List Mgmt. Should I stay or should I go now? End of season list management discussion (now continued for 2020)

[HODGEYROAD]

Hodgey when you consider our mids are now:
Burgoyne 37/
Henderson(2) Smith McEvoy(8) 30-31/
Shiels(7) Scully Ceglar 28/
Mitchell Wingard O'Meara(3) 26/
Howe 24/
Glass Cousins Hanrahan 21/
Morrison Worpel(1) Jones 20 and probably a couple more good ones to come.

Isn't that a well balanced age profile to go forward with? (brackets are PCM rank)

Fwd and Back have their issues but I believe there's been more thought put in than just short term, especially as the threepeat really unbalanced our list, particularly midfield. The club took three trade periods to get in three class players who are now 26-ish

Hopefully this years draft really rectifies this problem, because with the obvious exception that is Worpedo none of those young blokes give me much confidence in regards to being valuable midfielders. Massive opportunity ahead with hopefully Finn and pick 11.

 

[tige19]

"oh by the way Tom Mitchell, Jaeger and Chad and you other insignificant ones, we know we said we'd be pushing for a flag ASAP when we sold you on the club, but we now want you to cool your jets until 22/23, cos we don't think were any chance 20/21"

Not that I don't respect you guys 'points', but if such as Gunston was traded in the period just gone, he would have been one of the best available. I don't see where the 'guns' which would improve the list would have come from

jags/Titch and Chad are 25-26, Gunno is 3 years older, those 3 will be at their best for another 4-5 years.. bringing in a player who can develop and help us long term may be more beneficial than a declining with age Gunno...That of course is not a guarantee, but neither is Gunno finding career and AA best form again is it?

I feel we needed to be a little bit bold and it felt we just didn’t do that, maybe we tried and failed? We certainly have had many swings at the stumps for Free Agents and missed out, but we normally do ok at the trade game, that’s where we make it up... not this year for mine.

In saying that, I am confusing we’ll be competitive and make finals, but also confident we don’t have the cattle to win a flag or make top 4.

 

[Pessimistic]

Didnt see any targets with more upside than gunner tbh. And he knows our systems

Anyway the club is bringing in players through the draft too.

 

[Pessimistic]

Hopefully this years draft really rectifies this problem, because with the obvious exception that is Worpedo none of those young blokes give me much confidence in regards to being valuable midfielders. Massive opportunity ahead with hopefully Finn and pick 11.

You answered your question. Its tweaks from now on. Look at the draft discussion. Theres no burning positional need, just draft the best available.

 

[KermitJagger]

jags/Titch and Chad are 25-26, Gunno is 3 years older, those 3 will be at their best for another 4-5 years.. bringing in a player who can develop and help us long term may be more beneficial than a declining with age Gunno...That of course is not a guarantee, but neither is Gunno finding career and AA best form again is it?

I feel we needed to be a little bit bold and it felt we just didn’t do that, maybe we tried and failed? We certainly have had many swings at the stumps for Free Agents and missed out, but we normally do ok at the trade game, that’s where we make it up... not this year for mine.

In saying that, I am confusing we’ll be competitive and make finals, but also confident we don’t have the cattle to win a flag or make top 4.

Jack Gunston was one of the younger players drafted in the 2009 draft. Titch and Chad were drafted in the 2011 draft. They're only two years the difference.

Hardly a glaring hole in our list management.

If you trade Gunston for assets you're making what could conceivably be a 4 person change in our 22 for the next year. That means getting 4 people up to speed on game plan, that means getting every other player used to the players we've brought in.

Sometimes less is more.

 

[tige19]

Jack Gunston was one of the younger players drafted in the 2009 draft. Titch and Chad were drafted in the 2011 draft. They're only two years the difference.

Hardly a glaring hole in our list management.

If you trade Gunston for assets you're making what could conceivably be a 4 person change in our 22 for the next year. That means getting 4 people up to speed on game plan, that means getting every other player used to the players we've brought in.

Sometimes less is more.

I would like to see Gunno re-invent himself, all things being equal and our forwards fit, I would like to see him moved to defence where our ball use will be hampered with Frost/Chip and Stratts... He can also play that really high half-forward or 6th mid role, either way something has to give.

 

[Brant]

I would like to see Gunno re-invent himself, all things being equal and our forwards fit, I would like to see him moved to defence where our ball use will be hampered with Frost/Chip and Stratts... He can also play that really high half-forward or 6th mid role, either way something has to give.

I think he'll spend a fair bit of time as the 6th mid this season - at least I hope he does. He'd be very difficult to match in that role.

 

[Sixpence]

His right, you know.

Nah, don't really know his right, or his left.

 

[burner1]

Reckon Gunston’s body is fairly banged up and will have to be managed (a bit like silk). While his best footy is up forward in the 50, may be shifted around the park to ease the physical load.

Don’t think we need him down back in a full time role with Sicily and scrim down there nor do I think his body can handle the bash and crash as a full time mid.

 

[PenAndPaper]

I would like to see Gunno re-invent himself, all things being equal and our forwards fit, I would like to see him moved to defence where our ball use will be hampered with Frost/Chip and Stratts... He can also play that really high half-forward or 6th mid role, either way something has to give.

You keep mentioning Stratts' ball use being bad which I don't understand. He consistently uses it well & even uses it well on his opposite foot.

 

[flinchfree]

You keep mentioning Stratts' ball use being bad which I don't understand. He consistently uses it well & even uses it well on his opposite foot.

Nah, he's pretty ordinary.
Of course like everyone who's a professional, has a Sherrin in his hands every single day, kicks it every single day, he will make kicks - some even on his left.
But he's ordinary, I'd say eeeeasily below average for a professional footy player, and on the move and looking downfield and needing to spot someone up, or put it to genuine advantage, or drop it over the first line of opposition into a pocket where a teammate is standing....reckon he's at best 2-3 out of 10.
He's safest trying to hoof it down the line. Even then he struggles to get it more than 45m downfield.

 

[tige19]

You keep mentioning Stratts' ball use being bad which I don't understand. He consistently uses it well & even uses it well on his opposite foot.

He kicks the ball no more than 15-20m and has no penetration in his kick, if he can't hit targets 15m away then he shouldn't be playing league footy... What was his metres gained average last year? He is a brilliant, lock down defender who can play on talls and smalls, but his ball use isn't his strength.

 

[KermitJagger]

You keep mentioning Stratts' ball use being bad which I don't understand. He consistently uses it well & even uses it well on his opposite foot.

I'm more confused about the concerns with Frawley's ball use.

It's Frawley's ball use under pressure that's a bit of a worry but in general his kicking has great penetration and is accurate. One of those things that has been spoken into existence.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Nah, he's pretty ordinary.
Of course like everyone who's a professional, has a Sherrin in his hands every single day, kicks it every single day, he will make kicks - some even on his left.
But he's ordinary, I'd say eeeeasily below average for a professional footy player, and on the move and looking downfield and needing to spot someone up, or put it to genuine advantage, or drop it over the first line of opposition into a pocket where a teammate is standing....reckon he's at best 2-3 out of 10.
He's safest trying to hoof it down the line. Even then he struggles to get it more than 45m downfield.

What Stratts does best is not bite off more than he can chew. It's why class ball users are perfect for the back half. Stratton always looks to Sicily, Burgoyne, Scrimshaw etc. as soon as he gets the ball.

 

[SSSSSS]

It’s pretty clear that the club feels, based on the back half of last year and the probable inclusions of Frost, Patton and a returning Mitchell, that we can match just about anyone on our day. The key to 2020 and any possible success is the sustaining of our top form and narrowing the considerable gap between our best and worst.

If we’re serious next season, we can’t be dropping games to the St. Kilda’s, and can’t be pushed all the way by a Carlton. We need to be putting these teams to the sword.

I’m of the belief that we are still far too reliant on everything going right to be at the pointy end of it next season, but equally I’d be happy with continued development from the Scrimshaw, Worpel, Hanrahan, Lewis types as well as the integration of the CJ, Walker, Jones types.

I think the hallmark of a great side is one that can still win games playing despite playing like s**t.
We aren't there yet. Can't grind out wins going at 90% like we used to.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Nah, he's pretty ordinary.
Of course like everyone who's a professional, has a Sherrin in his hands every single day, kicks it every single day, he will make kicks - some even on his left.
But he's ordinary, I'd say eeeeasily below average for a professional footy player, and on the move and looking downfield and needing to spot someone up, or put it to genuine advantage, or drop it over the first line of opposition into a pocket where a teammate is standing....reckon he's at best 2-3 out of 10.
He's safest trying to hoof it down the line. Even then he struggles to get it more than 45m downfield.

Don't understand the below average line at all, he's perfectly fine.

Being a good ball user is also not dependent on the distance you can kick. Hitting a target 25m away is just as useful as hitting a target 50m away...

 

[WWSD]

Is CJ now a standard rookie or is he going to be elevated to the senior list?

 

[Platten44]

Is CJ now a standard rookie or is he going to be elevated to the senior list?

Can be a Cat B rookie for one more year - basically a bonus player sitting outside the primary and rookie list.

 

[Davo-27]

Nah, he's pretty ordinary.
Of course like everyone who's a professional, has a Sherrin in his hands every single day, kicks it every single day, he will make kicks - some even on his left.
But he's ordinary, I'd say eeeeasily below average for a professional footy player, and on the move and looking downfield and needing to spot someone up, or put it to genuine advantage, or drop it over the first line of opposition into a pocket where a teammate is standing....reckon he's at best 2-3 out of 10.
He's safest trying to hoof it down the line. Even then he struggles to get it more than 45m downfield.

Stratton has a DE% of over 80% for his entire career, thats ELITE, you know better than 95% of the AFL, this comment is so far from the truth it belongs in the upside down...

 

[flinchfree]

Stratton has a DE% of over 80% for his entire career, thats ELITE, you know better than 95% of the AFL, this comment is so far from the truth it belongs in the upside down...

Now I know why I cringe every time I read your evaluation of young draft talent....
Elite disposal huh? Do you actually watch footy or just find stat sheets to write the dross you put out?

 

[Davo-27]

Now I know why I cringe every time I read your evaluation of young draft talent....
Elite disposal huh? Do you actually watch footy or just find stat sheets to write the dross you put out?

yea i watch Stratton play quality football, i also watch you type absolute rubbish, thats what i watch...

 

[Pessimistic]

How many days to draft again?

 

[CD Xbow]

I think the hallmark of a great side is one that can still win games playing despite playing like s**t.
We aren't there yet. Can't grind out wins going at 90% like we used to.

Agree, true top teams seldom go past 85-90% effort to win most matches during the season, leaves a bit in the tank when needed and an extra step up for finals. Might decrease wear and tear on the players over a long season. I will be interested if we will be able to put away some of the weak opposition easily next year, much better than losing to them, which we did a few times in 2019.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Now I know why I cringe every time I read your evaluation of young draft talent....
Elite disposal huh? Do you actually watch footy or just find stat sheets to write the dross you put out?

When the stats are clearly backing up the point that Stratton is a very good user of the footy then you have no leg to stand on. Pretty sure everyone on this forum would watch Hawthorn, some people are going to see things differently but that's where stats come in useful.

 

[dermott]

If anyone wants to see what an Elite user of the football looks like check out Darren Jarman’s highlights.

By the way, I have never needed to check his stats to gain confirmation.