List Mgmt. Should I stay or should I go now? End of season list management discussion (now continued for 2020)

[user33]

Mate Mitchell could have 5-7 years left, who knows if he is or isn't going to be.

Have you seen how many teams have attempted to completely bottom out just to become basket cases that fail to ever assemble a premiership contender.

A good leader, great work ethic and gun player. He is the last person we can afford to move on.

I’m not suggesting we completely bottom out and trade away all our players in the 25-30 range.

Look at Port, trades away Wingard for two young players and is now on top of the ladder. Doesnt have to be a complete bottom out.

Looking at our midfield, if it’s worpel, mitchell and O’Meara for the next 5 years then we aren’t competing for anything. I don’t think it’s the craziest thing to suggest that Mitchell would be the one to leave that mix.

 

[MrPremiership]

I’m not suggesting we completely bottom out and trade away all our players in the 25-30 range.

Look at Port, trades away Wingard for two young players and is now on top of the ladder. Doesnt have to be a complete bottom out.

Looking at our midfield, if it’s worpel, mitchell and O’Meara for the next 5 years then we aren’t competing for anything. I don’t think it’s the craziest thing to suggest that Mitchell would be the one to leave that mix.

We are likely to get 2 picks inside 24 plus Downie

That's 3 kids.....and list sizes likely to reduce....

Why do we need to trade assets away to get more kids?

 

[Spursfan]

We are likely to get 2 picks inside 24 plus Downie

That's 3 kids.....and list sizes likely to reduce....

Why do we need to trade assets away to get more kids?

Totally agree. We don't have many prime aged players as it is and people want to trade them away? Makes no sense

 

[The Offerman]

We are likely to get 2 picks inside 24 plus Downie

That's 3 kids.....and list sizes likely to reduce....

Why do we need to trade assets away to get more kids?

Hahahaha at thinking we're bringing in kids for AC's last tilt at a flag. We will trade everything. Absolutely bookmark it.

 

[MrPremiership]

Hahahaha at thinking we're bringing in kids for AC's last tilt at a flag. We will trade everything. Absolutely bookmark it.

He didn't last year, so why now?

 

[The Offerman]

He didn't last year, so why now?

Anomaly and we're forced into using one every few years now.

 

[MrPremiership]

Anomaly and we're forced into using one every few years now.

Completely disagree. We'll revisit after trade period.

 

[Hodgey 15]

Can't believe what i'm reading - trade Mitchell !?
A recent Brownlow medallist - severely......and i mean severely broke his leg , and people want to move him on.
Think we all need to take a deep breath and look at what we have got.
We don't know the impact of this COVID19 ; hub life ...etc...
I am all for improving the team but trading Mitchell is so wrong.
Mitchell is not on his own when it comes to players down on their form but lets not start ripping the heart out the team.

Bloody agree. Mitchell ain't going anywhere.
This is all starting to read like a game day thread. People just panicking and overreacting.

 

[Pessimistic]

Anomaly and we're forced into using one every few years now.

‘we kept this years Picks too. Why can’t people stay in the middle ground? It was geelong who were forced to keep a pick. The only team.

 

[The Offerman]

‘we kept this years Picks too. Why can’t people stay in the middle ground? It was geelong who were forced to keep a pick. The only team.

I never said we were forced into using pick 13, I said we ARE forced into using one every few years, which is accurate.

 

[Pessimistic]

Since 2010, new best 22 players have com equally in number from trade and developed draftees (in the latter there’s a delay and not all make it)

hawks do not favour one over the other. If we get a sub 6 pick it will be the first since 2006. We just don’t get them for some reason

no player from 2006 is still on the list. It’s a complete rebuild In fact punky stratts and Shiels are the only survivors from 2009

 

[Bugs1977]

Since 2010, new best 22 players have com equally in number from trade and developed draftees (in the latter there’s a delay and not all make it)

hawks do not favour one over the other. If we get a sub 6 pick it will be the first since 2006. We just don’t get them for some reason

The reason is because

 

[The Offerman]

Since 2010, new best 22 players have com equally in number from trade and developed draftees (in the latter there’s a delay and not all make it)

hawks do not favour one over the other. If we get a sub 6 pick it will be the first since 2006. We just don’t get them for some reason

no player from 2006 is still on the list. It’s a complete rebuild In fact punky stratts and Shiels are the only survivors from 2009

No player from 14 years ago is still on the list? Truly shocking, that one.

 

[Billyc]

Let me preface this by saying that it is not my opinion/believe that we should do this, but for a purely hypothetical discussion I'll say it:

Given how similar our 3 starting midfielders are, Mitchell, Worpel and Jaeger, would you trade Mitchell if someone offered you two first round picks?

Worpel's development has stalled with Mitchell back in the team and Jaeger is probably the only point of difference of the 3.

If you got two top end picks, adding to what is likely to be a top 5 pick this year, would you do it?

We have Finn, Jones and Cousins (among others) who are capable of providing midfield depth, but add in two top 10 mids, like Freo had with Brayshaw, Serong (and Cerra), we all of a sudden have an incredibly strong midfield unit within 2-3 years.

Then you use our other first round pick on a young tall to develop at either end.

Again, not my opinion, but thought I'd raise it for discussion!

I think people can have a discussion without it descending into anyone attacking players etc. The reason you trade players is to improve the list moving forward. We let Burton go because we thought we were well-stocked for half back flankers, not because we did not think he was good. The same consideration should be given to our current midfield mix.

Right now I think it is pretty clear a Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel (plus Shiels) midfield is a poor mix. They are all similar players: medium-sized, medium-paced accumulators. Adelaide have the exact same problem with Sloane and the Crouch brothers. Melbourne have had it in the last couple seasons with Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw (Petracca now giving them that point of difference). All of these guys are individually good players but they are very very similar and they all perform individually better when the others are not there.

Just as Adelaide do not need all 3 of Sloane and the Crouch brothers and Melbourne do not need all three of Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw, I don't think we need all 3 of Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel.

It is contentious because they are all popular and good players. But we should explore trading one. We don't need all 3 and they would appeal to other clubs with a different midfield mix.

My own view is that O'Meara has the least upside and the lowest ceiling of the three (Mitchell is returning from a serious injury and his ceiling is Brownlow medal level; and Worpel is only 21 and has won a B&W at 20).

 

[Bugs1977]

I think we can all agree that this cluster-f**k of a season is over so IMO the club is now at a crossroads on where to go from here. It seems like there was one final push to see if we could win a another flag with the likes Gunston, Smith, Breust, McEvoy etc but that door is now well and truly closed so you'd think the club will now change course on where we're headed. I know some here like to think that its the Alistair Clarkson Football Club and that he's the only one making decisions but I don't believe that and even though his voice is at the top when making these decisions I'm sure there's a wide group of individuals that confer, critique etc before final decisions are made.

Looking at our list below you will see that I have marked guys in red who are likely to retire either at seasons end or the one after. I've also marked in red guys that will probably be delisted. I've marked Smith in yellow because at this point in time its been said he he's likely to resign for 1 more season but who really knows what he will do until there's a contract in from of him. Either way he's going to be 32 next season but we all know he could easily play until his mid to late 30s if he so chooses.

The next batch of guys approaching their 30s is Breust, Ceglar, Shiels, Scully, Gunston so when I talk about a crossroads this is the age group of guys that could quickly fall off the cliff. I'm not saying we should trade any of them out but the I'd definitely be asking them if they are committed to some tough times and if not then it might be in their's and the clubs best interests to get some draft collateral for them. We could very well look towards adding some quality youngsters around the likes of that 26 years and under age group. It really sux to look at the numbers like this but its our reality and I'd really like to believe that those guys making the decisions I mentioned above along with Clarko are looking at it like this. Some hard calls have to be made and I don't think its a coincidence that over half of our list is out of contract either so IMO something is going on and we'll all know soon enough.

 

[TylerDurden]

I think we can all agree that this cluster-f**k of a season is over so IMO the club is now at a crossroads on where to go from here. It seems like there was one final push to see if we could win a another flag with the likes Gunston, Smith, Breust, McEvoy etc but that door is now well and truly closed so you'd think the club will now change course on where we're headed. I know some here like to think that its the Alistair Clarkson Football Club and that he's the only one making decisions but I don't believe that and even though his voice is at the top when making these decisions I'm sure there's a wide group of individuals that confer, critique etc before final decisions are made.

Looking at our list below you will see that I have marked guys in red who are likely to retire either at seasons end or the one after. I've also marked in red guys that will probably be delisted. I've marked Smith in yellow because at this point in time its been said he he's likely to resign for 1 more season but who really knows what he will do until there's a contract in from of him. Either way he's going to be 32 next season but we all know he could easily play until his mid to late 30s if he so chooses.

The next batch of guys approaching their 30s is Breust, Ceglar, Shiels, Scully, Gunston so when I talk about a crossroads this is the age group of guys that could quickly fall off the cliff. I'm not saying we should trade any of them out but the I'd definitely be asking them if they are committed to some tough times and if not then it might be in their's and the clubs best interests to get some draft collateral for them. We could very well look towards adding some quality youngsters around the likes of that 26 years and under age group. It really sux to look at the numbers like this but its our reality and I'd really like to believe that those guys making the decisions I mentioned above along with Clarko are looking at it like this. Some hard calls have to be made and I don't think its a coincidence that over half of our list is out of contract either so IMO something is going on and we'll all know soon enough.

View attachment 932845

Nailed it. Good analysis.

 

[The German Hunter]

I think people can have a discussion without it descending into anyone attacking players etc. The reason you trade players is to improve the list moving forward. We let Burton go because we thought we were well-stocked for half back flankers, not because we did not think he was good. The same consideration should be given to our current midfield mix.

Right now I think it is pretty clear a Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel (plus Shiels) midfield is a poor mix. They are all similar players: medium-sized, medium-paced accumulators. Adelaide have the exact same problem with Sloane and the Crouch brothers. Melbourne have had it in the last couple seasons with Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw (Petracca now giving them that point of difference). All of these guys are individually good players but they are very very similar and they all perform individually better when the others are not there.

Just as Adelaide do not need all 3 of Sloane and the Crouch brothers and Melbourne do not need all three of Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw, I don't think we need all 3 of Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel.

It is contentious because they are all popular and good players. But we should explore trading one. We don't need all 3 and they would appeal to other clubs with a different midfield mix.

My own view is that O'Meara has the least upside and the lowest ceiling of the three (Mitchell is returning from a serious injury and his ceiling is Brownlow medal level; and Worpel is only 21 and has won a B&W at 20).

Great post

 

[thejockey]

Trading out a Mitchell or Omera just makes a thin midfield even thinner .
If we go young , the young players will need protection.

Remember when Omera was out against Geelong , what happened in the middle ?
They bullied us and tore us apart .
We would get that treatment week in and week out from most sides if we traded one of those guys for a pick or two.

Its been a stinker of a season . By all means lets hit the draft and start playing the young guys .
That means we need depth in there , cant have a bunch kids trying to learn , compete and take heat in game in game out.

 

[WWSD]

I don’t think Wright needs to trade out any established players in their prime for more draft picks when we are about to lose a number of players over 30 over the next two years. That would be a massive list turnover and would do more bad than good.

IN
Pick 4
Pick 22
Pick 41
Pick 45
Pick 59
Pick 64

OUT
Burgoyne
Henderson
Puopolo
Stratton
Brooksby
Minchington

 

[Pessimistic]

No player from 14 years ago is still on the list? Truly shocking, that one.

That wasn’t the point

 

[TylerDurden]

Hahahaha at thinking we're bringing in kids for AC's last tilt at a flag. We will trade everything. Absolutely bookmark it.

We're not trading pick 4 mate. They'll burn the joint down.

 

[LMGjr]

We are likely to get 2 picks inside 24 plus Downie

That's 3 kids.....and list sizes likely to reduce....

Why do we need to trade assets away to get more kids?

Because people just like trades?

Even though we are not missing that many pieces.

 

[LMGjr]

I don’t think Wright needs to trade out any established players in their prime for more draft picks when we are about to lose a number of players over 30 over the next two years. That would be a massive list turnover and would do more bad than good.

IN
Pick 4
Pick 22
Pick 41
Pick 45
Pick 59
Pick 64

OUT
Burgoyne
Henderson
Puopolo
Stratton
Brooksby
Minchington

And another pre-season into Worpel, Impy, CJ, Finn, Day, Jeka, Kosi,......................

Don't be objective mate, it wrecks the joint.

 

[Davo-27]

Our midfield has been disappointing since 2017, i think that there's a few things we can do to strengthen our midfield

1. Play O'Meara on the outside, on a wing kicking goals like he was for Gold Coast back in the day, he can play inside and win clearances, but I think he would be of more value on the outside

2. Retire or Trade Liam Shiels, he was carried during the great times and when we have needed him since Sam Mitchell and Lewis left he has not stepped up to take any responsibility

3. A couple of years ago when Worpel first came to the club you could see T.Mitchell hated him, they have a strained working relationship, how to fix this?, either trade one or play one in another position or fix the hatred ruining their working relationship.

4. Draft a quality midfielder who makes good decisions and uses the ball well, who also has some pace and takes on the game

5. Give Finn Maginness a shot, don't use dumb excuses as none of our midfielders run defensively, then try out Harry Jones or Daniel Howe, Howe is out of favour and is slow, but he has good de% and is aggressive, something we lack, we could do worse than give him a second chance.

6. Play Wingard in the midfield every game, playing him exclusively forward is really really dumb.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

3. A couple of years ago when Worpel first came to the club you could see T.Mitchell hated him

You could?