Sheehan What the?

[feenix67]

Sheehan's appearance on 5AA last night would have been hilarious had the guy not been so dead set serious. His whole attitude was a study in all that is wrong with the Victorian football scene.

And his hesitance to recognise Barrie Robran as a genuine NATIONAL football great just showed his ignorance on the game of football.

Did someone record it?

 

[arrowman]

this is all smoke and mirrors. no team has yet had any success rebuilding through the draft, and no one with a priority pick has ever won a permiership. this will change, but equalisation is more about appearing to give everyone a fair shake, than actually doing so.

Nail, hammer etc.

It is important, I think, to remember that the draft is not just (or perhaps even primarily) about "equalisation" in the sense that it is designed to help rebuild poorly performing clubs. First and foremost it is about putting the clubs into a queue so that no club(s) can corner the market in talent - e.g. allowing the Crows and Port to attract the best 2-3 SA prospects just because those players would rather stay in SA.

The second consideration is what order you make the "queue". it is convenient to make it reverse ladder, but that does not mean that the primary purpose is to give the bottom side first pick. The main thing is they take turns. And in any case the sides at the bottom of the ladder are not necessarily the ones who need the most help with their playing list.

This is IMHO why a draft lottery, for the bottom 8 sides anyway, would not be the End of Equalisation As We Know It.

 

[Macca19]

I think that is a good decision.

At the moment a talented junior will go straight from Under 17's into the reserves. Quality players tend to spend very little, if any, time in the Under 19's.

Consider the number of players that are in their last year of U19's (ie 18 years old on Jan 1) that don't play any reserves football this year. Statistically very few (I'd estimate close to 5%) of these players will make it to SANFL league football, let alone AFL. So essentially the SANFL are running an entire age group that feeds players into amateur league clubs. Why? That is not their role. The new system is a common sense approach.

You are correct. In most cases, elite juniors spend very little or no time in the 19s. Look at Gibbs, Sellar, Fairclough. All playing league when still eligible for U17s. Lindsey Thomas of the Magpies won the McCallum Medal last year and this year went straight to reserves level and has been dominating.

As you say, generally if a kid is still in the U19s at the age of 19 then they generally wont make senior SANFL level anyway.

I dont mind it.

 

[Mego Red]

this is all smoke and mirrors. no team has yet had any success rebuilding through the draft, and no one with a priority pick has ever won a permiership.

I won't bother looking it up so I may be wrong, but - Brisbane?

 

[Crow-mo]

I won't bother looking it up so I may be wrong, but - Brisbane?

pick 1 1998 des headland

no priority pick.

WC Pick 3 Chris Judd
Wc Pick 6 Ashley Sampi (priority)

only team to make a grandfinal with a priority pick.

it will change obviously, but it's hardly a great endorsement for the rebuild through the draft, it cures everything theory.

 

[Vader]

To be honest, i think we're yet to see the first flag from a team completely formed by drafting. Maybe Sydney's last year might be considered the first.

Say what you will, but there is little doubt that West Coast, Adelaide and Port all won theirs on the back of their startup concessions - or players they gained as a result of trading those on their initial lists.

Brisbane's flags were arguably brought about as a result of the merger with Fitzroy. Yes, only one player from the Fitzroy 8 played in those flags, but they were able to use the others in trades which brought several more premiership heroes to the club.

Flags earned by Victorian sides in the '90s were largely based on players who were in the system before the introduction of the draft.

It's hard to say that no team has ever won a flag by bottoming out, when I would actually argue that no team has ever won a flag (other than MAYBE Sydney in 2006) based purely on players taken in the draft.

 

[Asty]

He is saying that the Non Victorian teams have an advantage with our 12 games at home huh? collingwood and essendon play 18 games in victoria

If the reason for the vic failure is that they dont get enough home games then why are some of their clubs selling their current home games to interstate venues like the WB in NT, Saints in TAS, Hawks in TAS, roos in ACT, MELB all over the shop ?? yes they do it for financial gain but surely having more home games and winning more games would do that also

 

[Crow-mo]

To be honest, i think we're yet to see the first flag from a team completely formed by drafting. Maybe Sydney's last year might be considered the first.

Say what you will, but there is little doubt that West Coast, Adelaide and Port all won theirs on the back of their startup concessions - or players they gained as a result of trading those on their initial lists.

Brisbane's flags were arguably brought about as a result of the merger with Fitzroy. Yes, only one player from the Fitzroy 8 played in those flags, but they were able to use the others in trades which brought several more premiership heroes to the club.

Flags earned by Victorian sides in the '90s were largely based on players who were in the system before the introduction of the draft.

It's hard to say that no team has ever won a flag by bottoming out, when I would actually argue that no team has ever won a flag (other than MAYBE Sydney in 2006) based purely on players taken in the draft.

yeah you're right. there have been no flags won without the heavy use of concessions. again, I would need to think about it some more, but perhaps you're right about sydney. What is true though, is that if no team has won through bottoming out, by extension that means no team has gone the draft picks route - in the commonly understood way. Sure sydney have rebuilt, much like we have rebuilt, but that hasn't been off the back of extensive high picks, just what comes around evey year.

 

[Crow-mo]

If the reason for the vic failure is that they dont get enough home games then why are some of their clubs selling their current home games to interstate venues like the WB in NT, Saints in TAS, Hawks in TAS, roos in ACT, MELB all over the shop ?? yes they do it for financial gain but surely having more home games and winning more games would do that also

of course the excuses don't stack up, they rarely do when you hear someone whine over and over.

Geelong is an example of the only vic team with a suburban advantage, but equally you do a lot more travelling that collingwood - sure, it forces you, like us, to have better routine management, but that's gain at the end of a lot of pain.

for years in the early days we were criticised for not being able to travel, we sucked it up, worked on it, and now we're pretty good. All the while a number of traditional teams sat back, got fat and comfy on the sofa whilst we worked, and now that we reap the benefits they whinge.

in economic terms, this would be a government protected, tariff supported industry bitching and moaning because of deregulation, which allowed fitter, more competitive players into their space. can you hear it, I can "aw it's not fair, we've had a soft, cushy ride, it's not fair we suddenly have to compete with competitors who had to adapt and thrive in their own cut throat environments, so that now they're leaner and fitter than us". boo f*cking hoo.

we did it hard, and now we reap the benefits. it's not that we got a softer hand, but that we've become harder, better, more competitive in the face of adversity. This is true of all the non-metro vic sides to some extents.

what next, people complaining about the unfair advantages that Kenyan distance runners have because of how far they have to run to get food every day!!!?

 

[CrowMagnum]

We have folded to the pressure!
From 07 onwards it will be under 16s and 18s in all SA leauges

Won't happen. You need a unanimous decision by the SANFL clubs, and all bar 2 are against a change so the status quo remains.

 

[jc67]

Won't happen. You need a unanimous decision by the SANFL clubs, and all bar 2 are against a change so the status quo remains.

It already has
It was a matter of AFL funding being withheld if they didn't, the only way it could change now is if the clubs lobby the SANFL.
IMHO that wont happen.

BTW most ammo's have changed within the last 2 years.

 

[Copernicus]

Maybe the Vic teams could benefit from returning to their roots and regaining some of that old home ground advantage...

I sort of wish this would happen, but the fact is that the game has bypassed the suburban grounds, with the exception of KP. The irony, somewhat, is that Geelong gets fantastic money out of their true home games, whereas the other Vic teams are forced to get pretty good crowds at the Dome or the G to break even.

However, so much money has been poured into the two rationalised grounds that the suburban grounds are never going to be anything more than training bases for clubs - as it is, Hawthorn has abandoned Glenferrie and I don't think Collingwood uses Victoria Park either. The suburban roots didn't take long to wither away in some cases, and the truth is that the grounds are simply too small to attract big enough crowds in this age of a national comp anyway. Glenferrie could probably handle 10,000 these days, what with OSHA and so forth, and some others (Arden St for instance) not much more than that.

 

[*PAF]

Fact. We have a long proud history.
Fact. We have never tanked in order to receive a priority pick.
Fact. We have stupid F/S rules in place.

Fact. We do not have a large supporter base, one of the smallest in fact.
Fact. We are not a rich club.
Fact. We do not rely on handouts.
Fact. We have not been able to afford to fill the rookie list every year.
Fact. Only one of our four rookies this year is from SA.

Somehow all of this is forgotten by tools like Sheehan and Wallace when it doesn't suit them.
It's easy to come up with compelling evidence by ignoring everything that doesn't fit isn't it Mr Sheehan?

 

[macca23]

Fact. We have a long proud history.
Fact. We have never tanked in order to receive a priority pick.
Fact. We have stupid F/S rules in place.

Fact. We do not have a large supporter base, one of the smallest in fact.
Fact. We are not a rich club.
Fact. We do not rely on handouts.
Fact. We have not been able to afford to fill the rookie list every year.
Fact. Only one of our four rookies this year is from SA.

Fact. I'm enjoying the slab of Coopers gained from our little wager.

Thanks again, mate!!

 

[*PAF]

Fact. I'm enjoying the slab of Coopers gained from our little wager.

Thanks again, mate!!

And there I was finally feeling better after last night's game.
Nah, only kidding, I'll get one back next year.

 

[Crow-mo]

Fact. We have a long proud history.
Fact. We have never tanked in order to receive a priority pick.
Fact. We have stupid F/S rules in place.

Fact. We do not have a large supporter base, one of the smallest in fact.
Fact. We are not a rich club.
Fact. We do not rely on handouts.
Fact. We have not been able to afford to fill the rookie list every year.
Fact. Only one of our four rookies this year is from SA.

Somehow all of this is forgotten by tools like Sheehan and Wallace when it doesn't suit them.
It's easy to come up with compelling evidence by ignoring everything that doesn't fit isn't it Mr Sheehan?

facts only complicate matters when you have an agenda to promote

 

[Vader]

I sort of wish this would happen, but the fact is that the game has bypassed the suburban grounds, with the exception of KP. The irony, somewhat, is that Geelong gets fantastic money out of their true home games, whereas the other Vic teams are forced to get pretty good crowds at the Dome or the G to break even.

However, so much money has been poured into the two rationalised grounds that the suburban grounds are never going to be anything more than training bases for clubs - as it is, Hawthorn has abandoned Glenferrie and I don't think Collingwood uses Victoria Park either. The suburban roots didn't take long to wither away in some cases, and the truth is that the grounds are simply too small to attract big enough crowds in this age of a national comp anyway. Glenferrie could probably handle 10,000 these days, what with OSHA and so forth, and some others (Arden St for instance) not much more than that.

Spot on.

Kardinia Park and Princes Park aside, none of the other old suburban grounds would be suitable any more as AFL venues.

That means that they need to find some new way of establishing a true home ground advantage.

 

[arrowman]

Fact. I'm enjoying the slab of Coopers gained from our little wager.

Thanks again, mate!!

If that wager was about a Port Adelaide performance, I hope it was Mild Ale.

 

[macca23]

If that wager was about a Port Adelaide performance, I hope it was Mild Ale.

Well it was, and it was Pale Ale.

Fitting!!

 

[*PAF]

Well it was, and it was Pale Ale.

Fitting!!

Yeah I know, winners are grinners and losers have to develop a tough skin.

Payback time will come around sooner or later.