Shoenmakers

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K

Kapil Hawk

Debutant
Sep 26, 2007
110
0
South Yarra
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Look I know I'll be lambasted for this but Ryan Shoenmakers is

NOT UP TO IT

He has now cost us in both games against Geelong; Round 2 with his inept kicking across goal and today with both his decision making and poor disposal.

I am actually willing to forgive him for a couple of the glaring mistakes he has made due to his age but it is so obvious that at the moment that he is not up to senior football. Could have even been worse last week if we had lost after his kicks into the forward 50 during the second and third quarter. Put the kid away and let him develop and tell him to kick through the football as he is a lovely kick instead of placing it high and turning it over consistently.

We lost by two points today, one was with the poor kicking in the third which has been waiting to bite us for a while and the second was because of the selection of two backs in for two mids. Poor imo and not shoey's fault but for the time he is being found out and its painful to watch
 
This thread saddens me. Pathetic singling out of a player. The club wont be singling out players, why should we? Football has moved with the times, I suggest you do too.
 
IBleedBrownNGold said:
This thread saddens me. Pathetic singling out of a player. The club wont be singling out players, why should we? Football has moved with the times, I suggest you do too.
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Could not have said it better.
 

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The exact lack of accountability that I expected in the responses from the forum tbh. Read into it and see that I actually do not blame him for the loss, but I would think that intellectual part of criticism is beyond you as well
 
Who do you suggest should have taken Ottens? FFS did you notice the wind today? Yes he made mistakes - every single player on the ground did. I agree he still has a alot to learn, but do you actually think if we play him at Box Hill for a year, he will magically be a ready made AFL player? Have you ever heard how everyone in the know says it takes at least 50 AFL games to find your feet? Problem with 'developing' him at Box Hill is that 50 game mark will be 5 years away.
 
I read your post. I'm not suggesting you blame him for the loss. I noted your singling out of individual players and pointed to the fact that football clubs do not single out individual negatives on the ground and use them to analyse why they lose matches.

In Ryan's case today, he made some errors, yes. But I'll put this question to you. What if our midfield had been stronger in stopping Geelong's quick rebound from our forward 50? What if the pressure were not there in the first place?
 
Kapil Hawk said:
The exact lack of accountability that I expected in the responses from the forum tbh. Read into it and see that I actually do not blame him for the loss, but I would think that intellectual part of criticism is beyond you as well
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Personal attacks do not impress me, you will not get any respect around here with an irresponsible personal attack. If you don't like the forum then don't use it
 
Geelong are a far better team that use at rebounding from their defensive half. For the last three weeks it has been glaring after half time that we have been largely stagnant when taking the ball out of defense thus I feel the argument is rather null and void. Furthermore I have no problems with Shoey spoiling or defensive work in general but with the ball in hands he is like the deer in headlights refered to in another threads. And with Browny down the other end of the paddock their is a viable and imo excellent alternative (albeit potentially today he was underdone).

SO to clarify, the forward pressure is none of his fault and today as well as last week I think you would agree, that the team quelled it with aplomb given the ease at times that the ball came out of the Geelong's defence. However you still ahve to use the ball and Shoe under pressure this year has not done that or when in a situation where under pressure (like the blocked handball late in the second quarter) gone for a percentage option like kicking the ball down the line and instad has gone for the cute option which consistently in his case has not come off.
 
IBleedBrownNGold said:
I read your post. I'm not suggesting you blame him for the loss. I noted your singling out of individual players and pointed to the fact that football clubs do not single out individual negatives on the ground and use them to analyse why they lose matches.

In Ryan's case today, he made some errors, yes. But I'll put this question to you. What if our midfield had been stronger in stopping Geelong's quick rebound from our forward 50? What if the pressure were not there in the first place?
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Well written now that's a reasoned member
 
Tom Murphy is smiling at this thread becuase for once it is not about him. For those who are getting on Shoeys back then you clearly have nfi. KPP ALWAYS take longer to develope then other players and Shoey is no different. Sure he had a bad game but look at the player he was playing on. Ottens has a very small impact on the game. So in a way Shoey did his main job OK. Give him another 20 or 30 games and he will be a gun. The key is getting those games.
 
I haven't been lucky enough to watch this game but I gather from all the slating of the kid who has played just 24 games that Jarryd Roughead put in a blinder of a game today. :cool:

Good post Rosewell - while most of us 'get it', there are some who look for a scapegoat everytime we lose.
 

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You have to remember he's still 19, spent all his junior football & for Norwood in the SANFL, as a forward.

Developing as a young key defender, he will always make a few errors. He was not the only player on the ground that made mistakes.

He needs to work on his decision making speed, which should improve with experience.

Watching Schoey & Stratton develop together has been exciting.
 
Just my 2 cents:

I, PERSONALLY, don't see Shoey developing as a KPD. His lack of awareness and poor decision-making will prevent him from performing as CHB/FB.

I think we should stick him in the forward line and develop him there. He just seems more suitable and comfortable as a KPF. He definitlely has the physical attributes and skills to trouble many defenders.

Shift Shoey to the forward line, and push Roughie down back. That way, this gives them both an opportunity to regain their confidence...
 
Roswell said:
Knowing Ryan personally makes it hard for me to post with any sort of lack of bias. What I will say is that the kid played as a forward for his entire junior career. Dominated school and under age footy at CHF and played with a maturity and intensity that belied his age.
The difference between Ryan and the rest of the juniors was is willingness to put his god damn hand up when he was at fault. NEVER shirk a contest and always strive to be a better player. The kid has been asked to play roles that arguably could have hindered his development. How many key position kids in their first year play 13 games in their first season??? Thrown straight into a position that he had little(no) experience in against seasoned and mature bodied men. Have a look at Lisle or Davis at Adelaide... or Watts, Trengove at Port or McKernan. All given time in lesser leagues to grow, fill out and develop their game.

He's kept at it. His preseason was exceptional. He led the packs in all the early work and put more muscle per kg of BW than any other player. He absolutely loves the club he has been drafted to and I can 100% assure you he will look at todays tape, not drop his head over his dropped marks but get out on the track and work his arse off to make sure when he is next in those positions he cleanly takes the grabs.

What makes me sick is that you can get on here... under some B.S alias and personally attack a player as "not up to it". Well Im sorry sunshine... strap yourself in... because the recruiting staff had faith in the fact he

IS UP TO IT

and Clarko has the faith in the lad to play him V the Cats cos he believes he

IS UP TO IT.

He may well get dropped back for a game or 2 to regain confidence... and I for one know he'll crack in and be back sooner rather than later.
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Kudos to you sir, for making a sensible post in an embarrasing thread. Kapil_Hawk, I suggest you find a new team. There aren't many 19 year olds asked to play what, 5+ (FB, CHB, HBF, R, CHF) positions in only their second season of football. You peanut, get a clue.

I just hope, when Schoenmakers develops into a quailty footballer, and, he will, that you don't sit there saying you knew it all along. It's supporters like you that make everyone else look bad.

Fancy that aye, a 19 year old making the odd mistake playing KPD.. Well, I'll be damned.
 
First of all this game is no indication of how important he will become to us, ottens or whoever he played on is not a CHF schoey is the definition of a developing CHB quick of the mark, strong hands decision making is poor but with games that will get better its no suprise that schoey has look great against cloke and gumbleton centre half forwards in a few years he will be good against guys like rieqolt and brown but will never be a full back
 
You blokes who are writing Shoey off are dumb-asses. I flinched, too, when the pressure was on, the game could have been ours to win, but there was a disposal error, (much like many Hodge has made in his footy career), so if you can't see the upside in Shoey now, then go have a cold shower, and consider him again. He's a very capable player, and with limited games under his belt. I reckon he's doing just fine.

We did lose the game. The whole league is looking at us now with some fear. We should be feared. Shoey, keep doing what you're doing. Good things ahead !
 
What a pathetic OP.

One of the highest pressure games of the year against one of the best teams in the modern era and you're singling out a 19 year old KPD and claiming he's "not up to it".

Frankly, your posting IS NOT UP TO IT.

You will never make a decent poster, and you've cost this board much dignity in at least two threads this year.

Just as the HFC has match selection so should this board. This thread is soft, unnaccountable and shows signs of having already signed with the Gold Coast...
 
scapegoat.jpg
 
Hawkforce said:
What a pathetic OP.

One of the highest pressure games of the year against one of the best teams in the modern era and you're singling out a 19 year old KPD and claiming he's "not up to it".

Frankly, your posting IS NOT UP TO IT.

This thread is soft, unnaccountable and shows signs of having already signed with the Gold Coast...
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:eek::D :thumbsu:

Not another GC signing?!

I wasn't able to watch the game but from all accounts the lad had a shocker but every player does from time to time. We all cringe, we all know it sometimes looks like individual clangers cost us a game, same as sometimes we say a single player won us the game. Truth is, it's a highly skilled TEAM sport and no one individual can win or lose a game played by a TEAM over ~120mins.
Shoey is an exciting prospect for the future of our club and I hope he continues to develop and show the heart he has done thus far, season 2010. Go Hawks!
 
Adelaide Hawk said:
*sigh* Now that Murphy is playing well, we've found another player to take cheap shots at. How about some of you guys try SUPPORTING your players for a change?
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Please everyone take some advise from a wise poster.

Give the kid a chance, we lost yesterday, i was devastated, but i was proud by everyone of our players.

I'm getting tired coming on to the forum and reading emotional rants that have no idea about the game. Yes he made mistakes, but so did a dozen other players that i could point out during the game, but to suggest it cost us the game................................!@##$%%^&*()_*&^%$#@@ :mad:
 
I thought he was good on ottens when ottens was in the forward line, but Geelong went small they had him playing on stokes, now the the thing that annoyed me was the coaching staff didn't take him off, because there wasn't a matchup for him when ottens was not in the forward line!!! Bad coaching!!! The offensive part of his game will come with experience and confidence but to play 195cm kid on 179cm small big mistake especially with the conditions of yesterdays game
 
Roswell said:
Knowing Ryan personally makes it hard for me to post with any sort of lack of bias. What I will say is that the kid played as a forward for his entire junior career. Dominated school and under age footy at CHF and played with a maturity and intensity that belied his age.
The difference between Ryan and the rest of the juniors was is willingness to put his god damn hand up when he was at fault. NEVER shirk a contest and always strive to be a better player. The kid has been asked to play roles that arguably could have hindered his development. How many key position kids in their first year play 13 games in their first season??? Thrown straight into a position that he had little(no) experience in against seasoned and mature bodied men. Have a look at Lisle or Davis at Adelaide... or Watts, Trengove at Port or McKernan. All given time in lesser leagues to grow, fill out and develop their game.

He's kept at it. His preseason was exceptional. He led the packs in all the early work and put more muscle per kg of BW than any other player. He absolutely loves the club he has been drafted to and I can 100% assure you he will look at todays tape, not drop his head over his dropped marks but get out on the track and work his arse off to make sure when he is next in those positions he cleanly takes the grabs.

What makes me sick is that you can get on here... under some B.S alias and personally attack a player as "not up to it". Well Im sorry sunshine... strap yourself in... because the recruiting staff had faith in the fact he

IS UP TO IT

and Clarko has the faith in the lad to play him V the Cats cos he believes he

IS UP TO IT.

He may well get dropped back for a game or 2 to regain confidence... and I for one know he'll crack in and be back sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...

Great Post and great insight - thanks!!

People forget even the great Chris Langford started on a wing, was in and out of the side and there were those that thought he wasn't up to it.

Shoey is developing and has been good the last two weeks, yesterday he made some errors, but suffered a little from matchups.

I feel confident that our backline is taking shape not just for now but for the next 5+ years.

Very proud of the lads yesterday, another great game to be at, just enjoying every week based on the fact that most would have happily shut our season down at 1-6.
 
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