKay, Durdin and Bonar while our forward line was mostly kids.

We need to find out who has it as we already know with the older players. Sad to see Bonar go down as he was in our top 3 performers up until then. Great to see Larkey bag 4 with our midfield and LDU was impressive in his 3rd game back.

Goldy played less than 50% in the ruck, Higgins across half back and Shaw opted to try McKay and Durdin on their KPD's initially. Our spine most of the game contained McKay, Durdin, Dumont and Larkey so there definitely is some tough love happening at the moment from Shaw by giving more responsibility to the younger guys while playing senior players out of their normal positions like JMac, Higgins and Goldy.

We have a long injury list, trying to change to a new game plan which while looks haphazard and dysfunctional at the moment and years of topping up has brought us to this point. Yes we could paper over the cracks again and pretend we are a chance for a flag but judging Shaw on this year is complete nonsense. He and Brady have not even had a draft to demonstrate their imprimatur on this list yet we're calling for Shaw's head already.

What we are seeing is a team undergoing a transformation in an environment where the whole season has been compromised with Covid, Hubs, no VFL, reduced coaching team and long injury list. Yeah it's ugly at the moment but to get access to the high end talent then you need to be crap and for the first time in a long time, the club recognises this and are actively doing something about it. The least we can do is support the club this year during this shitshow of a season and default to 2021 to pass judgement on our progress under this regime.

#bigpicture.

Go Roos
I wish I was as optimistic as you. I suppose being a younger lad who was born less than a year after our last premiership has filled me with nothing but pain.
 

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Dirty_11

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 28, 2014
8,425
17,093
Beneath the Blue & White
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Shinboners
You know what, pragmatically, every team is allowed to have a really bad period and to our club’s credit we haven’t been wooden spooners since what the 70s or something?? I hate it as much as anyone but at least for once we might pick up some high end talent. Our club doesn’t really have the luxury of really bottoming out, so if it’s going to happen at least this is the year. The bottom line is that the teams that are up there now have bottomed out at some point and picked up good recruits. (Maybe not Geelong though....)
Unfortunately bottoming out isn't limited to one year. It could very well be 3-4 years at the bottom.

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Long Live the King

Club Legend
Feb 24, 2009
2,908
1,688
sydney
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Got to hold your nerve this year as it is a shocker but it's the best thing for the club in the long term.

All of our weaknesses are on display and Shaw isn't hiding away from it by continuing to play players, especially the youngsters, in positions that are in the coal face. Our backline contained McKay, Durdin and Bonar while our forward line was mostly kids.

We need to find out who has it as we already know with the older players. Sad to see Bonar go down as he was in our top 3 performers up until then. Great to see Larkey bag 4 with our midfield and LDU was impressive in his 3rd game back.

Goldy played less than 50% in the ruck, Higgins across half back and Shaw opted to try McKay and Durdin on their KPD's initially. Our spine most of the game contained McKay, Durdin, Dumont and Larkey so there definitely is some tough love happening at the moment from Shaw by giving more responsibility to the younger guys while playing senior players out of their normal positions like JMac, Higgins and Goldy.

We have a long injury list, trying to change to a new game plan which while looks haphazard and dysfunctional at the moment and years of topping up has brought us to this point. Yes we could paper over the cracks again and pretend we are a chance for a flag but judging Shaw on this year is complete nonsense. He and Brady have not even had a draft to demonstrate their imprimatur on this list yet we're calling for Shaw's head already.

What we are seeing is a team undergoing a transformation in an environment where the whole season has been compromised with Covid, Hubs, no VFL, reduced coaching team and long injury list. Yeah it's ugly at the moment but to get access to the high end talent then you need to be crap and for the first time in a long time, the club recognises this and are actively doing something about it. The least we can do is support the club this year during this shitshow of a season and default to 2021 to pass judgement on our progress under this regime.

#bigpicture.

Go Roos
Totally Agree. The reality is our patchwork quilt approach over the past decade has probably positioned us better off field than on. Shaw and the board now need to bite the bullet and focus on the core players that will drive us forward, leverage those that provide currency and delist those that dont. The club now needs to make a statement that doesnt apologise for poor performance but outlines its strategy of building from a solid base with an expectation of mid term pain for long term you know what.
 

Uncle_Leo

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 15, 2002
9,562
8,940
Arden Street
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Arsenal, Clippers
Our biggest problem for 10 years has been player development, blokes just don’t get any better and continue to be played.

How many players who played yesterday wouldn’t get a game at other clubs? Plenty

Our list management is just a disgrace

How many years on a list do guys like Durdin, Garner, McKay get? Just a free pay check for doing nothing. Even Mason Wood who has at least shown something at senior level shouldn’t be on the list.

As for Ben Jacobs, well who even knows what’s happened there.

We aren’t a charity, and yes it’s sad if nice blokes get a lot of injuries but it shouldn’t be at the clubs expense.
 

king of the road

Premium Gold
Aug 17, 2009
1,333
3,136
Around
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Totally Agree. The reality is our patchwork quilt approach over the past decade has probably positioned us better off field than on. Shaw and the board now need to bite the bullet and focus on the core players that will drive us forward, leverage those that provide currency and delist those that dont. The club now needs to make a statement that doesnt apologise for poor performance but outlines its strategy of building from a solid base with an expectation of mid term pain for long term you know what.
Didn’t the president do that a couple of weeks ago?
 

shintemaster

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 24, 2002
15,496
27,055
Ponderama
AFL Club
North Melbourne
How can people say we were tanking last night ?

wasn’t it our best interest to beat Melbourne and carry on with the tank after last night ?

Or .Are we really that sh*te?
We're not tanking.

We have a massive injury list matched with a list with big holes in it.
We're intentionally giving the depth players - and a list of around ~20 out of contract players - a genuine sifting to make some calls end of year.
We traded into the 2020 draft knowing it would delay the rebuild but also knowing that Rawlings couldn't be involved in 2019 and we needed time under a different coach to assess players on their merits.
While it made for great laughs in the death ride thread let's be honest, us pinching one 8 point game from Melbourne was never going to massively change our draft haul.
 

Cool Kangas

Premiership Player
Jun 2, 2010
3,166
2,795
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Got to hold your nerve this year as it is a shocker but it's the best thing for the club in the long term.

All of our weaknesses are on display and Shaw isn't hiding away from it by continuing to play players, especially the youngsters, in positions that are in the coal face. Our backline contained McKay, Durdin and Bonar while our forward line was mostly kids.

We need to find out who has it as we already know with the older players. Sad to see Bonar go down as he was in our top 3 performers up until then. Great to see Larkey bag 4 with our midfield and LDU was impressive in his 3rd game back.

Goldy played less than 50% in the ruck, Higgins across half back and Shaw opted to try McKay and Durdin on their KPD's initially. Our spine most of the game contained McKay, Durdin, Dumont and Larkey so there definitely is some tough love happening at the moment from Shaw by giving more responsibility to the younger guys while playing senior players out of their normal positions like JMac, Higgins and Goldy.

We have a long injury list, trying to change to a new game plan which while looks haphazard and dysfunctional at the moment and years of topping up has brought us to this point. Yes we could paper over the cracks again and pretend we are a chance for a flag but judging Shaw on this year is complete nonsense. He and Brady have not even had a draft to demonstrate their imprimatur on this list yet we're calling for Shaw's head already.

What we are seeing is a team undergoing a transformation in an environment where the whole season has been compromised with Covid, Hubs, no VFL, reduced coaching team and long injury list. Yeah it's ugly at the moment but to get access to the high end talent then you need to be crap and for the first time in a long time, the club recognises this and are actively doing something about it. The least we can do is support the club this year during this shitshow of a season and default to 2021 to pass judgement on our progress under this regime.

#bigpicture.

Go Roos
Great post
 

The Anvil

Team Captain
Oct 5, 2004
324
671
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Totally agree and there’s a few more to add to that list, which is why we need to stop playing Atley, JMac, Hall, Walker, and probably a few others asap. Otherwise you get the Durdin and BMac situation of 5 years on the list and 20 games to their name


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Was happy with Walker early on but if we knew the season would play out like this you’d have not picked him up and played Durdin and BMac all season.


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Gasometer

TheBrownDog
Mar 14, 2002
51,379
62,185
Gasometer Wing
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Kangaroos
Honestly, screw game plans. Biggest furphy in football.

You know what is the biggest challenge in any sport? The voice in your head. The negative voice that says no. The 50 year old bigfooty poster inside everyone that just wants to crap on everything you do. That's the guy pouring concrete in your boots as you try and chase your opponent when things aren't going your way. That voice is why most grand finals are boring - one team gets to wear the concrete boots and the other doesn't.

Ask any retired player, they say the same thing - football isn't a physical sport, it's a mental one. The physical stuff is easy by comparison.

Conquer that guy and the football world is your oyster. Your game plans look amazing. It's why we beat Adelaide by 69 points exactly 8 days ago and lost to Melbourne by roughly the same margin tonight. One week ago we had confidence and tonight we didn't. Kinda happens when your team is built around a bunch of kids, after all. Tonight we ran out of puff, everything fell apart and the blue and red flat track bullies do what they do best, which is why Melbourne's current upside is 9th.

They're not going anywhere based on what I saw tonight. They are right where we were circa 2015 - sure we might have snuck into the bottom half of the 8, sure we snagged a few finals wins, but no-one in their right mind thought we were a serious contender. And hell yeah we beat teams full of kids. We were pretty good at that. Woo ******* hoo.

Confidence is why Richmond went from being the biggest football butchers going around to the most skilled team in the comp. They're the same bunch of guys but somewhere along the line they started believing in themselves. They barely have a game plan, they just rely on pressure (which is a confidence thing) and self-belief to win games. It's why Geelong 2007 went from underachieving to destroying. Same guys, different outlook. They barely had a game plan. Bomber was so bereft of needing a game plan that he ate sandwiches. North in the 90s? Zero game plan. Just bomb it to Carey and watch him perform miracles. Which worked because he was the most confident mofo in football history and made the team walk taller as a result.

Screw game plans. Give me 22 blokes who believe in themselves and each other and I'll point them in the vague direction of the ground and say "go". That's all it takes. The most important thing a coach can do isn't to devise game plans, it's to get inside the heads of 20 something year old men and make them believe in themselves. Which is harder than it sounds. On that note - RIP Kanga Kennedy.

I'll leave other people to b*tch and moan about things they can't control. It's basically all this forum is any more. Miserable middle aged men having a sook.

Me? Best season in years. We desperately needed to transition and experiment and we're actually doing it.
Fact check- ah not, miserable, “Grumpy”

I will find my own way out, ta, thanks
 

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