List Mgmt. Should I stay or should I go now? End of season list management discussion (now continued for 2020)

[Pessimistic]

I count 4 actually
1. Vickery
2. Patton
3. Sculley
4. O'Rourke

Those are 4 pretty big misses by anyone's estimation.

Hale, Lake, Bigboy and Frawley were all recruited before the time period I mentioned (2016 to 2020)

O rourke?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

This is complete hogwash.

we paid a fortune for a complete potato who we hoped we could turn around miraculously and nothing changed.

Complete waste of time and money. Shocking pick up.

How is it hogwash?
He had played 17 games in his last year at Richmond, as a part time ruck/forward.

We had Ceglar(ACL), Rough(Cancer) and Pittonett(noob) on the list with McEvoy. Hale had retired.

If we BigBoy went down, we had nothing in the cupboard. Vickery was the most experienced ruck/forward available, and although he was no world beater he was going to 5x better than anything we'd get from suburbia.

We all know the contract and lenght was set up so that he would walk to us without the need for a trade.

 

[Brishawk]

No idea, but the head of the AFL integrity unit was at Waverley on Friday.

Is that gill now? I thought the integrity unit was the first thing scrapped once COVID hit.

 

[Brant]

I count 4 actually
1. Vickery
2. Patton
3. Sculley
4. O'Rourke

Those are 4 pretty big misses by anyone's estimation.

Hale, Lake, Bigboy and Frawley were all recruited before the time period I mentioned (2016 to 2020)

I missed the first half of the conversation - are we looking at the performance of incoming trades of recent times?

Did Scrimshaw, Frost, Hendo or Ceglar count in the discussion or did they not fit the bill?

I'm guessing Wingard, Mitchell & JO'M have been talked about.

Impey?

 

[Flukey!]

I count 4 actually
1. Vickery
2. Patton
3. Sculley
4. O'Rourke

Those are 4 pretty big misses by anyone's estimation.

Hale, Lake, Bigboy and Frawley were all recruited before the time period I mentioned (2016 to 2020)

Vickery was a replacement.
We were a big guy down that year and needed a tall.
Thats the only reason he was brought in.

 

[Mercy Seat]

People seem to be forgetting Vickerys kick to Roughead which gave us the winning goal over the swans. Worth every penny!

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Mitchell, Impey, Scrimshaw, Hendo, Frost and Jaeger (hasn't been the superstar of the comp we wanted but has been an absolute bull for us). All best 22 locks.

Your negativity shines strong as always.

What you say about Jaeger is true and I do like him, but with what we gave up I'd have to say we are losing that trade at this point in time.

 

[HAWKSBESTEVA]

What you say about Jaeger is true and I do like him, but with what we gave up I'd have to say we are losing that trade at this point in time.

The picks we gave up for o’meara have turned into decent at best players. Hasn’t hurt us yet. They will never be as good as o’meara is currently.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

The picks we gave up for o’meara have turned into decent at best players. Hasn’t hurt us yet. They will never be as good as o’meara is currently.

I'm bullish on Hunter Clark who's still only 21 or 22. Then we have the other 3 assets we gave up, I'd have to actually search into who was selected around those picks.

 

[HAWKSBESTEVA]

I'm bullish on Hunter Clark who's still only 21 or 22. Then we have the other 3 assets we gave up, I'd have to actually search into who was selected around those picks.

Yeah I like Clark, but doesn’t look anything too special. Hasn’t shown anything elite like a bailey smith or Sam walsh etc

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Yeah I like Clark, but doesn’t look anything too special. Hasn’t shown anything elite like a bailey smith or Sam walsh etc

That kid is the pick of the bunch, thank * it wasn't him we missed out on.

 

[HAWKSBESTEVA]

That kid is the pick of the bunch, thank fu** it wasn't him we missed out on.

I wouldn’t of been able to sleep at night!

 

[Yardie]

I missed the first half of the conversation - are we looking at the performance of incoming trades of recent times?

Did Scrimshaw, Frost, Hendo or Ceglar count in the discussion or did they not fit the bill?

I'm guessing Wingard, Mitchell & JO'M have been talked about.

Impey?

None of those players can be included in the conversation as they don't fit the narrative.

 

[Turly]

What you say about Jaeger is true and I do like him, but with what we gave up I'd have to say we are losing that trade at this point in time.

So you completely ignore the rest of my post and only comment on Jaeger

Wowwwww.......

To be honest it is what I expected.

 

[Steven Tyler]

How is it hogwash?
He had played 17 games in his last year at Richmond, as a part time ruck/forward.

We had Ceglar(ACL), Rough(Cancer) and Pittonett(noob) on the list with McEvoy. Hale had retired.

If we BigBoy went down, we had nothing in the cupboard. Vickery was the most experienced ruck/forward available, and although he was no world beater he was going to 5x better than anything we'd get from suburbia.

We all know the contract and lenght was set up so that he would walk to us without the need for a trade.

We also had Jack Fitzpatrick dealing with concussion issues, as he was delisted and then rookied by us in 2017, Vickery’s first year at Hawthorn

 

[Hodgey09]

I'm bullish on Hunter Clark who's still only 21 or 22. Then we have the other 3 assets we gave up, I'd have to actually search into who was selected around those picks.

Could be wrong....but from memory picks from that deal eventually turned into Hunter Clark, Josh Battle and Ben Long.

Don't know about the other two but share your opinion of Clark.

 

[kazzooka]

To be fair O'Rourke was a pick 2 with injury history that wanted to come home and we were just coming off a Premiership. His highlights pre-draft are pretty good as a smooth mover and elite kick. Unfortunately his injuries robbed him of his speed and he just became pure vanilla. Not sure what happened to his kicking.

That draft was also a real crapshoot around that range. Household names like Blaine Boekhurst, Sam Durdin, Hugh Goddard, Jayden Laverde, Jarrod Gartlett, Daniel McKenzie, Pat McKenna were taken. Two of the better players (Heeney & Steele) were academy selections.

I must admit I have hindsight on my side but Jono is the one trade bust that I'm completely comfortable with.

Ironically, O'rourke's pre draft claim to fame was going head to head against O'meara and winning the day which saw him rise to 2.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Could be wrong....but from memory picks from that deal eventually turned into Hunter Clark, Josh Battle and Ben Long.

Don't know about the other two but share your opinion of Clark.

If True it's no good, Battle and Long would comfortably be best 22 players at Hawthorn.

 

[KermitJagger]

I'm bullish on Hunter Clark who's still only 21 or 22. Then we have the other 3 assets we gave up, I'd have to actually search into who was selected around those picks.

I never actually looked into it until now, but the 3 worthwhile picks we gave up to position ourselves for Jaeger ended up being:

1. Hunter Clark
2. Liam Ryan
3. Ben Long

Nothing to say we would have picked any of these 3 if available, but on balance it's looking like it'll end up a loss when the ledger is balanced in a few years time.

Edit: forgot Josh Battle too.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I never actually looked into it until now, but the 3 worthwhile picks we gave up to position ourselves for Jaeger ended up being:

1. Hunter Clark
2. Liam Ryan
3. Ben Long

Nothing to say we would have picked any of these 3 if available, but on balance it's looking like it'll end up a loss when the ledger is balanced in a few years time.

Edit: forgot Josh Battle too.

This bloke is probably the best small forward in the game as things stand, toss of the coin with Charlie Cameron.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I like Jaeger - but with hindsight I’d almost take Liam Ryan

1

Liam Ryan

Age

27

Ht

181cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.3

5star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.6

5star

alone over having picked him up. Would have made the loss of Cyril far easier to take.

 

[KermitJagger]

This bloke is probably the best small forward in the game as things stand, toss of the coin with Charlie Cameron.

He is, but doesn't seem like the type of bloke who would have stayed even if we did take him. Bear in mind he kicked 73 goals in the WAFL the year he was drafted and he still didn't get picked til the mid 20s and his fellow West Australian mature ager that year bailed on his club as soon as he possibly could.

Significant flight risk.

Life is full of twists and turns and you can't spend time lamenting what happened in the past. If other things had gone well that weren't out of our control we'd have likely won 4 in a row with Roughy in 2016, Cyril would still be playing solid football now and he'd have the company of Dayle Garlett tearing it up as he showed the promise to do.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I like Jaeger - but with hindsight I’d almost take Liam Ryan alone over having picked him up. Would have made the loss of Cyril far easier to take.

Yep.

JOM is a good midfielder but not the elite talent that he was likely going to be before injury slowed his progress. We lost out on the trade. There is no sugarcoating it. And given we had full disclosure over his injuries I am still a bit annoyed about what we gave up to get him in. And this isn't 20/20 hindsight, I said exactly the same thing at the time.

Scully and Patton were terrible choices but haven't really hurt us from a drafting point of view. They were speculative in nature given the picks we offloaded so as long as they are jettisoned at or earliest opportunity then no real harm has been done. But if they are kept and get games ahead of kids who need to develop then that is where we may lose out. Neither are good footballers. It's almost as though we were trying to do a Shaun Burgoyne all over again but overlooked the obvious fact that Burgoyne is some sort of freak of nature and 50 times as talented at JOM, Scully and Patton combined.

 

[Yardie]

I never actually looked into it until now, but the 3 worthwhile picks we gave up to position ourselves for Jaeger ended up being:

1. Hunter Clark
2. Liam Ryan
3. Ben Long

Nothing to say we would have picked any of these 3 if available, but on balance it's looking like it'll end up a loss when the ledger is balanced in a few years time.

Edit: forgot Josh Battle too.

We only got that draft pick from Carlton to help us get the O'Meara trade done. You have to look at the draft the year before and the picks we gave up (48,66, & 70) with pick 10 for the comparison.

10 Jack Bowes
48 Darcy Cameron
66 Luke Ryan
70 Fergus Greene

 

[H00t]

We only got that draft pick from Carlton to help us get the O'Meara trade done. You have to look at the draft the year before and the picks we gave up (48,66, & 70) with pick 10 for the comparison.

10 Jack Bowes
48 Darcy Cameron
66 Luke Ryan
70 Fergus Greene

That’s ignoring the st kilda trade where we gave up pick 7 (2017), 23 and 36 (2016) for pick 10 and 68. All because gc suns wanted a 2016 first rounder.

That trade was the one that sunk us and was why getting JOM was so costly the final trade with Gold Coast wasn’t actually that bad.

But the one with st kilda was one of the worst of all time