Shaz and freeman contracts

[Bucksboys]

You couldn't trade Freeman for Aish, that's why it matters. If he leaves now he's going at rock bottom value after we spent a premium pick to get him.

After the Beams deal they might throw Rockliff in

 

[Axl the great]

So what, both boys cop injuries early on in their careers and all of a sudden the talent they have is devalued? i don't get this, Shaz copped a knee and that happens and Freeman a shocking hammy injury, i would rather these long term one off injuries than both boys having different problems one after the other like Ben Reid, that would be a hell of a lot more worrying for mine.

For gods sake they are still babies in footy terms who have just copped some crap luck, I would trust that Hine got it right and all this talk of trading them is foolish IMO, especially for someone like Aish who looks like just another vanilla mid going around at the moment, these boys have a point of difference that we need to find out about.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Out of all the recruits I'm mostly worried about Freeman. I think he's the most likely to want to go home.

I see what you did there.

 

[NT.Thunder]

If the assumptions we're making are true then it's simply a gamble he's willing to take. Still doesn't really indicate that he values money above performing well, but neither does it discount it as a possibility. At the end of the day, I have nothing against people who place a higher worth on material items, so be it.

I agree, but what I do have a problem with is paying people above their output or value. IMO we have enough players that are making better money than they probably should but I guess they and their managers have done well.

 

[swoop42]

I'm not sure on this. I've read this a couple of times but surely a guy plagued with injury would be more interested in concentrating on just playing good football and not trying to inflate his price somewhat without even playing a senior game. I'm not sure I like this attitude if true.

Surely even if he plays a couple of AFL games it wouldn't inflate his price that much?

Could even backfire on him is he comes in and doesn't perform.

I'm with you.

Most young players are just happy to be given the opportunity of playing AFL football while others who haven't yet debuted late into there second season would be thrilled to just score another contract especially with injury concerns hanging over there head.

Petracca for instance has already re-signed.

While I hope both re-sign Freeman would be of value as the steak knife in the Treloar deal while Scharenberg should gain us a first round selection should he want to return to Adelaide so all is not lost.

Getting Treloar and another young key forward via the draft has appeal though Hine mightn't necessarily go that way.

 

[Bard]

I agree, but what I do have a problem with is paying people above their output or value. IMO we have enough players that are making better money than they probably should but I guess they and their managers have done well.

I agree, but that's the nature of the salary cap system the AFL have imposed, and not at all the fault of the players or managers (in most scenarios anyway). We're a middling club, and also a club with a lot of kids, however we're forced to pay 95% of the salary cap. At the end of the day a player like Goldsack/Blair has more bargaining power than Langdon or whomever and therefore will get a bigger chunk of the pie than they would get at a club in the top 6 or so. Then you look at the really poor clubs - the bottom 6 - and there'd be players who would struggle to get a game on most other lists getting decent $$. Also it's not like we're going to get outbid in regards to contract amount by other clubs with Scharenberg and Freeman, they'd only leave the club if they were desperate to a) go interstate, or b) make it to another club for whatever reason.

 

[Gone Critical]

So what, both boys cop injuries early on in their careers and all of a sudden the talent they have is devalued? i don't get this, Shaz copped a knee and that happens and Freeman a shocking hammy injury, i would rather these long term one off injuries than both boys having different problems one after the other like Ben Reid, that would be a hell of a lot more worrying for mine.

For gods sake they are still babies in footy terms who have just copped some crap luck, I would trust that Hine got it right and all this talk of trading them is foolish IMO, especially for someone like Aish who looks like just another vanilla mid going around at the moment, these boys have a point of difference that we need to find out about.

Afraid my answer to this is a clear yes. Absence from footy for a long time in your early years almost certainly stunts development. Basic equation for mine is

Outcome as a player = natural talent + development

I think their longterm has been hurt by missing a lot of footy. How much? Cant be quantified. I am certain they have both lost a fair bit of value compared to the players we drafted.

 

[Jasper84]

They will be compelled to stay after we pick up Danger, Treloar, Dixon, Patton, Motlop, Vickery, Aish, Lynch, Carlisle, Henderson, Bennel, Tarrant, Reid, Stewart, McCarthy, Hawkins and Prestia.

 

[Axl the great]

Afraid my answer to this is a clear yes. Absence from footy for a long time in your early years almost certainly stunts development. Basic equation for mine is

Outcome as a player = natural talent + development

I think their longterm has been hurt by missing a lot of footy. How much? Cant be quantified. I am certain they have both lost a fair bit of value compared to the players we drafted.

Will have to agree to disagree here, players are like racehorses, some come up early, some take time and come good with age, some never make it, some plateau early after great form.

Look at the high draft picks that have not made it and the suburban/VFL players or rookies that have come in and blitzed it, Freeman and Shaz may only take 3 or 4 games to really adapt or they may take 100, there is no exact science to the whole thing.

 

[Markfs]

Shaz needs to get done first. Freeman not so much.

Yes. he's only half cooked at the moment...

 

[Bard]

Afraid my answer to this is a clear yes. Absence from footy for a long time in your early years almost certainly stunts development. Basic equation for mine is

Outcome as a player = natural talent + development

I think their longterm has been hurt by missing a lot of footy. How much? Cant be quantified. I am certain they have both lost a fair bit of value compared to the players we drafted.

I'd argue that their ceiling remains the same but that theyre more likely to reach it later and therefore the # of years in their prime is reduced.

 

[Gone Critical]

Will have to agree to disagree here, players are like racehorses, some come up early, some take time and come good with age, some never make it, some plateau early after great form.

Look at the high draft picks that have not made it and the suburban/VFL players or rookies that have come in and blitzed it, Freeman and Shaz may only take 3 or 4 games to really adapt or they may take 100, there is no exact science to the whole thing.

Racehorses are not a bad analogy. You are right some come on early and some come on late. What is clear however is injuries early in a career often stunt development and stop a horse reaching a level it would have otherwise made.

I am not saying Shaz and Freeman cant become good players and have productive careers but just the chance of that happening has been hampered by long term injuries and loss of development early in their career. Do you really think losing 2 years of playing time early in the career isnt a negative?

 

[Stifler's mom]

Out of all the recruits I'm mostly worried about Freeman. I think he's the most likely to want to go home.

I agree, it's a bloody long walk on a cold day.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I'm with you.

Most young players are just happy to be given the opportunity of playing AFL football while others who haven't yet debuted late into there second season would be thrilled to just score another contract especially with injury concerns hanging over there head.

Petracca for instance has already re-signed.

While I hope both re-sign Freeman would be of value as the steak knife in the Treloar deal while Scharenberg should gain us a first round selection should he want to return to Adelaide so all is not lost.

Getting Treloar and another young key forward via the draft has appeal though Hine mightn't necessarily go that way.

This is what worries me about Scharenberg. Reliastically, the only reason he wouldn't be signing is because he's going home. Which would devastate me. Was looking forward to him more than any other recruit in a long time.

 

[DrDavoren]

This is a funny season many highs and lows already and the whole contract will he won't he thing is ramping up.
Hopefully both stay on and can have big pre seasons and come out next year firing, is a lot of ifs there though.

And all the off season stuff to come is exciting, depending how we go it could easily get ugly around here.

For instance we don't land a big fish, we don't get signatures and we finish well out of the eight and are pipped by another team for a key forward.

Yep going to be some fun threads over the off season...

 

[Good_Old]

I think the best thing to do when it's completely out of our hands is to worry, because worrying will influence the outcome. Good use of energy too.

The real question is though, is Scharenberg better than Aish?

 

[northpie]

aish to pies shazza to crows or port fro a high first round seems about right to me.
neither looks like justifying their top 10 draft pick at this juncture.
maybe a win for everyone.
From pies point fo view Langdon can do the job we expected schazza to do

 

[jackcass]

I'm not sure on this. I've read this a couple of times but surely a guy plagued with injury would be more interested in concentrating on just playing good football and not trying to inflate his price somewhat without even playing a senior game. I'm not sure I like this attitude if true.

Surely even if he plays a couple of AFL games it wouldn't inflate his price that much?

Could even backfire on him is he comes in and doesn't perform.

maybe it's about self justification of worth.

 

[jackcass]

Racehorses are not a bad analogy. You are right some come on early and some come on late. What is clear however is injuries early in a career often stunt development and stop a horse reaching a level it would have otherwise made.

I am not saying Shaz and Freeman cant become good players and have productive careers but just the chance of that happening has been hampered by long term injuries and loss of development early in their career. Do you really think losing 2 years of playing time early in the career isnt a negative?

Do we need to start gelding a couple of players