Society/Culture Should Australia Reinstate a The Death Penalty?

[blackcat]

how many Americans are killed that are later found to have been innocent?

sugggar

depends what definition of innocent you seek?

the dna exculpatory version
post-trial post-execution exculpatory ambiguity re: conflicting evidence brought to light
post-execution evidence of perjury by key witness
and other categories...


no doubt there have been dozens of examples in each category. But one definition of justice, is seeing the temporal trial played out with due respect to the trial process, and the appeals play out. Regardless if the verdict was incorrect, as long as the process prevails, one definition of justice will see justice being seen to be done.

on this last hypothetical, there have been significant numbers of executions that have gone forward, where strong conflicting evidence was tainting the factuality of the trial verdict, and subsequent execution. evidence come out in months/weeks prior to execution.

 

[blackcat]

Would think crime rates are more of a cultural thing. Respect for the law has declined in Australia during my lifetime and criminals here are growing bolder. We're becoming averse to smacking our children now, and averse to punishment generally. As a deterrent, the death penalty may not do much. I look at it from the perspective of how it might help the rest of us recover if the worst were put down. The most terrible crimes are like scars on a city and its people, they never truly heal.

or is the awareness and media propensity to hot-button these stories driven to new heights?

if maybe a confluence of both.

or... just the increase in population, and Today Tonight running with the whore Laura Norder for ratings.

I never liked whores for carnal knowledge, they seem to lack kindergarten logic skills. they have been crowded out. now, if you wanna score smack otoh

 

[blackcat]

The relevence to suicide bombers is intersting

wrt terrorism, the brah's MO, was taken straight from the recent islamic refugee to european capital metropolis... the last was berlin, but the first was somewhere in France. Does this brah have any native agency, or was this seed planted by the refugees from syria or morocco who end up in berlin or somewhere in france...

this guy reckons it has some r/ship to particle physics and heisenberg uncertainty principle, <i think>

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...pooky-action-is-closer-than-you-think/7192848

*if it is possible for me to think. highly doubtful i would say

 

[Crankyhawk]

depends what definition of innocent you seek?

the dna exculpatory version
post-trial post-execution exculpatory ambiguity re: conflicting evidence brought to light
post-execution evidence of perjury by key witness
and other categories...


no doubt there have been dozens of examples in each category. But one definition of justice, is seeing the temporal trial played out with due respect to the trial process, and the appeals play out. Regardless if the verdict was incorrect, as long as the process prevails, one definition of justice will see justice being seen to be done.

on this last hypothetical, there have been significant numbers of executions that have gone forward, where strong conflicting evidence was tainting the factuality of the trial verdict, and subsequent execution. evidence come out in months/weeks prior to execution.

But of specific cases where there is no possibility for doubt (multiple eye witnesses, smartphone recordings) such as Bourke St recently? There is no chance that we have the wrong person, all that remains is the decision is whether his crime and risk of reoffending is so high that deletion should be considered.

 

[Pessimistic]

But of specific cases where there is no possibility for doubt (multiple eye witnesses, smartphone recordings) such as Bourke St recently? There is no chance that we have the wrong person, all that remains is the decision is whether his crime and risk of reoffending is so high that deletion should be considered.

The thing is, pro death penalty never refer
To the sentence a murder. Which it undoubtedly is.

Use of words like deletion or capital punishment is a bit of a cop out

I suspect many of you wouldn't have the stomach to murder someone, even with state immunity someone else will do it right?

 

[blackcat]

But of specific cases where there is no possibility for doubt (multiple eye witnesses, smartphone recordings) such as Bourke St recently? There is no chance that we have the wrong person, all that remains is the decision is whether his crime and risk of reoffending is so high that deletion should be considered.

like MArtin Bryant. he is never to be a free human.

so what would be concerned if he was deleted?

I know the SJW answer is that our humanity, the free people's humanity would be infringed.

well, the actual polling is in favour of capital punishment, in Australia, so they may well choose to infringe on their own humanity. What about those who wish for no capital punishment, that is why the the australian constitution requires more than a mere 51% in a referendum.

I am neutral on this, it will never bother me one way or the other.

on an intellectually rigorous perspective, I think that capital punishment exists overwhelmingly as retribution, eye for eye, see Bush and Cheney, dont think their foray to Mesopotamia was not about getting some back
and getting some back, is intellectually daft. so for that reason, I would vote no. that is not a contradiction from me. I was saying, if this was not the overwhelming motive to change it, I could abstain. but, if they choose this daft reason, f em. gimme something rigorous, and I let them have their cake.

 

[Crankyhawk]

The thing is, pro death penalty never refer
To the sentence a murder. Which it undoubtedly is.

Use of words like deletion or capital punishment is a bit of a cop out

I suspect many of you wouldn't have the stomach to murder someone, even with state immunity someone else will do it right?

Well, I use the word deletion because I no longer consider this thing human. Therefore am choosing not to use murder. but I would quite easily pull the switch/ trigger/ administer the injection. In this singular case. And possibly others where the identity of the criminal is 100% known. It is the risk to the community of the criminal ever being released and doing the same thing.

 

[blackcat]

Well, I use the word deletion because I no longer consider this thing human. Therefore am choosing not to use murder. but I would quite easily pull the switch/ trigger/ administer the injection. In this singular case. And possibly others where the identity of the criminal is 100% known. It is the risk to the community of the criminal ever being released and doing the same thing.

how about joseph merrick. what if joseph merrick was not a binary.

 

[Present Not Past]

The Death Penalty will not stop murders.
It will only boost the ratings of TV stations that televise the events.

 

[Crankyhawk]

how about joseph merrick. what if joseph merrick was not a binary.

If Joseph merrick decided to run people over in a car and was captured on film, yep I would not consider him human any longer.

 

[Niximus]

Some people do deserve death, however it is my opinion that nobody should have the power to forcibly take the life of another against their will, when they pose no immediate danger, whether that person deserves it or not.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

The death penalty is an easy way out for a murderer suffering and rotting in jail for the rest of their lives is the way to go.

Watched this recently thought it was pretty good.

 

[Ruck Machine]

Should we bring back the death penalty in Australia?

Yes - Only for cases of multiple murder (3 or more deaths).

We should also bring back corporal punishment. A good whipping would sort out a lot of criminals.

 

[Colonial]

Bring back the cane as well.

Little brats have way to much power.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Yes - Only for cases of multiple murder (3 or more deaths).

We should also bring back corporal punishment. A good whipping would sort out a lot of criminals.

The bloke who ran over/killed people in the CBD is lucky Australia doesn't have the death penalty.

 

[chelseacarlton]

The death penalty is an easy way out for a murderer suffering and rotting in jail for the rest of their lives is the way to go.

Watched this recently thought it was pretty good.

So we keep paying for these below life's at over,I'm guesstimating here,100/200k per year for say,50/60 years?
5/12million $'s
A humane lethal injection under qualified controls would cost,I dunno,say 3/5k?
I know how I'd prefer to see my tax dollars dished out!

 

[Gough]

So we keep paying for these below life's at over,I'm guesstimating here,100/200k per year for say,50/60 years?
5/12million $'s
A humane lethal injection under qualified controls would cost,I dunno,say 3/5k?
I know how I'd prefer to see my tax dollars dished out!

Don't forget there is a long, and expensive appeals process to go through. I seem to remember reading that in the US it actually costs more to execute someone than hold them in jail for the rest of their life.

 

[Ruck Machine]

A humane lethal injection under qualified controls would cost,I dunno,say 3/5k?

How much does a bullet cost?

 

[chelseacarlton]

Don't forget there is a long, and expensive appeals process to go through. I seem to remember reading that in the US it actually costs more to execute someone than hold them in jail for the rest of their life.

That is America (* yeah) and their system though,it's all about money disguised as justice.
You're probably right Gough,I'd actually prefer to see inhumane methods used on this guy,damned human rights charters!

 

[chelseacarlton]

How much does a bullet cost?

Cupla bucks down at my local gun shop!

 

[Doc_]

Rope is cheaper. Can be reused many times.

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[Pie eyed]

But of specific cases where there is no possibility for doubt (multiple eye witnesses, smartphone recordings) such as Bourke St recently? There is no chance that we have the wrong person, all that remains is the decision is whether his crime and risk of reoffending is so high that deletion should be considered.

It is illegal to take a human life.
That has to start at the top.

If you can expect a footy player to be the beacon of decency to an entire society simply because he is payed to play surely the same expectation can be placed on our laws and law makers.

The Law should be the ultimate point of reference, otherwise...the message is that sometimes it is OK to murder.

 

[Toump Ass]

I'm generally against the death penalty, but I wouldn't mourn Dupas or Peter Scully being fed to a pack of rabid dogs.

If the death penalty were to be introduced, "beyond reasonable doubt" wouldn't suffice. There couldn't be any doubt whatsoever.

You could argue life without the possibility of parole is a kind of death sentence anyway.

 

[Crankyhawk]

It is illegal to take a human life.
That has to start at the top.

If you can expect a footy player to be the beacon of decency to an entire society simply because he is payed to play surely the same expectation can be placed on our laws and law makers.

The Law should be the ultimate point of reference, otherwise...the message is that sometimes it is OK to murder.

We are already taught that it is ok to kill (in war, in self defence). Here we are saying for community defence it is OK to kill.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Yeah, at face value it's at odds with modern leftist beliefs. I'm not sure how much currency it had among the rank and file, or whether it was more a plaything of the elites of the day. Understandable that it's rarely spoken about today.

Would think crime rates are more of a cultural thing. Respect for the law has declined in Australia during my lifetime and criminals here are growing bolder. We're becoming averse to smacking our children now, and averse to punishment generally. As a deterrent, the death penalty may not do much. I look at it from the perspective of how it might help the rest of us recover if the worst were put down. The most terrible crimes are like scars on a city and its people, they never truly heal.

On the bolded, killing the perpetrator won't remove the scars of their crimes though.