Society/Culture Should Australia have a GP Co-Payment ?

[Bradesmaen]

This argument about people going to the emergency department instead of going to see a doctor was perfectly answered by Tony Abott.He pointed out that if people go to a the emergency department they will face a very long wait which will be a greater deterrent than paying $7 to see a GP.

This problem can be solved easily anyway by applying a fee to people who go to the emergency department when they could of seen a doctor.

Out of interest do you have any ideas yourself on how we can make savings in health expenditure? the reality is that if we like it or not cuts to welfare, health and education will have to be made in the near future. The longer we delay these cuts the more severe they will be.

I don't think you understand how desperate people are to save money. They'll wait at an emergency department. You also can't judge who could and couldn't have gone to a doctor versus emergency..

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I don't think you understand how desperate people are to save money. They'll wait at an emergency department. You also can't judge who could and couldn't have gone to a doctor versus emergency..

Stop this BS buddy. Most people who whinge about paying $7 for a GP co-payment all spend much more than that on a range of non essential items .I know this, you know this and so does everyone else reading this forum.

 

[sherb]

Stop this BS buddy. Most people who whinge about paying $7 for a GP co-payment all spend much more than that on a range of non essential items .I know this, you know this and so does everyone else reading this forum.

You'd have to be a stalker to know that.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Stop this BS buddy. Most people who whinge about paying $7 for a GP co-payment all spend much more than that on a range of non essential items .I know this, you know this and so does everyone else reading this forum.

And? They'd rather do that and wait in line at an emergency department than pay $7 for a GP, as is their right to do what they want with their money. Unless you're going down the fascist route again and telling people what they can and can't do like you did with Uni degrees.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

And if your dick moves that's because it's meant to.

I thought it was just a blood test these days? No more finger-up-the-date shenanigans?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

And? They'd rather do that and wait in line at an emergency department than pay $7 for a GP, as is their right to do what they want with their money. Unless you're going down the fascist route again and telling people what they can and can't do like you did with Uni degrees.

Problem is its not their money its the tax payer money. People are free to do what they like (within the law) but they are required to pay for it themselves , they can not simply expect others to fund their personal choices.

People will not wait for hours and hours to save $7. To be honest it would be that simple to put on a payment for an emergency department visit anyway. When people go there they are already graded based on the seriousness of their condition.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The age of entitlement is coming to an end guys just accept it.

If you are an adult than you are responsible for your own healthcare. Not me or the man down the street but you.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Problem is its not their money its the tax payer money. People are free to do what they like (within the law) but they are required to pay for it themselves , they can not simply expect others to fund their personal choices.

People will not wait for hours and hours to save $7. To be honest it would be that simple to put on a payment for an emergency department visit anyway. When people go there they are already graded based on the seriousness of their condition.

You're like Tony Abbott, completely out of touch with the common person. What's it like living in an ivory tower?

And they are paying it back, so they are entitled to. You can't have people getting law degrees being paid for and humanities degrees not being paid for. Hell, they produce as many job prospects as each other these days... just ask any Law student the s**t they have to do to get a job, if they even get one.

Seriousness of condition can be graded sure, but people aren't doctors. If a kid has a bad cough, it could be serious, but it could also not be. You clearly don't understand medicine, which is not surprising as you don't seem to understand anything really.

 

[Bradesmaen]

The age of entitlement is coming to an end guys just accept it.

If you are an adult than you are responsible for your own healthcare. Not me or the man down the street but you.

Cool, so when you have a car crash and need surgeries costing over 100k... can I deny you the right to get them? Pay for yourself, responsible for your own healthcare. Break from the system. By the way, do you live in Hutt River?

 

[The Passenger]

People will do funny things to save money.

When the Opal Card first came out in Sydney it was pay for the first 8 journeys of a week and get the rest free. The idea being Friday and weekends would be free travel for most people.

There was a loophole on some routes where you could turn a journey into two and only pay for for public transport on Monday and Tuesday. But it added about 15 minutes to the travel for those 4 journeys (an hour of a persons time in total) and ultimately saved about $8 or something miniscule like that. But people still did it. A lot of people won't sit in a waiting room to save $7, but a lot will.

The age of entitlement is coming to an end guys just accept it.

You do realise the majority of people on this forum would be net losers on health care in terms of benefits received v tax paid?

So this "age of entitlement" line that you like to throw at people is mostly moot.

We just have the foresight to realise a healthy society makes for a better society, and that one day those benefits are likely to come back to help people as they age.

Anyway, you're clearly pushing towards a model that resembles the American health care system which is widely considered as one of the worst in the western world.

And is private healthcare better anyway? My folks got rid of theirs because when they used it the treatment was never any better and often worse than going through the public system. I know of a number of other mates whose parents have done the same.

 

[cartwright]

Stop this BS buddy. Most people who whinge about paying $7 for a GP co-payment all spend much more than that on a range of non essential items .I know this, you know this and so does everyone else reading this forum.

Mate, if you’ve never had to watch every dollar, how the * would you know what it’s like?

 

[Messenger]

People will not wait for hours and hours to save $7. To be honest it would be that simple to put on a payment for an emergency department visit anyway. When people go there they are already graded based on the seriousness of their condition.

They absolutely do. Wage growth has been weak for years and health costs have outstripped inflation by a factor of two or three for some time.

Mofra I'd agree the private health rebate (and insurance in general) is often poor value for money but the public health system wouldn't cope with a withdrawal of the incentive scheme. Anecdotally we're already seeing people withdrawing from insurance or reducing their level of coverage.

 

[Mofra]

They absolutely do. Wage growth has been weak for years and health costs have outstripped inflation by a factor of two or three for some time.

Mofra I'd agree the private health rebate (and insurance in general) is often poor value for money but the public health system wouldn't cope with a withdrawal of the incentive scheme. Anecdotally we're already seeing people withdrawing from insurance or reducing their level of coverage.

There isn't too much take up in private hospitals for GE surgery as it's still cheaper to use the public system for many (most?) policy-holders.
The diversion of the billions of dollars used to administer the two tier system would help the public system cope with extra demand, and then some.

The current system of artificially creating competition is hugely ineffective and most research I've seen bears that out.
G_C trolling aside, it's only the most blinkered neoliberal who honestly believes, contrary to available evidence, that the two tier system runs efficiently.

The US system (which G_C seems to be trying to argue for) is one of the most expensive systems in the world and one of the most inefficient. Australia spends close to OECD average so the fear-mongering about our healthcare costs is not correct either.

 

[sherb]

I thought it was just a blood test these days? No more finger-up-the-date shenanigans?

The PSA test isn't foolproof by any means. It's certainly possible to have a false negative.

My PSA results have been good for many years, but I started having some "issues" so I insisted on the "fickle finger of fate" for peace of mind.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

There isn't too much take up in private hospitals for GE surgery as it's still cheaper to use the public system for many (most?) policy-holders.
The diversion of the billions of dollars used to administer the two tier system would help the public system cope with extra demand, and then some.

The current system of artificially creating competition is hugely ineffective and most research I've seen bears that out.
G_C trolling aside, it's only the most blinkered neoliberal who honestly believes, contrary to available evidence, that the two tier system runs efficiently.

The US system (which G_C seems to be trying to argue for) is one of the most expensive systems in the world and one of the most inefficient. Australia spends close to OECD average so the fear-mongering about our healthcare costs is not correct either.

The USA is a country with population of 330 million and has 50 states. The key reason why healthcare is so expensive in the US as outlined by many republicans including Trump is too much red tape.

I spend $240 a month on private health insurance. This money along with the payments all other members pay is saved and invested to look after its members healthcare needs. Get rid of private health insurance and all this money is gone, you will not make it up at all unless you cut back on quality.

If you want to lower administrative costs get as many people out of the public system as possible. The private sector will always be more efficient than the public system.

Good luck trying to get elective surgery in the public system, I had a friends mum who had to wait almost a year to have gallbladder stone removed and another who waited over a year to have hip surgery. In the private system these surgeries would of happened within a week.

In the public system you have no choice over who operates on you, you could be the very first person that a surgeon has ever operated on. In the private system you pick the best.

 

[Mofra]

The USA is a country with population of 330 million and has 50 states. The key reason why healthcare is so expensive in the US as outlined by many republicans including Trump is too much red tape.

Red tape = two tier system.
Single tier system = lower administration costs.

If you want to lower administrative costs get as many people out of the public system as possible. The private sector will always be more efficient than the public system.

Actually it isn't - hence the US has the highest spend per capita.
If you can provide research instead of rhetoric, do so.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You do realise the majority of people on this forum would be net losers on health care in terms of benefits received v tax paid?

So this "age of entitlement" line that you like to throw at people is mostly moot.

We just have the foresight to realise a healthy society makes for a better society, and that one day those benefits are likely to come back to help people as they age.

Anyway, you're clearly pushing towards a model that resembles the American health care system which is widely considered as one of the worst in the western world.

And is private healthcare better anyway? My folks got rid of theirs because when they used it the treatment was never any better and often worse than going through the public system. I know of a number of other mates whose parents have done the same.

I am not directing my comments at any individual on this forum. If you want a high quality health system than we need as many people as possible to make contributions financially to their own healthcare.

Private health insurance gives you nicer facilities, a better staff to patient ratio, the ability to choose your own doctor and much shorter wait times for elective surgery.

Do you think I spend $240 a month on health insurance for fun?

With health care you cannot have the following 3, you can have 2 but not all 3.

1.Universiatlity
2.Quality
3.Affordability

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Red tape = two tier system.
Single tier system = lower administration costs.


Actually it isn't - hence the US has the highest spend per capita.
If you can provide research instead of rhetoric, do so.

If you want quality healthcare you need private health insurance. Under your system all the premiums paid for by people like me would be gone and this money would not be replaced. My health care admin costs are not $240 a month mate.


This needs to be repeated but you can only tick 2 of the following 3 boxes, not all 3.

1.Universality
2.Quality
3.Affordability

 

[Mofra]

If you want quality healthcare you need private health insurance. Under your system all the premiums paid for by people like me would be gone and this money would not be replaced. My health care admin costs are not $240 a month mate.


This needs to be repeated but you can only tick 2 of the following 3 boxes, not all 3.

1.Universality
2.Quality
3.Affordability

So you have no research then?

Ok

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The PSA test isn't foolproof by any means. It's certainly possible to have a false negative.

My PSA results have been good for many years, but I started having some "issues" so I insisted on the "fickle finger of fate" for peace of mind.

That's actually good to know. I'll need to start dealing with this kind of thing shortly.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

[]

People will do funny things to save money.

When the Opal Card first came out in Sydney it was pay for the first 8 journeys of a week and get the rest free. The idea being Friday and weekends would be free travel for most people.

There was a loophole on some routes where you could turn a journey into two and only pay for for public transport on Monday and Tuesday. But it added about 15 minutes to the travel for those 4 journeys (an hour of a persons time in total) and ultimately saved about $8 or something miniscule like that. But people still did it. A lot of people won't sit in a waiting room to save $7, but a lot will.


You do realise the majority of people on this forum would be net losers on health care in terms of benefits received v tax paid?

So this "age of entitlement" line that you like to throw at people is mostly moot.

We just have the foresight to realise a healthy society makes for a better society, and that one day those benefits are likely to come back to help people as they age.

Anyway, you're clearly pushing towards a model that resembles the American health care system which is widely considered as one of the worst in the western world.

And is private healthcare better anyway? My folks got rid of theirs because when they used it the treatment was never any better and often worse than going through the public system. I know of a number of other mates whose parents have done the same.

The public sector wait list for surgeries can be 6+ months, the public system is horribly inefficient like all other operational government sectors.

Let business run the medical and hospital sector, make it efficient and effective, as they will all be competing to provide the best world class services against one another. Government just can’t do the job as their is no competitive profit incentive

 

[geelong_crazy26]

So you have no research then?

Ok

Socialism, your research is meaningless you just cant stand the fact that private health insurance provides better quality healthcare, you want equality for all . If you did some proper research you would no that we don't have anywhere near the number of health care providers they do in the US, the costs of drugs are lower, we don't have different laws amongst 50 states, we don't have people taking legal action at the same rate and the same level of red tape.

Private health is suppose to costs more because its better quality but its cheaper for the taxpayer because the individual covers part of the costs. In Australia admim is 14% of Private health insurance expenditure so out of my $240 only 34$ goes to admin.

If you are not going to give out a rebate for private health insurance than don't take taxes for public hospitals from people who have private health insurance. Given that the top 10% of income earners pay more than half the tax in this country the public system will go broke.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Lets make this clear .

No private health insurance rebate, than people who have private health insurance do not pay taxes for public hospitals.

This will send nearly every public hospital broke.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Lets make this clear .

No private health insurance rebate, than people who have private health insurance do not pay taxes for public hospitals.

This will send nearly every public hospital broke.

That summary is as far from clear as one could make it.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

That summary is as far from clear as one could make it.

People who have private health insurance only pay tax for priavte hospitals.

People who use the public system only pay tax for public hospitals.

People who have private health pay much more tax so most public hospitals will go broke.the private hospitals will thrive.