Shane O'bree on SEN

[dingo_1983]

Did anyone hear Cheesy on SEN yesterday?

He said the club were trying to emulate the Geelong model. Now which Geelong side they are trying to replicate I'm not too sure on. Must be the local U14 side because we drafted 2 midfielders that are 180cm & 70kgs. How on earth are they going to compete with Geelongs 190cm/90kg midfielders?

It kind of feels that the club is going through another "rebuilding" stage because we keep drafting kids that need years to grow into their bodies such as Dick, Barham, Blight, Sidebottom, now Thomas & Sinclair. Even Daisy needs to fill out & he's into his 5th year.

 

[TradeDraft]

Did anyone hear Cheesy on SEN yesterday?

He said the club were trying to emulate the Geelong model. Now which Geelong side they are trying to replicate I'm not too sure on. Must be the local U14 side because we drafted 2 midfielders that are 180cm & 70kgs. How on earth are they going to compete with Geelongs 190cm/90kg midfielders?

It kind of feels that the club is going through another "rebuilding" stage because we keep drafting kids that need years to grow into their bodies such as Dick, Barham, Blight, Sidebottom, now Thomas & Sinclair. Even Daisy needs to fill out & he's into his 5th year.

I say building a Side Similar to Geelong.


TV Interview Here:
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16443934&postcount=33

 

[MAGP1ES]

I say building a Side Similar to Geelong.


TV Interview Here:
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16443934&postcount=33

Thanks for the link.

 

[TradeDraft]

Thanks for the link.

My Pleasure

 

[shawthing09]

Did anyone hear Cheesy on SEN yesterday?

He said the club were trying to emulate the Geelong model. Now which Geelong side they are trying to replicate I'm not too sure on. Must be the local U14 side because we drafted 2 midfielders that are 180cm & 70kgs. How on earth are they going to compete with Geelongs 190cm/90kg midfielders?

It kind of feels that the club is going through another "rebuilding" stage because we keep drafting kids that need years to grow into their bodies such as Dick, Barham, Blight, Sidebottom, now Thomas & Sinclair. Even Daisy needs to fill out & he's into his 5th year.

Geelong didn't get the way they are by drafting ready made kids. Guys like Bartel, Ablett etc all took time. It is no where near like a rebuilding stage as we are in the top bracket. We just traded used our first 3 rounds of the draft on 2 senior players Jolly and Ball? If anything proof of the fact that we aren't in a rebuilding phase is the amount of quality young players who are fighting to break into the best 22.

What do you want to draft the kid who is physically biggest. Fact is regardless of size or shape Thomas and Sinclair are extremely unlikely to be good enough to be in the best 22 in the next year or so anyway. In the time that they are not in the side they will develop.

Sidebottom is a tad small but was clearly the best avalible at his pick. Beams on the other hand is a decent size and shape for a first year player, as was J-mac at the time of drafting.

 

[mattys123]

It kind of feels that the club is going through another "rebuilding" stage because we keep drafting kids that need years to grow into their bodies such as Dick, Barham, Blight, Sidebottom, now Thomas & Sinclair. Even Daisy needs to fill out & he's into his 5th year.

I have never thought that.

Sidebottom needed one year, he is there now, he proved that in the finals. Dick is never going to get any bigger, he is going to play at his size. Oh, and we just recruited Ball, Jolly and Buckley, all mature aged recruits.

No where in this off season in particular have I put the words "rebuilding" and "Collingwood" together as relative terms.

 

[Dawson]

Did anyone hear Cheesy on SEN yesterday?

He said the club were trying to emulate the Geelong model. Now which Geelong side they are trying to replicate I'm not too sure on. Must be the local U14 side because we drafted 2 midfielders that are 180cm & 70kgs. How on earth are they going to compete with Geelongs 190cm/90kg midfielders?

It kind of feels that the club is going through another "rebuilding" stage because we keep drafting kids that need years to grow into their bodies such as Dick, Barham, Blight, Sidebottom, now Thomas & Sinclair. Even Daisy needs to fill out & he's into his 5th year.

Did you notice we drafted Jolly and Ball?

 

[DaisysHair]

Did you notice we drafted Jolly and Ball?

Exactly Dawson's Creek, not rebuilding one iota...full steam ahead for the now , let's get a flag for f***s sake, I'll do anything.

 

[dingo_1983]

Yes I did notice.

I also noticed that we picked up Leigh Brown & Anthony Corrie last year.

1. Brown is a stop gap player
2. Corrie was compensation to off load Shaw
3. Jolly is 10 years too late
4. Luke Ball has maybe 3-4 decent years left

All are reactive solutions/selections to on going problems we've had for years.

Its going to take more than Brown providing "protection" to Collingwood 6 footers for another 2 years. Jolly assisting Fraser when his knee is already ruined & Ball giving O'Bree a chop out with the hard ball.

Its a heavy load while we wait for these kids to come on. We can't beat up on the minnows forever, eventually we will need to beat the bigger stronger sides in Geelong, Hawthorn & St Kilda.

 

[Pie eyed]

Did anyone hear Cheesy on SEN yesterday?

He said the club were trying to emulate the Geelong model. Now which Geelong side they are trying to replicate I'm not too sure on. Must be the local U14 side because we drafted 2 midfielders that are 180cm & 70kgs. How on earth are they going to compete with Geelongs 190cm/90kg midfielders?

It kind of feels that the club is going through another "rebuilding" stage because we keep drafting kids that need years to grow into their bodies such as Dick, Barham, Blight, Sidebottom, now Thomas & Sinclair. Even Daisy needs to fill out & he's into his 5th year.

Apparently there is some "secret" store of 90kg, ready to dominate mids which the club is either not aware off or is too silly to draw from????

 

[dingo_1983]

Apparently there is some "secret" store of 90kg, ready to dominate mids which the club is either not aware off or is too silly to draw from????

How about the VFL, SANFL or the WAFL?

You can't keep picking up players that are 180cm & 70kg and expect them to compete week in week out. The game is evolving.

Michael Barlow tore us a new one in a game a against Werribee this year. He's a 190cm midfielder. Toby Pinwall for Port Melbourne is one of the best clearance players going in the VFL. I'm sure there's guys in other state leagues who are 21-22 & you don't need to wait for them grow into their bodies & have already played against men.

 

[Pie eyed]

How about the VFL, SANFL or the WAFL?

You can't keep picking up players that are 180cm & 70kg and expect them to compete week in week out. The game is evolving.

Michael Barlow tore us a new one in a game a against Werribee this year. He's a 190cm midfielder. Toby Pinwall for Port Melbourne is one of the best clearance players going in the VFL. I'm sure there's guys in other state leagues who are 21-22 & you don't need to wait for them grow into their bodies & have already played against men.

and they are all still in the VFL, SANFL and WAFL?

Why? Why have no other clubs picked them up?

You know how the draft works don't you.

30 years ago you could identify a player and then eventually get him at your club fairly easily...not anymore.

If they are any good they get picked up as stem cells.

 

[Scodog10]

I think you've misconstrued what o'bree had to say dingo_1983. We have tried to get inside midfielders onto the list over the past few years which over the past few drafts has included Ball, Beams, Sidebottom, Mcarthy, Thomas and Blair which is how we are trying to emulate Geelong. From there you compare to the Geelong midfielders who are predominantly accumulators of the ball and are most effective as inside players which are Selwood, Bartel, Ling, Corey and of course the freak Ablett. The secret to their game is fast ball movement not players with lots of speed they dish the ball out to receivers such as Enright, Mackie and Wojinski or in our case Blight, Thomas and Didak. Also to say that these players we've drafted are underdeveloped is a furphy as id say at least 3 maybe 4 of them will get regular senior action next year.

I do have one problem with obree's comparison with Geelong, which is that our game plans are completely different and imo ours needs to be modified if we are to beat them. Because what we're going at them with atm just isn't working.

 

[wicksy]

Dingo, if you were a kicking style, I reckon you'd be the drop kick!

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

I do have one problem with obree's comparison with Geelong, which is that our game plans are completely different and imo ours needs to be modified if we are to beat them. Because what we're going at them with atm just isn't working.

Disagree completely. Geelong have beaten us the times they have because they were better than us and it had nothing to do with gameplan. What we do against Geelong does work and the preliminary final had nothing to do with incorrect game plan; our boys were simply overawed. Take that game and the one where when we belted them in early 2008 out and our last 6-8 games against Geelong (probably since we smashed them by 100 points in 2006) have all been very even or at least competitive games. The teams that our gameplan doesn't work against are Hawthorn and Carlton until we broke them open in the second game this year.

 

[loki04]

Whats funny is Geelong were saying the same thing about emulating Brisbane back in 03/04.

 

[DaVe86]

You guys are reading too far into it.


We are not trying to replicate Geelong's team.

We are not trying to replicate Geelong's gameplan

We are not trying to beat Geelong at their own game.




What we are trying to replicate is the fact that Geelong put 5 years of development into their players. They gave them 5 pre-seasons together. They made finals a few times in a row. They got 100 games into all their core players.

These guys did 5 pre-seasons together. They all stuck together. No one walked out of the club who was core to the group.





That is what we are trying to replicate. How we go about doing this will be in a uniquely Collingwood way.

But the fact is that experience tends to win Grand Finals. Time together as a group tends to win Grand Finals. Pre-seasons and miles in the legs wins Grand Finals.



But Hawthorn and Saints have had success recycling players. So I think we take parts of their methodologies as well. But the core strategy is developing a list that has played together for 5+ seasons.



Pendlebury and Thomas go into their 5th season
Reid, Brown, Dawes and Goldsack 4th

Harry, Cloke and Maxwell have had 5+ years in the system

Medhurst goes into his 4th season at the club.


And they have played alongside the more seasoned guys like Swan, Davis, Didak, O'Bree for all this time.


So we have a core group of players who have played around 5 years together. They have all travelled to Arizona multiple times together. They know each others games.


So adding Jolly and Ball??? A wise move. We get experienced players who have 5 years left in them who have played a lot of games. They'll have immediate impact. Geelong did not do this, but Hawks did with Dew and Guerra.


It is also important to quickly get games into guys like Sidebottom and Beams who are clearly part of the core group in the future. Getting them to 50 games fast is key.




That my friends is what O'Bree is talking about. We copy no one, but it is worthwhile noting a proven technique which has helped Geelong to 2 flags.

 

[DWil6]

Nicely summed up, Dave.

 

[Old Spice]

I think Dave gobled that one up.

 

[Dylz48]

I think our game plan does need to be tweaked a little though because a major flaw in our game plan is that IMO we need to be at 100% intensity for it to be effective.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

What do you want to draft the kid who is physically biggest.

Like Luke Shackelton and David King?

 

[loki04]

I think our game plan does need to be tweaked a little though because a major flaw in our game plan is that IMO we need to be at 100% intensity for it to be effective.

Spot on, against the better teams our game plan looks horrid and comes undone.

 

[Mickaman]

I have never thought that.

Sidebottom needed one year, he is there now, he proved that in the finals. Dick is never going to get any bigger, he is going to play at his size. Oh, and we just recruited Ball, Jolly and Buckley, all mature aged recruits.

No where in this off season in particular have I put the words "rebuilding" and "Collingwood" together as relative terms.

Agree.