Politics Should Australia move towards a stronger China relationship?

[Mike Smyth]

It's surprising how many small businesses in the Adelaide CBD are run by Chinese. I'm also surprised with how many don't employ locals. "RACIST".

 

[Mike Smyth]

Do some traveling and read some books about some other countries and cultures firstly!
Secondly China is a communist dictatorship! Go and read up about their way of life before even commenting how good it is compared to Australia!
Lastly if you don’t like the country your in it isn’t hard to pack your bags and more

You're wasting your time arguing with a mad man. He's a nutter.

 

[CheapCharlie]

I've said it before, but everyone who thinks America was immoral as a superpower will become a bit more woke once China rises. The US was by no means benevolent during its reign, but it was a hell of a lot more reserved than those who cane before and likley after.

However The world has changed and that's the reality. The US has become too politically unstable to rely on for both trade and security. Everyone who is waiting for Trump to leave is a solution is not looking at why he's there to begin with. We arent going back to normal once hes out.

It is the Asian century, and we do need to align our economy and embrace Asia, but I don't think its a great thing to be too economically integrated into China, as it will become an increasing political abd security risk. I'd like us to be tied with nations surrounding China like Korea, Japan and the ASEAN nations; but we have and will continue to just take the easy money.

Economically we do okay with China, but we are insignificant to them in the scheme of things.

Our biggest future fear should be protection of ourselves, or lack of. Without America we don't have much in the way of protection, other than a large land mass and distance from other countries.

Even with sucking up to China, they aren't likely to ever step in to offer help to defend us.

Currently they are buying up food and agriculture and mining assets, looking to provide for their future population needs. There might be a scenario in 20 years from now of most of food production will be sent overseas.

Having China have a large economic interest here + their reliance on the commodities probably assists us. They wont want their supply disrupted by some other aggressor

 

[Marcus DuQuesne]

We have a strong trading relationship with China politically we are no more than a client state. This will not change for at least half a century by which time there maybe more Chinese in Australia than any other nationality. I have no problem with this. The future will be what it is and my children and then children will adapt to whatever society evolves in Australia. I personally do not believe in countries but Globalisation of the Planet. However we are still a couple of centuries away unless technology gets us there quicker. China will take over the land mass called Australia when is the question.

 

[Power Raid]

I never understood why we allowed China to buy up our ports, pastoral and agricultural land, as well as residential land when they won’t let us do the same if we wanted too!

I'm happy if they buy our ports as they'll have to deal with the unions. They deserve each other.

Our pastoral leases go for a 2-3% yield, so they can have that to


residential land without a proper property tax is madness though

 

[CheapCharlie]

I'm happy if they buy our ports as they'll have to deal with the unions. They deserve each other.

Our pastoral leases go for a 2-3% yield, so they can have that to


residential land without a proper property tax is madness though

Do the Unions exert any control or power over the Ports anymore?

 

[Power Raid]

Do the Unions exert any control or power over the Ports anymore?

The Roe 8 debate was all about 50-100 union jobs at the port and the mooted privatisation of the Port.

The price that every man, woman and child in WA per year is $220 to subsidies these jobs.

 

[A Cut Above]

No, we shouldn't form a closer relationship with China -- because we SHOULD have formed a closer relationship with China 30 years ago when Keating was preaching about our changing role in Asia!!

America has been in slow decline since the 1960s and this was always going to be the Asian Century. Our politicians are fools without imagination to cling to so hard to the skirts of their dying empire when what we should be doing is cutting our ties and forming new ones among our Asian neighbors. That would mean spending more on defense and throwing more bribes around in the region but so be it, this will and must happen sooner or later because America won't be running the world much longer and I for one will be very, very happy to see their time come to and end. Warmongering bastards.

I've said it before, but everyone who thinks America was immoral as a superpower will become a bit more woke once China rises. The US was by no means benevolent during its reign, but it was a hell of a lot more reserved than those who cane before and likley after.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-ha...-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii/5492051

So much for America being the "good guys".

 

[Power Raid]

The whole US is in decline and China is on the rise is irrelevant from a defence and sovereign strategy. Sure we can't ignore the USs failings in the last 100 years, when it comes to diplomacy and war but we also can't ignore their successes. Same said with China's successes and failings. We also can't ignore China's and the USs treatment of their own citizens, human rights record, legal framework, social values and stability.

Taking a step back, I would suggest the US comes out on top of China on all these measures despite the "I hate the US" position some have. That said, China is going to be an increasingly valuable participant in the global setting. Rather than picking sides, we should be encouraging both the US and China to continuously improve their value to the world, their citizens and us.

If push comes to shove, we will fair better with a US relationship than a Chinese one for the next 50 years.

Our best defence strategy though is to fill our nation with Chinese blood. As they will appreciate Australia is a far better place than China and openly discuss this back home forcing China's government to improve. They will also continue to improve trade with China which ultimately means war between the nations is mitigated.

 

[A Cut Above]

The whole US is in decline and China is on the rise is irrelevant from a defence and sovereign strategy.

Once America's economy collapses (it won't be much longer till the next banking crash which may precipitate it) they won't be able to afford insane military budgets, and will be forced to close most of their 800 overseas bases and cease foreign military adventures, which are remarkably expensive. That is unless the country becomes a fascist dictatorship ruled by the the deep state, which you could argue it is well on its way towards becoming already.

We won't be able to rely on America's "protection" (racket) in future nor should we want to. Other countries are watching America's slow implosion with hawk eyes and biding their time, all the old hatreds in the region have never gone away - the Chinese & Japanese still despise each other every bit as much as before for example so I expect we'll see fireworks in Asia sooner or later.

As for the Chinese, they are entitled to protect their economic interests. The Yanks want to take control of the South China Sea which most of their trade shipping goes through, because the Americans are scared shitless by China's Belt & Road initiative which threatens American economic supremacy & military hegemony. As usual its all about money, the whole neoliberalism vs communism thing is just bullshit designed to brainwash the masses.

China has a historical record of being infinitely more peaceful & passive than the America, which will go down as one of the most bloodthirsty warmonger states in history. Which is not to say the Chinese may hesitate to use force to protect their economic interests, but unlike the Yanks they don't have a track record spanning decades of invading poor countries on the other side of the world purely to funnel cash into the hands of American corporations and the military industrial complex itself.
What is worth remembering is that China has been invaded repeatedly in the past and betrayed by western powers who sought to control its' riches, which they aren't likely to have forgotten. I think this partly explains China's cautious nature and well-placed mistrust of western powers. We should be doing everything we possibly can to earn China's trust, and detatching ourselves from this rapidly-sinking American empire would go a long way towards that.

As for the claim we'd be better off as a vassal of the Americans instead the Chinese, how do we know that? Better the devil you know is the phrase that comes to mind here, the past is always more comforting than the unknown future. Make no mistake, America's time is rapidly ending and China's is beginning, absolutely nothing we do will stop that so we need to embrace it and put our best foot forward instead of cowardly clinging to old allegiances because we're incapable of imagining a world that's different.

 

[Power Raid]

Once America's economy collapses (it won't be much longer till the next banking crash which may precipitate it) they won't be able to afford insane military budgets, and will be forced to close most of their 800 overseas bases and cease foreign military adventures, which are remarkably expensive. That is unless the country becomes a fascist dictatorship ruled by the the deep state, which you could argue it is well on its way towards becoming already.

We won't be able to rely on America's "protection" (racket) in future nor should we want to. Other countries are watching America's slow implosion with hawk eyes and biding their time, all the old hatreds in the region have never gone away - the Chinese & Japanese still despise each other every bit as much as before for example so I expect we'll see fireworks in Asia sooner or later.

As for the Chinese, they are entitled to protect their economic interests. The Yanks want to take control of the South China Sea which most of their trade shipping goes through, because the Americans are scared shitless by China's Belt & Road initiative which threatens American economic supremacy & military hegemony. As usual its all about money, the whole neoliberalism vs communism thing is just bullshit designed to brainwash the masses.

China has a historical record of being infinitely more peaceful & passive than the America, which will go down as one of the most bloodthirsty warmonger states in history. Which is not to say the Chinese may hesitate to use force to protect their economic interests, but unlike the Yanks they don't have a track record spanning decades of invading poor countries on the other side of the world purely to funnel cash into the hands of American corporations and the military industrial complex itself.
What is worth remembering is that China has been invaded repeatedly in the past and betrayed by western powers who sought to control its' riches, which they aren't likely to have forgotten. I think this partly explains China's cautious nature and well-placed mistrust of western powers. We should be doing everything we possibly can to earn China's trust, and detatching ourselves from this rapidly-sinking American empire would go a long way towards that.

As for the claim we'd be better off as a vassal of the Americans instead the Chinese, how do we know that? Better the devil you know is the phrase that comes to mind here, the past is always more comforting than the unknown future. Make no mistake, America's time is rapidly ending and China's is beginning, absolutely nothing we do will stop that so we need to embrace it and put our best foot forward instead of cowardly clinging to old allegiances because we're incapable of imagining a world that's different.

you might want to do a little more research on china's peaceful history

the US isn't the one scared shitless regarding the belt, you will find it is India and Russia scared shitless

there is no point trying to earn china's trust given the way the nation has and continues treats it's own citizens. We have to encourage change in China and empower the citizens of China with the rise of unions.

and no, the US will still rule the world for another 50 years plus

 

[A Cut Above]

the US isn't the one scared shitless regarding the belt, you will find it is India and Russia scared shitless

there is no point trying to earn china's trust given the way the nation has and continues treats it's own citizens. We have to encourage change in China and empower the citizens of China with the rise of unions.

and no, the US will still rule the world for another 50 years plus

Americans are in a panic over the rise of China, treat their own citizens little better than the Chinese do (read up on water quality in Flint Michigan sometime, or the government's response to hurricane Katrina), and as for the notion America will be the ruling the world in 50 years, the only way that can possibly happen is if they hold the rest of the world hostage under the threat of nuclear Armageddon - which I wouldn't put past those batshit-insane evangelical Christians either.

So yeah, let's try to force the Chinese to embrace unions while simultaneously doing everything possible to diminish their power in our own country, question their human rights record while trashing our own through treatment of asylum seekers, and demand their political system becomes more like our own because gosh I hear Aussies commenting all the time how wonderfully well ours is working. While we're at it we can also blame Chinese labor for rendering our manufacturing industries noncompetitive, even though it was greedy Australian CEOs who shifted all our production to China in the first place.

Unfortunately some people just can't grasp that its all moves on a global chessboard in a game played for power, money and control. All the rhetoric about human rights, communism, democracy, freedom, its all bullshit fed to the masses to provide some kind of flimsy moral justification but the cold hard truth is there is absolutely no morality in international politics. There never was, and never will be.

 

[Power Raid]

Americans are in a panic over the rise of China, treat their own citizens little better than the Chinese do (read up on water quality in Flint Michigan sometime, or the government's response to hurricane Katrina), and as for the notion America will be the ruling the world in 50 years, the only way that can possibly happen is if they hold the rest of the world hostage under the threat of nuclear Armageddon - which I wouldn't put past those batshit-insane evangelical Christians either.

So yeah, let's try to force the Chinese to embrace unions while simultaneously doing everything possible to diminish their power in our own country, question their human rights record while trashing our own through treatment of asylum seekers, and demand their political system becomes more like our own because gosh I hear Aussies commenting all the time how wonderfully well ours is working. While we're at it we can also blame Chinese labor for rendering our manufacturing industries noncompetitive, even though it was greedy Australian CEOs who shifted all our production to China in the first place.

Unfortunately some people just can't grasp that its all moves on a global chessboard in a game played for power, money and control. All the rhetoric about human rights, communism, democracy, freedom, its all bullshit fed to the masses to provide some kind of flimsy moral justification but the cold hard truth is there is absolutely no morality in international politics. There never was, and never will be.

out of interest, would you still support China if they made a claim they intend to rise to power by copying the US?

 

[A Cut Above]

out of interest, would you still support China if they made a claim they intend to rise to power by copying the US?

The Chinese would never be stupid enough to follow America's path of spending more than the rest of the world combined on its military, nor would they be foolish enough to announce it to the rest of the world if they did. Why on earth would they need to do that when they are already conquering the world through commerce?

To put it in a highly-sterotypical simplistic nutshell: The Chinese love money. Americans love guns & bombs. It should be obvious then that the Chinese & American empires will be extremely different from one other, and will require different thinking on Australia's part.

 

[Power Raid]

The Chinese would never be stupid enough to follow America's path of spending more than the rest of the world combined on its military, nor would they be foolish enough to announce it to the rest of the world if they did. Why on earth would they need to do that when they are already conquering the world through commerce?

To put it in a highly-sterotypical simplistic nutshell: The Chinese love money. Americans love guns & bombs. It should be obvious then that the Chinese & American empires will be extremely different from one other, and will require different thinking on Australia's part.

bookmark it

 

[Bombermania]

Our culture is s**t.

How.many billions have we spent bombing syria for Isis?

How many are so caught up with television and consumerism they have no idea about this easily researched issue?

It's all a matter of public record.

We have a homelessness issue
We have a mental health crisis
We have an obciety epidemic
We have severe environmental problems
We have every essential service but the military chronicly underfunded

We have a massive issue with the ruling class getting away with some sick s**t like child sex abuse

We are heavily in debt
Our politicians corrupt

Our science rotten to the core

Our justice system corrupt.


Our media corrupt

China invest thier money in important things

We give away to criminals then pay bankers interest on it.

No brainer

Fix our own s**t before attacking another race.

Nice rant.

Firstly I don't see anyone being nasty about the Chinese, they are fast becoming the dominate power within the Asian region so its worth discussing how Australia's relationship with China will develop.

I'm not sure who is feeding you some of the stuff in your rant but I wouldn't be taking much notice of them.

Homelessness is not a new issue, there have always been homeless people in Australia, homelessness is a complex issue and despite what some people might like to think, the homeless are not without help from one of the countless community service providers, but as I just mention it is a complex issue.

Mental health is not an Australian issue, it is a human issue, the biggest mistake governments made was to dismantle the old mental institutions.

Obesty is fixable for most people by following a proper diet and exercise program.

Yes the environment has issues but in many cases they are being responded too.

Essential services are not that underfunded, sure they could have more but they are hardly about to say nah we are fine we have plenty.

Debt levels are a worry but they are not out of control and can be managed.

There are few real examples of corruption.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

It's surprising how many small businesses in the Adelaide CBD are run by Chinese. I'm also surprised with how many don't employ locals. "RACIST".

it's their family
why wouldn't they employ their family and help their own family prosperity
lots of small businesses are family business

why call them racist?

 

[FireKrakouer]

Interesting hearing about Australia's feelings towards China, given the current hysteria about Cambodia being led by a dictator.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Nice rant.

Firstly I don't see anyone being nasty about the Chinese, they are fast becoming the dominate power within the Asian region so its worth discussing how Australia's relationship with China will develop.

I'm not sure who is feeding you some of the stuff in your rant but I wouldn't be taking much notice of them.

Homelessness is not a new issue, there have always been homeless people in Australia, homelessness is a complex issue and despite what some people might like to think, the homeless are not without help from one of the countless community service providers, but as I just mention it is a complex issue.

Mental health is not an Australian issue, it is a human issue, the biggest mistake governments made was to dismantle the old mental institutions.

Obesty is fixable for most people by following a proper diet and exercise program.

Yes the environment has issues but in many cases they are being responded too.

Essential services are not that underfunded, sure they could have more but they are hardly about to say nah we are fine we have plenty.

Debt levels are a worry but they are not out of control and can be managed.

There are few real examples of corruption.

Cool story bro haha

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Interesting hearing about Australia's feelings towards China, given the current hysteria about Cambodia being led by a dictator.

We destroyed Cambodia in the 70s . We supported pol pot so he would fight the Vietnamese.

We only fought the vetemese to keep China away because we're paranoid about socialism

What comes around goes around.

 

[Smeg Head]

Interesting hearing about Australia's feelings towards China, given the current hysteria about Cambodia being led by a dictator.

Same case in both countries, run by morally bankrupt people/parties.

 

[FireKrakouer]

Same case in both countries, run by morally bankrupt people/parties.

Yet we are being told to condemn and sanction one, but suck up to the other.

 

[CheapCharlie]

Bad news for Australia with China looking likely to decrease its need for Iron ore imports in future..

"The global iron ore market’s junk problem just got worse. China’s push to clamp down on pollution is giving extra impetus to the use of scrap in steel-making, strengthening a long-term trend that sees mills in the top producer progressively favor recycling over the raw material.

With tighter emission limits, improved furnace technology and output curbs, mills are using more scrap than ever before, according to Goh Kian Guan, chief investment officer at recycler Chiho Environmental Group Ltd.If a steelmaker is causing too much pollution, “there’ll be a chance they will be shut down, or asked to reduce production,” Goh said in an interview from Shanghai.

While China is the world’s top iron ore importer, taking cargoes from Australia and Brazil, mills in the country have been steadily raising the amount of scrap they use as the nation’s stock of junk increases, with more buildings torn down and appliances jettisoned. That drawn-out shift matches a pattern seen in more developed economies. But on top of the long-term trend, policy makers in Beijing have embarked on a great clean-up, especially targeting air pollution, and encouraging expanded use of scrap dovetails with that initiative."

 

[Admiral Byng]

Depends a bit on what sort of policies China decide to pursue. If they become an expansionist and militant power then no, we should side with whatever is the natural coalition of countries that aims to limit that expansion. If they decide to be benign and really just concentrate on peaceful trsde and prosperity then yes we should align with that. I get the feeling that there is a shift in China towards the former.

 

[nicky]

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-ha...-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii/5492051

So much for America being the "good guys".

He did not say that the US are good guys. He is saying as world dominators they are more palatable than leaders before and will more than likely be better than future leaders.

This is absolutely true despite all the horrible s**t they have done.