Shattered, onto 2020. Where now?

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FAIRANDBALANCED said:
Not a lot of young talent coming through? We have Stephenson, DeGoey, Moore, Maynard as proven young stars, we have Grundy, Crisp, Treloar, Adams, Langdon, Elliot as great players in their prime, we have good experience guns in Pendles, Sidebottom, Howe and potentially Beams.

Quaynor, Sier and Murphy have potential and role players like Mihocek, Thomas, Roughead are as a good a quality as any team has. Cox might have a big 2020.

It would be great if we could snag speed and class in the draft and look for some key position support, but people saying we just need to get rid of guys like Sidebottom have no idea.

Our list is as good as any in the comp.
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Pound for pound GWS has more talent. I think we are close to Richmond and Eagles.

Then there are up and comers that could improve dramatically with their recent and near first round picks which will put them shortly behind or in front of us.

List is only an ingredient. Not the recipe.


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No SPIN said:
Noble kicked a point from 50 made the distance comfortably. Sidey, Moore and Phillips can also kick from 50.
You’re right with Cox.
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Sidey used to kick goals from outside fifty, Moorey kicks low darts but doesn't seem to get great distance and Noble pulled that kick and almost ran into the man on the mark in his effort to make the distance.
 
Collingwoodity said:
Pound for pound GWS has more talent. I think we are close to Richmond and Eagles.

Then there are up and comers that could improve dramatically with their recent and near first round picks which will put them shortly behind or in front of us.

List is only an ingredient. Not the recipe.


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Pound for pound, I reckon we have more talent, but they're bigger and heavier than us, so overall they probably have more.
 

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Really? Wow. Zac Williams is like their 7th best mid and he was the best mid on the ground yesterday out of all of the mids including ours.

They have triple the amount of AFL standard kpps. The only position we are stronger is ruck and small/medium forwards imo.


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Collingwoodity said:
Really? Wow. Zac Williams is like their 7th best mid and he was the best mid on the ground yesterday out of all of the mids including ours.

They have triple the amount of AFL standard kpps. The only position we are stronger is ruck and small/medium forwards imo.


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Haynes and Williams are fantastic players, but I'd take the rest of our defence over theirs.

They do have a great list though and should be better than they are.
 
dook said:
Agree about the age but they had a soft draw this year and a superb run without injuries. It will be very interesting to see how they go next year.
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Correct on both counts. However, I expect they will improve considerably over the next two years but won’t have a soft draw and may not be as fortunate with injuries.
 
Our Coach has become some kind of media messiah, accolades from all over the place. I prefer he spends his 10% of weekly media time at the club, stop talking about love and start talking about beating up oppo with no apologies and no pony tails, metaphorically speaking.

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queensberryrules said:
Our Coach has become some kind of media messiah, accolades from all over the place. I prefer he spends his 10% of weekly media time at the club, stop talking about love and start talking about beating up oppo with no apologies and no pony tails, metaphorically speaking.

On SM-G955F using BigFooty.com mobile app
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Once upon a time in junior footy we played a team who's best player by a mile had a pony tail. Our coach (who is now a highly successful afl coach) specifically told three of us to give it a pull every time we had a chance. We did and won by 169 points.
 
THATSGOLD said:
This group is done. Time for some new players . 2020 might be a bit harder. Tougher draw. No real draft picks.
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It's not so easy, you can't just revitalise a list overnight. There will be about 6 changes, mainly players going out who had little to no impact on the senior team this season, or retirees whose impact has dwindled. Then you will get 1 or 2 players who might be good enough to be able to come in in their first season through the draft and play immediately, usually only high draft picks. Others will have to do an apprenticeship in the two's. And you might do one or two trades that have an impact on the senior team.

So realistically you can only introduce 3-4 regular senior players to a team in one year at maximum who will have a positive impact. You can't replace half the team in one year. Teams gradually evolve. It will take about 5 years before this team looks totally different and a new era comes into play. In the meantime, we have to work with what we've got.
 

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sirlothie said:
So realistically you can only introduce 3-4 regular senior players to a team in one year at maximum who will have a positive impact. You can't replace half the team in one year. Teams gradually evolve. It will take about 5 years before this team looks totally different and a new era comes into play. In the meantime, we have to work with what we've got.
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Even though I agree pretty much with what you say there can be exceptions....

In 2009, Reid (2), Dawes (4), McCaffer (5), Ball (0), Jolly (0) and Blair (0) had played a combined 9 games for Collingwood, thats 1/3rd of a team and I'd argue that they had a positive impact on 2010....
 
As a supporter the pain start to heal over off season, as we hang on to every scrap of list management and draft news, some players will come, some will leave, etc, but by next March, I'll be desperately awaiting that first bounce...

We really need a consistent, powerful forward man. Everyone we've thrown up there this year has had shortcomings, namely a knack for utterly disappearing from games. This final was not the first game that happened.
 
BIGNEDKELLY said:
Even though I agree pretty much with what you say there can be exceptions....

In 2009, Reid (2), Dawes (4), McCaffer (5), Ball (0), Jolly (0) and Blair (0) had played a combined 9 games for Collingwood, thats 1/3rd of a team and I'd argue that they had a positive impact on 2010....
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I suppose, thats the kind of luck you need to significantly improve and become premiership calibre I guess. 2010 was also the culmination of a few years of good drafting and adding a couple of very good players every year for a few years prior like Pendles/Thomas, Reid/Brown, Sidebottom/Beams all came in pairs while we still had the older core of rat pack guns.

If you want to have a bit of a sustained run you need to make hardly any list management errors over a long period and a good slice of injury luck and unfortunately we have made a couple of blues and had bad injury luck so that is probably all that stopped us not quite getting there.

You can't afford to get much wrong at all, it's such a tight competition. We need to play all our cards right again this off season to find improvement to go past being narrow losers.
 
jmac70 said:
Totally disagree. We have a quality list and will be in back in contention next season. In fact, I reckon we will win it.
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I think you've said that every year since 2011 Jmac.

I guess a broken clock must eventually be right...

2020 is our last roll of the dice with this group, because our core of players under 23 is simply no where near as good as a lot of other teams. The drop is coming soon.
 
Ulahoopski said:
Think it's pretty clear that we need a gun CHF. Happy otherwise.
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Don’t use the ‘H’ word! We all have to be miserable that we have this club to follow.
 
For 2019:
  • Not start the season as flag favourites. As others have pointed out, we dont do 'favouritism' well
  • Improve our injury profile by delisting the perennially injured and replacing them with healthy footballers. Brutal but has to happen (Reid, Broomy, Dunn, Wells already gone). Jamie will survive the cull.
  • Actually see Murphy and Kelly play (this is where luck comes in)
  • Get healthy years out of Langdon and JDG (luck again)
  • Get much better years out of Sier and WHE (nothing to do with luck)
  • See real and sustained improvement from Keane and Atu (most likely of the youngsters, but others might surprise)
  • Watch Tom Wilson transform into a senior footballer
  • Help Beams get back to playing footy
  • RECRUIT A TALENTED AND EXPERIENCED TALL MARKING FORWARD
 
MarkT2 said:
We were close this year and closer last year. Continuity is a hope. A better best 22 and better depth overcomes the reality of injuries, suspensions and form dips. We probably thought Sier would be a big player for us this year. It doesn't always pan out. Wills got his chance and took it. Is he good enough though?

WCE won the flag without Gaff and Natanbui among others. Richmond will probably win it this year without Rance. GWS beat us without 4 players that would walk into our side or any other.

It isn't continuity that cost us a GF berth or a flag. It's an inch of speed and class/skill.

Anyway, as you said, we'll agree to disagree.
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It's all relative. WCE had no Gaff and Nicnat, we had no Elliott, Dunn, Moore, Wells, Scharenberg and Treloar returned after a double hamstring injury.

Richmond essentially have had only Rance out of their best possible team for the past month. When they won it in 2017 they were even more blessed having their best 22 available.

Now I agree GWSs performance was outstanding yesterday, but it was a game we could have won and we played maybe 30 mins of good footy.
Vicky Park said:
For 2019:
  • Not start the season as flag favourites. As others have pointed out, we dont do 'favouritism' well
  • Improve our injury profile by delisting the perennially injured and replacing them with healthy footballers. Brutal but has to happen (Reid, Broomy, Dunn, Wells already gone). Jamie will survive the cull.
  • Actually see Murphy and Kelly play (this is where luck comes in)
  • Get healthy years out of Langdon and JDG (luck again)
  • Get much better years out of Sier and WHE (nothing to do with luck)
  • See real and sustained improvement from Keane and Atu (most likely of the youngsters, but others might surprise)
  • Watch Tom Wilson transform into a senior footballer
  • Help Beams get back to playing footy
  • RECRUIT A TALENTED AND EXPERIENCED TALL MARKING FORWARD
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I agree with all of that, but in reality how do we get a talented experienced marking forward when we already have a salary cap squeeze? Cox is the man. He is unique and I think a weapon. Reckon he will have a really solid 2020 after his body would have gotten a freshen up this year.
 
jmac70 said:
Don’t use the ‘H’ word! We all have to be miserable that we have this club to follow.
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It's been 48 years for me now and whilst you never really get used to the disappointment you tend to get over it much quicker the older you get. I was a shell after the game. Stood looking at the aftermath for a good 15 minutes before I left the mcg in zombie mode but after a few drinks and a meal with friends the pain subsided. Really thought I was witnessing a comeback for the ages. The positive is i dont have to go through the probability of getting pumped by ******* richmond in a GF again. 1990..2010...2020. Its all about the round years...000! Pies for premiers 2020!
 
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i think we need to bite the bullet if we want to chalenge for the 2020 premieship.
1. Decrease the midfeild load of Pendelbury Sidebottom , Pendels plays a Hodge like role in the back line.
Sidebottom in the forward line.
We need to make midfeilders of Stephenson and Degoey in my opinion, also hope one of the Brown brothers or Daicos steps up. Would also have Sier in the midfeild with Beams.
2. Elliot would then have an important role in the forward line, fine another tall forward to play with Cox, lunch cut Patton from Hawthorn.
 
dook said:
Agree about the age but they had a soft draw this year and a superb run without injuries. It will be very interesting to see how they go next year.
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That's my thinking. Although some teams seem to be more fortunate than others with injuries. Personally I think the draw is a furphy. Teams drawn to play Melb twice this year and Adelaide the year before were actually given an easy draw. There's always one shooting star every year
 
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