Autopsy Shameful game V Dees - tell it like it is right here.

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shintemaster

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 24, 2002
15,496
27,055
Ponderama
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Was happy with Walker early on but if we knew the season would play out like this you’d have not picked him up and played Durdin and BMac all season.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Nah. Still think he's a good pickup. Good value, cheap and having a solid season with a good 3-4 minimum left in him. Based on yesterday and the weight of evidence Durdin won't be there longterm. Walker will be solid cover while we transition out Tarrant and Daw over the next few years. McKay looks solid enough to be at the least a journeyman backman at the moment. Actually think he'll be good in that CHB floating role if he can continue to improve at this rate.
 

Snake_Baker

L'enfant terrible
Suspended
Apr 24, 2013
66,245
125,261
inside your head
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
The Unicornia Reactants
This is what it feels like with a rebuild.
We've not done it before.
1971 (Grieg/Schimmelbusch/Montgomery, etc), 1980 (Furey/Kelly/Jonas, etc.), 1988 (Ceocker/Scholl/Stevens/Schwass, etc.), 2008 (Ziebell/Wright/Hansen/Goldstein, etc.), 2016.

It's the continuation of 2016, and from that perspective it's shaping as the most enduring one yet.
 

Merlin007

Team Captain
Jun 7, 2019
404
964
AFL Club
North Melbourne
So I've had a good sleep to try and forget the early evening nightmare, and in the calmer light of a pleasant winter's morning, what strikes me is the incoherence of the club's strategy.

If we take that strategy at two levels, we have a long term or grand strategy, which is transformational - new football manager, new coach, new list manager and a commitment to a serious rebuild at the draft (as witnessed by the deferral of the 2019 first pick to 2020 to give that new team something to work with).

Then we have the operational strategy, which we can define as the kind of game to game development model for this year and another couple. At this level, things have obviously got so complicated they would challenge any coaching group - disrupted season, relocation and the longest injury list in the league.

Still and all, they get paid to meet those challenges, so what is the relationship between the long term and operational levels of the club's strategy?

The most direct connection between those two things was the Melbourne game. Forget tinkering with games plans, giving blokes games to see whether they are worth a contract, playing people out of position - do all of that in other games, just win the Melbourne game to contribute to the long term strategy by dragging back their draft pick.

So then we come to the inconvenient positioning of that game as the third game in eight days, and a travel schedule to put a cherry on top.

Very tough, in any objective analysis.

But, once again, these people are spending my money, so at least give me hope that there's a plan that gives some prospect of success.

I won't bother with who played and/or was rested in the lead up games vs Adelaide and Geelong, what matters is the 22 who went out against Melbourne.

And what do we find? Sam Durdin gets a game, seemingly to see whether he's worth a contract, and the result is 7 talls without available match-ups, resulting in the ludicrous sight of Todd Goldstein, one of the competition's leading ruckmen, lining up on the wing at centre bounces.

Then when the opposition midfielders are clearly the biggest threat, given their own 'outs', we have one of our few remaining quality midfielders, playing everywhere BUT in the midfield, leaving Higgins to have absolutely no influence on the game in a back and then a forward pocket.

To describe this as shambolic incompetence is to dignify the thinking of those responsible
 
Last edited:

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The Anvil

Team Captain
Oct 5, 2004
324
671
AFL Club
North Melbourne
One thing I’ve noticed, is that no one moves to create options upfield.

Players just standing waiting for the long kick to a stationary target.

It’s head against brick wall sh*t.
We’ve got one young kid with any serious wheels to get away from his man and provide an option.

Makes one realize what Turner actually did for us offensively.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Snake_Baker

L'enfant terrible
Suspended
Apr 24, 2013
66,245
125,261
inside your head
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
The Unicornia Reactants
Seen some very dark days as a lad. Bertie and a coupla others will testify.
We have the basics. Scott, Larkey, LDU, Jy, Taylor, Hayden. Rhyce / Brady just needs to tinker and polish.
This down patch this season is as bad as we have seen since 1972, and that's actually a testament to the club considering it's been 48 years.

I am in no way stating that the list is in as bad a shape as the pessimistic would have us believe, and I believe that we can play finals as soon as next year with close to our full compliment of players.

My major concern is the current game plan strategy and how that will impact on the rebuild. Is it really the best path for us to take right now?
 

Hojuman

첫 번째 남자 대 남자
May 20, 2012
11,460
30,025
Seoul
AFL Club
North Melbourne
This down patch this season is as bad as we have seen since 1972, and that's actually a testament to the club considering it's been 48 years.

I am in no way stating that the list is in as bad a shape as the pessimistic would have us believe, and I believe that we can play finals as soon as next year with close to our full compliment of players.

My major concern is the current game plan strategy and how that will impact on the rebuild. Is it really the best path for us to take right now?


Hopefully Rhyce just taking the p**s.

I mean if we had won games, finished 8th. Is a 74 point hiding from Port, West Coast or Brisbane / Geelong any better ? Here North, pick 9 & 10.
 

Snake_Baker

L'enfant terrible
Suspended
Apr 24, 2013
66,245
125,261
inside your head
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Hopefully Rhyce just taking the p**s.

I mean if we had won games, finished 8th. Is a 74 point hiding from Port, West Coast or Brisbane / Geelong any better ? Here North, pick 9 & 10.
If this airy fairy stuff continues, then we could be years away from playing finals. The handball to kick ratio was the real killer for me (1.02). There was FAR too much non essential over finessing with the ball, and we're a list that should focus in terms of distance, not possession.

The "bang it down the line" critics can piss & moan all they like, but we're a far more effective side when we play that way.

I mean, we had 7 talls for fu**s sake...........and we go handball happy?!
 

shintemaster

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 24, 2002
15,496
27,055
Ponderama
AFL Club
North Melbourne
The "bang it down the line" critics can piss & moan all they like, but we're a far more effective side when we play that way.
When we play that way with speed, yes. I think fair enough to bemoan the recent down the line approach when it appears to be the last option after getting closed down.
 

Snake_Baker

L'enfant terrible
Suspended
Apr 24, 2013
66,245
125,261
inside your head
AFL Club
North Melbourne
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Hopefully Rhyce just taking the p**s.

I mean if we had won games, finished 8th. Is a 74 point hiding from Port, West Coast or Brisbane / Geelong any better ? Here North, pick 9 & 10.
Yes, but this was Melbourne and they are a fringe top 8 side.

Based on the Bulldogs & Richmond games, we have some absolute wallopings coming up. We'll end up with a finishing percentage in the 70's, or even the 60's.
 

guapo

Team Captain
Aug 24, 2005
356
511
fitzroy
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Kangaroos
Got to hold your nerve this year as it is a shocker but it's the best thing for the club in the long term.

All of our weaknesses are on display and Shaw isn't hiding away from it by continuing to play players, especially the youngsters, in positions that are in the coal face. Our backline contained McKay, Durdin and Bonar while our forward line was mostly kids.

We need to find out who has it as we already know with the older players. Sad to see Bonar go down as he was in our top 3 performers up until then. Great to see Larkey bag 4 with our midfield and LDU was impressive in his 3rd game back.

Goldy played less than 50% in the ruck, Higgins across half back and Shaw opted to try McKay and Durdin on their KPD's initially. Our spine most of the game contained McKay, Durdin, Dumont and Larkey so there definitely is some tough love happening at the moment from Shaw by giving more responsibility to the younger guys while playing senior players out of their normal positions like JMac, Higgins and Goldy.

We have a long injury list, trying to change to a new game plan which while looks haphazard and dysfunctional at the moment and years of topping up has brought us to this point. Yes we could paper over the cracks again and pretend we are a chance for a flag but judging Shaw on this year is complete nonsense. He and Brady have not even had a draft to demonstrate their imprimatur on this list yet we're calling for Shaw's head already.

What we are seeing is a team undergoing a transformation in an environment where the whole season has been compromised with Covid, Hubs, no VFL, reduced coaching team and long injury list. Yeah it's ugly at the moment but to get access to the high end talent then you need to be crap and for the first time in a long time, the club recognises this and are actively doing something about it. The least we can do is support the club this year during this shitshow of a season and default to 2021 to pass judgement on our progress under this regime.

#bigpicture.

Go Roos
Excellent post, that’s precisely what is happening
 

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Kanga Glory

Premium Platinum
Nov 1, 2010
3,515
7,480
arden st
AFL Club
North Melbourne
We all ride the good games and get down on the bad games but there is no doubt Rhyce and Brady know where we are at and what is needed to get there and who will be on the ship to take us there.
Crap performances like last night just highlight the need for change.
We need to take our medicine and try and get through the next couple of years and see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I am emotionally involved every day every week every month every year.
At last we have people in place who will make the hard decisions to give us supporters a chance at success. We will not have success every year but we must have some patience.
I saw a look on Rhyce’s face that tells me he doesn’t cope too much sh*t and would give a fair honest opinion to the players.
Get upset but support rather than sack everyone.
 

guapo

Team Captain
Aug 24, 2005
356
511
fitzroy
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Kangaroos
So I've had a good sleep to try and forget the early evening nightmare, and in the calmer light of a pleasant winter's morning, what strikes me is the incoherence of the club's strategy.

If we take that strategy at two levels, we have a long term or grand strategy, which is transformational - new football manager, new coach, new list manager and a commitment to a serious rebuilt at the draft (as witnessed by the deferral of the 2019 first pick to 2020 to give that new team something to work with).

Then we have the operational strategy, which we can define the kind of game to game development model for this year and another couple. At this level, things have obviously got so complicated they would challenge any coaching group - disrupted season, relocation and the longest injury list in the league.

Still and all, they get paid to meet those challenges, so what is the relationship between the long term and operational levels of the club's strategy?

The most direct connection between those two things was the Melbourne game. Forget tinkering with games plans, giving blokes games to see whether they are worth a contract, playing people out of position - do all of in other games, just win the Melbourne game to contribute to the long term strategy by dragging back their draft pick.

So then we come to the inconvenient positioning of that game as the third game in eight days, and a travel schedule to put a cherry on top.

Very tough, in any objective analysis.

But, once again, these people are spending my money, so at least give me hope that there's a plan that gives some prospect of success.

I won't bother with who played and/or was rested in the lead up games vs Adelaide and Geelong, what matters is the 22 who went out against Melbourne.

And what do we find? Sam Durdin gets a game, seemingly to see whether he's worth a contract, and the result is 7 talls without available match-ups, resulting in the ludicrous sight of Todd Goldstein, one of the competition's leading ruckmen, lining up on the wing at centre bounces.

Then when the opposition midfielders are clearly the biggest threat, given their own 'outs', we have one of our few remaining quality midfielders, playing everywhere BUT in the midfield, leaving Higgins to have absolutely no influence on the game in a back and then a forward pocket.

To describe this as shambolic incompetence is to dignify the thinking of those responsible
Goldy on the wing does look ridiculous, but I’d say he is sore from the amount of centre square contested work he has done this year and not taking the centre bounce reduces the impact of bodies crashing him. He did take the ruck work around the ground where is is less impactful
 

Shermanator

Didn't get Luke Jackson NMFC :(
Mar 23, 2001
9,566
23,883
Inside Ben Brown’s hair
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Wildcats/Pacers/Chelsea/Scorchers
My worry is that we will see a exodus of young players that will want out. Playing like rubbish and SEEMING rudderless could have the kids looking over the fence.
Won't happen mate.

Carlton and Melbourne have sucked for 20 years and how many young players have they lost?.. The supercrab Jack Watts is about all i can think of and look where that's gotten him, probably delisted at the end of the year..

Also take into account the salary affects COVID will play into the future and most young blokes will content with just having a contract, regardless, if they don't want to play for us then bye-bye.
 

Hojuman

첫 번째 남자 대 남자
May 20, 2012
11,460
30,025
Seoul
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Yes, but this was Melbourne and they are a fringe top 8 side.

Based on the Bulldogs & Richmond games, we have some absolute wallopings coming up. We'll end up with a finishing percentage in the 70's, or even the 60's.


Pretend l'm your mum and you are 7 years old Snake; " l know it tastes bad, but the dr. says you have to take it if you want to get better. You want to take it when your father gets home ? No ? That's a boy, head back. Good boy. Now that wasn't so hard was it " ?
 

ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
18,628
35,451
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Mate, almost EVERY coach in the league has had to deal with all that this year, it's not exclusive to only ours.

Having said that, I'll admit that all the first year coaches in Shaw, Teague, Longmuir, Nicks, are doing it tougher than most.
Honestly I think you are going early on Shaw.

Last year and in his first two games this year we consistently did things Scott was unable to do. Come back to win, hold it leads then smash teams (that weren't Carlton), not sh*t the bed when we had a lead. He made changes during games that brought results.

It wasn't perfect but it wasn't sh*t either.

Effectively changing footy departments twice in less than six months is an issue that other clubs haven't had to deal with. The injury list is a problem as well. And I don't see how Shaw bears responsibility because even if the issues are related to upping the training load too much .... upping the training load is something we probably had to do cos we clearly had issues at the end of games where we had early leads. (Ie it might not be all the mental side of the game or coaching.)

There are disturbing signs but also good ones. His willingness to experiment on field and some of the discipline stuff for example. His honesty in that latest presser.

I'm prepared to let him see the season out and go again next year.
 

goalieboy82

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 28, 2007
5,795
9,701
USA
AFL Club
North Melbourne
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North Fairfax Kangaroos
Woke up this morning after a surprisingly good sleep. Nothings changed. We are still an embarrassingly bad team.
and the sun will still rise in the East, water will wet too and the sky will still blue (but not in Los Angeles, it will be will it will still be brown).
 

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